Germany supposed itinerary (edited again)

Berlin part looks good and possible.

Potsdam palaces are worth the short day trip - nothing against Charlottenburg Palace - may be incluse Museum Barberini.

Are you aware of this Cranach collection?

In August higher temperatures can occur in Berlin (days 35°C, nights over 20°C).
September is well visited because of IFA fair at beginning of month and Marathon at end of month (most expensive hotel prices). Also various other events in this month.
School summer vacations end end of August this year - so Berlin will be back in full business from September on.

Event tip for museum fans (Aug 24 2024): https://www.berlin.de/en/events/2091757-2842498-long-night-of-museums.en.html

It’s a very doable go-go itinerary. It’s well thought out, but it’s a LOT of traveling around from place to place in 2 weeks. It’s the kind of itinerary I would have loved in my 20s. You are ticking off a lot of Germany Bucket List items in a short time and you’re doing it fairly efficiently. That said; if it were me, I’d slow down. But again, that’s me in my 50s talking.

Specific to your questions….I might spend a second night in Rothenburg. That allows you to stop and smell the roses along the way (Würzburg, Bad Mergentheim parks, etc) without rushing to Rothenburg for the 8pm Night Watchman’s Tour. Also, Evenings in Rothenburg after the tour busses have left with their day trippers is pretty cool. OTOH, Rothenburg is a bit of a kitschy, touristy theme park. It’s charming and interesting, but it’s got a healthy dose of Renaissance Faire flavor.

In general, I do think you’re rushing through this really awesome car-friendly Romantic Road part of your trip. Augsburg is steeped in history. If Jewish Shoah sites are important, you’ll pass the European Holocaust Memorial near Landsberg am Lech. There’s lots more I’m glossing over. I always thought Harburg would make a nice overnight stop as an alternative to Rothenburg.

I like the idea of adding a day or two. I just probably wouldn’t add it to Munich or Berlin. I do think your overnight in Frankfurt is a great idea; more for jet lag adjustment reasons than any particular sightseeing.

Again, it’s a good itinerary as is….. much better thought out than 90% of them.

Sunday: Pick up rental car. Follow Romantische Straße/ Romantic Road. Drive to Rothenberg ob der Taube...

You might want to consider this possibility, or at least some of it.

Drive from Frankfurt to Aschaffenburg. Several highlights include the palace, several really nice gardens, and Pompeganum to list a few.

Then drive the old road from there to Wurzburg with a stop at Mespelbrunn Castle. Fairy tale place with a moat that has been in the same family for hundreds of years.

In Wurzburg the Prince Bishop's Residenze is not to be missed. From there it's a short drive to R'burg.

You can google all three of the above and see if they hold any interest for you.

Used to live in the area and visited all three many times.

Thanks for your input.

If I was going to make time for one of these towns, which one would you pick:

The town of Aschaffenberg / the Schloss Johannisburg, and possibly the Pompeganum; apparently not "good enough" to be listed in my guidebooks, or

Würzberg / the Residenz, Festung Marienberg, possibly the small museums and/or or whatever else I fit in.

??

Then would it be best to sleep in one of these towns and drive to Rothenberg the next morning, spending one night in Rothenberg, or drive to Rothenberg arriving in the evening, spending 2 nights in Rothenberg?

If you are coming here that last weekend in Aug. the Museums Ufer Fest is happening. You get a button for 7-8€ and then you get in all the museums for the whole weekend. Visiting both the Judengasse Museum and the Jewish Museum are excellent choices.

These are the events happening in Frankfurt in Aug.
Main Fest, Frankfurt – 2-5.08

CSD Fest, Frankfurt – 8-11.08
Bernemer Kerb, Frankfurt Bornheim – 9-14.08
Apfelwein Fest, Frankfurt Roßmarkt – 9-18.08
Museums Riverbank Fest, Frankfurt – 23-25.08
Rheingauer Wine Fest, Frankfurt Fressgasse – 28.08-6.09

Mike, having lived and worked in both places, if I could only visit one, it would be Wurzburg. And I'd try to spend at least one night there, and one night in Rothenburg. If you visit the Prince Bishop's Residence, be sure to visit the small chapel. As much as I dislike the word, it is truly awsome! But easy to overlook and miss if you don't know about it. Hope this helps.

