Germany with kids, rail or drive?

Driving would make everything more convenient and in your case probably less expensive than the train unless kids under a certain age are free or discounted (maybe only certain trains and times). You might find an excursion round trip train ride to a special location to be fun. It might be better to use a tour to such places as the tourist Castles because they would guarantee tickets. There are lodgings that can serve a family your size in the towns with tourist class hotels and most resort areas: rental apartments (most require more than one night) or motel style or hostel style B&Bs. Have your European friends make recommendations for the Castles available. If there are special festivals in your planned locations you need reservations. One advantage with driving yourself you can drive a few miles further to find accommodations. Bon Voyage.

A couple of questions for you. Have you been to the two German relatives cities before as a family? Have you been to Germany at Christmas time before when there are wonderful, family friendly Christmas markets going on?

How old are your other two children? Train tickets can be free or half price for certain ages. There are also group tickets in specific regions for up to 5 people traveling together.

Personally, your itinerary is too far flung with 4-5 hour driving/train times between each days destination. Trying to move 7 people along just to arrive without time to really see anything would not be something I’d try. Also darkness comes early in Germany at that time of year.

A more sane itinerary might be to plot some locations more closely aligned with your 2 relatives’ locations and move from north to east and just see wonderful places between these two points at Christmas time.

Mona - good questions and suggestions. Family/Friends are in Jena and Rahden but we would most like to see the south of Germany, an area I have never been and my husband has found memories of, hence the loop itinerary. That said, we did the Oregon Trail this summer from Independence to Oregon in a week, following this same sort of plan suggested for Germany where we drove 3-6 hours a day and saw sights along the way. We weren't looking for relaxing but it was very fun and educational (we homeschool). Kids are 14, 12, 9, 6 and 1, so most are mobile and actually helpful. I thought I saw one note that kids under 15 travel free on the train in Germany with an adult. That would make a big difference to use but I find the websites confusing and haven't figured out if that's true yet.

Sorry, but I cannot resist giving advice you did not ask for: Of course you can do such a trip in theory, but why would you want to? You are asking whether to spend 5 days in a car or in a train, interrupted by a few hours of sightseeing. There are good sights all over the country - so I do not think that Rothenburg, Neuschwanstein or Lichtenstein makes sense for your trip. If you are looking for a picturesque town, consider one north of Frankfurt - perhaps Marburg, or somewhere in the Harz mountains. Or if you can extend your stay in Hamburg, do so, and consider a day trip to Lübeck - as every change of hotel eats a lot of your precious time. If you are willing to change your itinerary, I am sure you will get good suggestions here.
Now, let's get to your questions:
1) Depends on the weather - usually, the main roads are cleared of snow pretty quickly if there is snow. There might not be in December, but you never know. If you happen to encounter sudden black ice conditions, roads might be blocked for hours due to accidents. But that is quite unlikely. You should be okay with driving at night, though - days are short in December. Personally, I consider trains as much more comfortable - but then, I have never had five kids in tow. Use www.bahn.com to check for connections and prices.
2) With your original itinerary: No way. Hamburg to Jena is fine, and so is Frankfurt to Minden via Cologne. But Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein are in remote locations. There is no fast way to get there, and certainly not by train.
3) In the cities: Public transport; in some cases, the trip to your hotel is included in the train ticket. Otherwise, group day tickets are offered in most places. Otherwise: Two taxis. Uber does not operate the way you might know from the US.
4) No, as I suggest to skip both Bavaria and the Black Forest.
5) There is not that much to experience in my opinion. The day is usually celebrated within the families, if at all (there might be regional differences, though - maybe someone else can chime in).

Just a hint: the name of the town is Rothenburg (ob der Tauber), not Rottenburg. Many search engines and the Bahn website won't recognize Rottenburg as the place you want to go.

Also, the Rhein flows DOWN from the Black Forest to Frankfurt to Cologne. It's up on the map, but down the river.

You say it is a 2½ week trip with 5 major days of travel. Right? And you would rent the van at $1000+/week, or more than $2500, or $500+ per travel day (and that's only rental, gas will be more). Assuming all of the children are the children or grandchildren of one of the adults, they will travel for free, so you really have tickets for 3 adults. $500 per day will cover 3 adults even at full fare, and if you get Savings Fare tickets, you will save really big vs the van.

Considering this is in December and snow is possible, I think using the trains would be prudent. Also, considering that train travel like this is next to impossible in this country, this could be a unique experience for the kids, one they will remember for a life time.