I rewrote my itinerary. Here's a summary minus most specific museums. I have a fuller version listing sites. Yeah I know I might not get to every sight or museum I listed. Does this look logistically doable?

Friday: Flights from Detroit to Frankfurt am Main. Night 0 on the plane.
Saturday: Arrive in Frankfurt am Main about 7-9am. Train to Mainz. Sleep in Mainz. 1st night
Sunday: Trains to Würzberg. Sleep in Wurzberg, 2nd night
Monday: Pick up rental car in Würzberg. Drive to Rothenberg ob der Taube. Sleep in Rothenberg ob der Taube. 3rd night
Tuesday: Drive to Füssen. Sleep in Füssen. 4th night
Wednesday: Castles. 5th night, 2nd night in Füssen
Thursday: Drive to Munich. Return the rental car. 6th night, 1st night in Munich
Friday: Dachau concentration camp site. 7th night, 2nd night in Munich
Saturday: 8th night, 3rd night in Munich
Sunday: Schloss Nymphenburg (9-6). Other stuff and/or above museums not seen yet. 9th night, 4th night in Munich
Monday: Train to Berlin. 10th night, 1st night in Berlin
Tuesday: 11th night, 2nd night in Berlin
Wednesday: 12th night, 3rd night in Berlin
Thursday: 13th night, 4th night in Berlin
Friday: Charlottenburg Palace? (10-5:30); Schaet-Gerstenberg Collection (surrealist art, 11-6)? OR Palaces in Potsdam? 14th night, 5th night in Berlin.
Saturday: 15th night, 6th night in Berlin
Sunday: Flights back to Detroit.

Looks good to me

Question, why are you going to Mainz if you want to see the museums in Frankfurt? Plus it is in the opposite direction from Würzburg. I like Mainz, but all of your other posts indicated you wanted to see things in Frankfurt?

Hi Mike. As Jo points out, Mainz takes you to the WEST when Würzburg (your first real destination, right?) and Bavaria (where you plan to stay through Night #9) lies to the EAST. If Mainz is an important destination for sightseeing/museums, OK, but if you just want a hotel night, don't go there and then backtrack the next day.

Day 1: You arrive pretty early at FRA. If you have your eyes on Würzburg, why not just take the train there? You could easily hop on a regional train at FRA at 9 or 10 am and be in Würzburg by lunch time. No advance-purchase is needed for these train journeys, and you'll have all kinds of time left that day to sightsee and walk off any jet-lag you might have. FRA > Würzburg train options:

a) 9:00 - 11:21
b) 10:00 - 12:21

I took a longer look at the first week of your itinerary and will offer some suggestions (which include travel to W'burg on Day 1.)

Besides Rothenburg, there are some very good places near Würzburg that would probably be of strong interest to someone with a strong draw to sights and museums. You would not have time for all of them. However, a little more time in this area is possible... The plan below eliminates the one-night stays and adds a night to Munich...

Saturday: afternoon/evening/night #1 in Würzburg.

Sunday: day trip to Bamberg (9:39 - 10:32 for example) Old-world destination with medieval town center, UNESCO World Heritage status. 2nd night in Würzburg.

Monday: morning in Würzburg; train to Rothenburg (70 minutes) for 2 nights. Afternoon, evening, and night in R'burg.

Tuesday: Outing by train (9:05 - 9:55 for example) to Bad Windsheim for the excellent Franconian Open-Land Museum. Return to R'burg in afternoon. 2nd night in Rothenburg.

Wednesday: Train to Dachau (9:05 - 12:22.) Lunch, stow bags in locker; shuttle bus to Dachau KZ camp, return by shuttle for bags. Train to Munich for evening. 1st night in Munich.

Thursday through Sunday: Nights #2 - 5 in Munich. You used your "castles" day on Wednesday seeing Dachau. So you can now use your Thursday on a day trip by train (or by tour) to Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau.

My thinking behind these changes...

• IME by car and by Romantic Road bus... The Romantic Road drive is not so scenic or romantic. The RR name draws in a lot of tourism and the towns are nice, but not as impressive as Rothenburg. The RR is a "shiny object" for tourist-squirrels, one that blinds them to several of Bavaria's true gems. I believe you will really enjoy Bamberg and the Franconian Open-Land Museum which I've suggested instead. Besides some great sightseeing, Bamberg has some wonderful pubs too (another reason the train is best for an outing here.)

• Eliminating the car will save you a lot of expense and hassle on this routing. Everything I've suggested is accessible by regional train and the monthly Deutschland-Ticket.

Thanks for all your input. I only get ten days paid vacation per year; which resets on my anniversary, about June 17. My work is closed weekends and major US holidays which means I could make a trip as long as about 16 days including travel there and back. As of now I am thinking of including Berlin, Munich and Dachau camp as a day-trip, Füssen for mountain scenery and castles (Yeah I realize there is a way to squeeze in the castles as a day-trip from Munich), Rothenberg ob der Taube (maybe for irrational reasons, my mother's maiden name is Rothenberg); and if I add in a 5th place, Würzburg (Yeah Russ is right that Bamberg would be good stop too but I probably will sacrifice it because there isn't time for everything that looks appealing and Rick Steves has a section on Würzburg but didn't include Bamberg; Bamberg is good enough to get 4-page section in Fodor's Essential Germany). Now I am thinking that on this trip I will sacrifice Frankfurt am Main and Mainz.

Originally I though I would start in Munich, then work my way roughly northward and end in Berlin. But if starting in Munich means a plane to Frankfurt and then transfer to a train or another plane to Munich, would it logistically make as much or more sense to start my trip in Würzburg, on the way taking planes to Frankfurt and trains to Würzburg? Alternatively, maybe I could take flights to Berlin, start my trip in Berlin, then trains to Würzberg, then drive to Rothenberg ob der Taube and Füssen, ending in Munich. Which order or direction I travel in and exactly which dates, probably will have a lot to do with plane ticket prices. As of now prices seem rather high.

"...there isn't time for everything that looks appealing and Rick Steves has a section on Würzburg but didn't include Bamberg..."

Keep in mind that Rick sells both books and tours and has carved out his own personal segment of the travel market. And he does this mostly by himself for every country in Europe, no small task. This requires deference to places his large North American audience will recognize by name - and omission of places that would provide a more complete and balanced guidebook for Germany. Anything that rings a bell with us - Nazis, Walt Disney, etc. - will achieve prominence on his pages. The fact that he makes a huge fuss over certain places like Neuschwanstein (not a castle btw) - yet fails to mention a place like Bamberg - is to be expected. It's wise to consult additional, more complete sources, as it seems you've done, to determine what's appealing.

...make as much or more sense to start my trip in Würzburg, on the way taking planes to Frankfurt and trains to Würzburg?

Flying into Frankfurt and taking the train to Wurzburg and starting your trip by car from there does make sense. If memory serves correctly (and I might be wrong), there is a train ticketing location in the airport. You can take a train straight from the airport to the main station in Frankfurt and catch a direct train to W'burg. Wouldn't worry about advance tickets as the trains run quite often. Also, and I didn't review your last complete trip plan, you might consider doing it all by train. Just a thought

What would be a good price on plane tickets? Ticket prices seem rather high. In 2022 I spent $1,449.85 on round trip plane tickets to and from Madrid, in 2018 I spent just under $1,485.21 on round trip tickets to Athens, in 2023 I spent $886.31. total on tickets to Mexico City and from Oaxaca; in 2019 I spent 1,392.43 on tickets to Amsterdam on a Tuesday and from Brussels on a Tuesday, although most of the tickets I saw were over $1,900 on other days of the week. On other trips I was able to leave on a Saturday and return on a Saturday or Sunday.