As for Rothenburg, many people like to stay in the old town, inside the walls, but that is a pedestrian zone and most parking and the trian station is outside, so you could have a walk of, say, a half mile with luggage. On my last trip, I stayed outside the old town, about a ¼ mile from the station, and walked into town hands free.

Take a look at the German rail website and click on all the rules and regulations. You can buy early for the best price. Ages of children for discounts and free fares are spelled out. Types of trains you can ride on are listed, ICE/IC are date specific. Regional trains (RE) are not. No cancellation, etc.

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/germany/super-saver-fare.shtml?dbkanal_007=L04_S02_D002_KIN0059_FLYOUT-ANGEBOTE-SSP_LZ01

The 2.5 weeks would be a week with family in Denmark, five days of driving and sightseeing (we count driving time as sight seeing too since we love to look out windows and see the countryside flow by), followed by 4 days or so with friends in Germany before heading back to Denmark for another 3-4 days before we fly out. So we are getting our stay and experience time on either end of this speedy itinerary. Mona and Kris - thank you for the train info. Kids 14 and under do look like they travel free, so we would possibly only pay for three adults. Is there any easy way to get to Rothenburg by public transportation? That's the one place we would like to go.
Thanks!

Is there any easy way to get to Rothenburg by public transportation?

Rothenburg has a train station connected to the rest of the German Rail network. The station is at the end of a spur line from Steinach, which is on a main line.

Look up Rothenburg on Google maps. It's about a half mile walk from the train station into town, and there are places to stay near the station, so you can minimize your walking with luggage.

This looks exhausting. Especially with children. You have only 4 or 5 days and want to see the few places every American knows and visits... Rhine, Rothenburg, Neuschwanstein, Black Forest.... which sadly are at the other end of the country. You waste precious time on the road, and miss many beautiful sites along the way.
It would make much more sense to concentrate on Northern Germany. Travel less, see more. For example: you want castles? On the way from Hamburg to Jena you miss this one, and close to Jena is this one. Fairytale town like Rothenburg? See Quedlinburg instead, between Hamburg (or Minden) and Jena. That's actually a World Heritage Site! Gothic cathedral? Halberstadt (and just 30min away from Quedlinburg).

See here:
Highlights of Germany

As you can see, the area between Hamburg, Minden and Jena is packed with sights.

Hamburg to Jena is fine, and so is Frankfurt to Minden via Cologne. But Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein are in remote locations.

While I agree that the OP would loose way to much time in relocating, the above statement is not entirely exact. Hamburg to Jena by is approx. 4:30, but the fastest connection from Jena to Rothenburg is 3:42 (4:35 when using exclusively regional trains). I'd would make Rothenburg the southernmost point of the journey, since there is a large choice of castles along the Rhine.

Children up to 14yo would travel for free on the train. And a car is an hindrance in maior cities.

Thanks for your reply, Martin. Again though - travel time isn't a 'waste' to us as we get to see what Germany's landscape is like, probably talk with people on the train, and see a lot of Germany in a short time. We actually are going to be in Minden area for 4 days or so and will see some of the sights there so if you have any suggestions, those would be welcome. When I do Chemistry with my kids for the first time in 3rd grade, we don't talk equations but just dip into the things that are interesting about that science. Then when they come back to it in 7th and 11th grade, they are excited to do Chemistry because they remember the fun things they did before. I guess that's what I'm looking for in this trip - a dip into an interesting country with some more in depth time with our friends in Minden area at the end. Thanks for all the input though - this gives me a lot to think on. Our course definitely isn't set yet but I am aware that this would be a challenging time frame. We are all okay with that. I'm more interested in details of how to get from one place to another and suggestions on interesting and affordable places to live, particularly places that accommodate our whole family (8 total). Thanks!

Martin - thanks too for the links - great suggestions. I will definitely look into them. Is Quedlinberg a walled town? That was part of the appeal to us as an historical experience, to be able to walk the walls and look out for invaders.... :-)

Hamburg to Jena by is approx. 4:30, but the fastest connection from Jena to Rothenburg is 3:42 (4:35 when using exclusively regional trains)

You have a point there, but looking for connections throughout the day, it seems it is usually 4:12 with 4 changes, or 5:12 with 3 changes - while there are regular connections from Hamburg to Jena with just one change of trains. And moving on from Rothenburg to Frankfurt takes 2:30, with two changes.