Most tickets to Germany I am seeing are in the over $1,700 to over $2,000 range. Is this just the new normal price range due to inflation or is there a better priced travel arrangement I have missed? My latest thought is to try a bare-bones low-end airline like Ryanair. Ryanair doesn't serve Detroit; it is based in Dublin, Ireland and seems to only fly to and from certain typically out of the way airports in Europe. What if I bought a round trip ticket from Detroit to and from Dublin, Ireland, and then bought separate tickets from Ryanain from Dublin to Hamburg, from there taking the train to Berlin, starting my trip in Berlin, then train to Wurzburg, then rental car to Rothenberg and Füssen, returning the car in Munich, sights in Munich, Ryanair or some low end airline back to Dublin, Dublin back to Detroit?? Would this be a viable plan? Would any money saved be worth it or does this seem too risky? I am thinking late August to September to take advantage of the fact that my work is closed on Labor day. But my work will be closed on July 5th too.

You should check school vacations, which are staggered throughout Germany. If you are arriving or departing within one week of a vacation starting or ending, this will make a huge difference in prices. So the price to Berlin, my be completely different to Munich, if they are not on vacation.
https://www.iamexpat.de/education/primary-secondary-education/school-holiday-dates-germany

I would not do that Dublin trip. You are wasting a whole day, coming and going, by doing that. Your vacation is short enough.

Use Rome2Rio to find some prices on different arrival and departure cities.

I am not interested in first picking how many days I "have" for a city and then fitting in what I can comfortably fit into those days. I would rather first come up with a list of what looks appealing, make up an approximate day-by-day itinerary as an example of how I could fit in what I probably want, and then give myself the number of nights in the city that I "need".

My top interests are old paintings, old coins, old artifacts or artworks (stuff I irrationally feel is special because it is rare and/or because of the work or talent it took to make); old castles or buildings and/or whatever landmarks or unusual scenery I fit in; I am one of those reform-secular Jews who usually doesn't pay attention to the religion, but when I travel I still look for sites or monuments of interest to Jewish history or culture. I am trying to minimize my consumption of restaurant food and i don't drink alcohol. I don't want to focus so much on the nazi genocide that I skip medieval structures and old paintings and stuff that is characteristically old-German.

Do you think it would be a shame to skip Berlin (at least on this trip) and focus on Munich, Bavaria and/or maybe some other nearby city? Like for example would I be better off skipping Berlin and adding in Bamburg, Nuremberg, and/or Salzberg, Austria?

Edit: I can take up to 10 days off work; work is closed on July 4th (US independence day), Labor (first Monday in September), and weekends; considering the weekends I could stretch a trip up to 1 night on the plane and 14 or 15 nights on the ground max.

If you want old Jewish history, then you are going to all of the wrong cities.
You need to spend time in Frankfurt, Worms and Speyer. (I would add Mainz, but there is nothing much left from its' early Jewish history, to see or visit) Look up the SCHUM cities.
Frankfurt was the center of Jewish culture for centuries. A visit to the Judengasse Museum should be top on your list. Museum built on the top of the medieval ghetto ruins. Nothing about the Holocaust in there, but all about the community in Frankfurt from the 1100s-1800. Their cemetery dates from 1272. Speyer has the ruins of its' Synagogue and you can visit the wonderful Mikvah carved deep into the stone. Worms has the Rashi Haus and the largest medieval Jewish cemetery - Holy Sands.

For old art, while in Frankfurt, go to the History Museum and check out their Collecters Section. It isn't of much interest to me, but you may like it since that is what you are interested in seeing.

I still haven't bought plane tickets. I am deleting Berlin from my itinerary. For sure I want to at least see:
Munich,
a part day trip to the Dachau camp,
Rothenberg ob der Taube,
Erfurt (it looks like it has an old building that was once used as a synagogue which is a museum now, along with various museums and a well preserved old town neighborhood)
Frankfurt

Should I add in another city or place? I see suggestions i got included Bamberg and Aschaffenberg. I had thought of trying to fit in some Alps mountains scenery and then I was thinking of Füssen and the castle Neuschwanstein, but now I am doubting whether it's is worth it. Is Füssen and the castles worth it?

Would it be worth going to Nuremberg or Würzberg? If so which one?