Quedlinburg is simply stunning. I don't remember a walkable wall, but it has a huge historic area, a castle, an historic cathedral with a very impressive treasury (Google for American connection--interesting lesson in both 20th century history and ethics) and even a modern-art gallery. I believe the tourist office runs English-language tours; if the timing doesn't work for you, you can rent an audio guide for the city.

I've been to Rothenburg, too, and I'd choose Quedlinburg, hands down, even if the two destinations were equally convenient to the rest of my itinerary. One thing I'm not going to tell you is that Quedlinburg is non-touristy. That would be a lie. I'm sure it's no worse than present-day Rothenburg, though.

Again though - travel time isn't a 'waste' to us as we get to see what Germany's landscape is like, probably talk with people on the train, and see a lot of Germany in a short time.

Just to stress this once more: I don't think you will see a lot when you travel. Take, for example, Dec 6th in Hamburg: Sunrise 08:20, sunset 16:01. If you want to have some daylight at your destinations, travel will mostly have to be in total darkness.

My own experience has been that a superhighway is a superhighway. Each nice town is 15 minutes from the exit, plus 15 minutes to find a garage and thread the needle of narrow aisles and stalls. The Rhine is much prettier from a boat, but the best section is quite short, from Bingen to Boppard.

Cologne is a great place for kids, but they will enjoy the Greco-Roman museum, the underground Roman remains, or the Applied Arts museum maybe more than the famous Dom.

I had the Karl Zeiss museum in Jena on my list but cut it to go to Quedlinburg. Erfurt and maybe the schloss in Gotha or the Wartburg in Eisenach might please the kids. Leipzig is very nice and its connections from Bach to the fall of East Germany are great educational lessons. UNESCO WHS Dessau-Worlirz, Dresden, Goerlitz, are all nice but CANNOT be adequately seen on a day when you need six hours on the road to achieve your itinerary. We stayed three nights in Dresden and three on Weimar. Are the older kids ready for Buchenwald?

Edit: Spelling correction.

or the Wurzburg in Eisenach

You meant, perhaps, the Wartburg in Eiesenach.

I think it will be a tight fit in a van with 8 people plus luggage. You would probably want a stroller also for your youngest.

Drive. Normally I would say rail without question. The sheer number of people to get on and off the train would be stressful. One of the adults would have their hands full with the 1 year old and next youngest. The other adult and 14 year old would need to manage luggage and the other two children. All of this while trying to make connections and keeping from blocking others from making theirs. If you need to stop for a travel break, the car is much more user friendly and flexible.

You have succumbed to a temptation we all struggle with, trying to see too much, too fast. Good luck to you.

If you want to go to lichtenstein castle, the you need to use a car since it is next to impossible to get to by public transportation.

If you take this trip, be sure to report back ( on this same post ) to let us know how it went.

"It would make much more sense to concentrate on Northern Germany."
Martin is spot on. Hate to be so blunt, but the itinerary borders on absurd IMHO. "Dipping" is a metaphor that doesn't work. "Skipping" is more accurate. And "Dippy" would be an appropriate descriptor for this 5-day travel plan. Northern Germany offers a lot of interesting destinations and variety in spite of your assumptions to the contrary.

This itinerary is giving me a panic attack.

I don't know how familiar you are with traveling in Germany, but simply put, this itinerary isn't sane. I wouldn't do it with just myself and my husband and we're experienced travelers here. Travel here, by car in particular, is not nearly as easy as road tripping in the US and the scenery from the Autobahn in December will be bleak. You don't see a lot of sights from the autobahn because it doesn't go through the charming areas. Also you're visiting THIS December? I've had anxiety dreams less scary than this.

That said, if you insist in doing this itinerary, I'd probably chose train, because it will probably be cheaper in the end, and you will avoid traffic and potentially poor road conditions. Train travel is far more relaxing.

But I would listen to the very smart advice you're being given by others here, frankly.

Thanks for all the input. We've decided to rent a van and see what we can see. We did 2000+ miles in 5 days on the Oregon Trail this summer, camping at night and seeing at least one museum a day. It was a whirlwind but we didn't have a choice to make it longer. It's a memory my kids will hold onto for their lifetime. I'm looking into some of the suggestions now and hopefully we'll come up with a manageable but broad trip that will let us see a lot of Germany. I'll post again when we return from our trip!

Rebekah,

if you decide to rent a car it needs to be a 9-seater. There are not many of those vans around, so you need to check early with the car rental companies.

In addition, you need special children's seats for your 3 youngest children. You may want to check with the car rental company if they can lend you some.

This may be useful: On a Family Road Trip Through Germany: Fairy Tales, Castles and Cuckoo Clocks

Years after a magical solo trip through the Black Forest and beyond, the writer returns with her family. Would the magic hold up with three medium-size children?
Fifteen years later, I do (have a family), and the plan was to replicate, as closely as possible, my original itinerary together, a family of five. Would the magic hold up and perhaps acquire extra fairy dust in the company of three medium-size children? Was the timing right, or were we too late?

Driving has been always better for me (especially in winter). Rail roads could be considered in case you would like to save some costs.

Hi,

If you're into history, specifically on Napoleon and Prussian history, I would suggest seeing the "1806 Museum" since you're visiting friends/family in Jena. A couple of years ago I did a day trip to Jena from Berlin but didn't get out to the "1806 Museum."...obviously due to the time factor, and it's much easier with a car. Also, I would suggest the famous Zeiss museum if you're interested in optics.

Good that you're going to Minden, a very nice town, Minden an der Weser. I've been a couple of times as day trips and overnight visits. The Zentrum is scenic with its half timbered houses, only one of the attractions this town as to offer and other historic sights. I would suggest too Porta Westfalica since you're there.

Hi,

If you're taking the ICE train Hamburg Hbf to Jena Paradis, you have to change in Berlin Hbf anyway from which you can take the ICE to Lutherstadt Wittenberg, which is that train's first stop.

Regarding #1 and 2: How much driving will your family/friends in Jena do for trip, ie get you from place to place nearby? What you listed you can access by train. I took the trains to Minden, the taxi (the second time) to Porta Westfalica, and the train to Jena, also to Lutherstadt Wittenberg, they were only different trips. But had I been driven from Jena Hbf out to the "1806 Museum," that would have been a lot more convenient and a time saver. Both these two towns do get visitors. In the Altstadt in Minden you'll see only German tourists. I've been to Minden three times solo visits, only saw Germans. Jena I was only once there, a few hours in the Zentrum, saw very few tourists...only German.

On traveling with the children ...I've only experience being in Europe with a single child, never mind 5. That was twice with my grandson on his first trip at almost 5, ie 2 months before he turned 5, and the second time at 10, again a month shy of his becoming 11. He was a great trooper, both times only in France, obviously Paris, up north plus the southwest.

Transportation-wise we took the trains, the Metro, had a rental car in the southwest, took the taxi and did a ton of walking too.

If you say your kids are great troopers, they most certainly will be for this trip since they are used to it.

Hi Rebekah,

I hope you will see this before your trip.
Hamburg:
you can now buy tickets for the Miniatur Wunderland online. I strongly recommend that if possible you do that - the website is in English, and you can preview different days to see how long the wait times are. (Sunday much busier than Monday, for example). It is a very popular place (for a good reason!), so wait times can be over an hour!
I also recommend sausage dinner (and punch) at the Christmas market in front of city hall (Rathaus), where the “flying Santa” will appear at 4, 6, and 8 pm.

Rothenburg:
We stayed at the “Hotel Reichsküchenmeister“ right in the center. Even if you don’t stay there, I recommend having a meal there (make reservations), food and wine were great. In the main dining room is a large exhibit of toy tin soldiers in different battle settings, all in historic uniforms - might be interesting for your kids. The night watchman tour that Rick recommends was very much worth it, lots of kids were on the tour (in English). Also the “Handwerkerhaus”, a small house furnished the way different craftman families used to live.
St. Nikolaus Day: the evening before, kids set their boots by the front door, and if they have been “good”, they will be filled with fruit and chocolates the next morning (if not, there will be bits of coal or potato peel, google “Krampus” or “Knecht Ruprecht”). You could inquire whether your hotel does anything special for children on the morning of the 6th - but in general it is not a very public celebration. There will be a Christmas market in Rothenburg too, of course...so your stay will hopefully be a magical experience anyway.

And as you are driving, stopping at the Autobahnraststätte (rest stops for food) right along the free way will give you plenty of cultural experience. I remember how our kids enjoyed exploring a supermarket in Italy, trying to decipher the labels on the yoghurt containers.
Good luck and enjoy your trip!