I definetaly would go to Füssen

Much more to see and do but only the Castles
for ex
Do a boattrip on Lake Forggensee (start from beginning of June)
Go to Tegelberg by Cable Car

and many other options I can give when you are interested

I think Erfurt is great. A list of reasons to visit I included in another post a couple of years ago (some of which may not apply to your interests)...

Made it through the war relatively unscathed ==> great architecture

Domplatz (the main square) is super cool

Erinnerungsort Topf und Söhne -- museum in the old administration building of the Topf und Söhne manufacturing company, that as a tiny part of its manufacturing portfolio built the ovens for Auschwitz and other death camps -- museum explores how a "normal" company with "normal" owners who even shielded some Jewish employees became complicit in genocide

The Old Synagogue -- most parts date to somewhere around 1250-1320 AD

The Merchant's Bridge

Luther sites

Has its own Stasi Museum that includes the Stasi prison. I didn't make it there but it has good TA reviews: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g187419-d6989386-Reviews-Gedenk_Und_Bildungsstatte_Andreasstrasse-Erfurt_Thuringia.html

Great Parks

Anger One -- a former Jewish department store that was removed from its owners and given to Aryan owners -- now home to Karstadt and other stores

Sites related to West German Chancellor Willy Brandt's visit to Erfurt in 1970. Brandt was the first West German chancellor to visit East Germany, and Erfurt was the site of the visit. He was greeted enthusiastically by the Erfurt populace, a huge embarrassment to East German officials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2FeoG2PaDU&t=194s

Great hotel: Hotel Domizil on Domplatz -- owned by mother and son -- son is a chef and makes wonderful breakfasts

Thanks for all your input. See my rewritten itinerary at the top.

Before you get tired of this thread: Is Nymphenberg palace worth seeing or is it redundant if I see the Munich Residenz? It isn't a medieval castle. It was built starting in 1664.

Should I try squeezing in a day trip to Burghausen or Harburg Castles?

Or should I just acquiesce to Marienburg fortress in Würzburg and/or Kaiserburg Nürnberg being enough medieval castles?

If you want old Jewish history, then you are going to all of the wrong cities.

I've been to the Frankfurt bedroom community, Königstein, many times, but wasn't aware of it's Jewish history until recently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigstein_im_Taunus

It's a worthwhile place to consider visiting, photos.

...Marienburg fortress in Würzburg...

If you are pressed for time, the view of the fortress from the city is much better than the view of the city from the fortress. And the fortress itself is, in my opinion, just so-so. Bur the Prince Bishop's Residenze is over the top.

I don't want to just glance at a castle from the outside; if I have time to see it from the outside, and if it is open to visitors, I will make time to go inside and see it properly.

I started reading descriptions of the Würzburg Residenz. It may be highly decorated but isn't a medieval castle meant to shelter the occupants from a band of attackers or an army; the outside was completed in 1744, the inside in 1780.

I have a valid Michigan drivers license. I rented a car 3 times so far, twice in Florida, once in Southern California. I have been to other countries in Europe 6 times but I didn't rent a car for any part of any of those 6 trips. I never rented a car outside the USA. I am open minded to renting a car if something not accessible by train is worth it, not that I have to see something out of the way just to avoid fear of missing out.

If you have been to Harburg Castle (it looks almost on the way from Munich to Nuremberg or Rothenberg) or Burghausen Castle (Yeah I see it is out of the way), was it worth it in and of itself temporarily disregarding the transportation to the place?

Or should I just acquiesce to being satisfied with the other castles I tentatively put in my itinerary at the top?

edit: [My mother's maiden last name is Rothenberg and then its just a coincidence that Rothenburg ob der Tauber is a popular destination. Also I have no clue why the last name has berg with an e but the town has burg with a u]

Also I have no clue why the last name has berg with an e but the town has burg with a u.

As I'm sure you know, as a general rule, "berg" refers to a mountain or hill and "Burg" refers to a fortified city or castle. Haveing said that, it was very common for immigrants coming to the U.S. to have the spelling of their name changed at the port of entry just because it was easier for the immigration people, or the spelling was just based on how it sounded. Several of our ancestor's names were changed that way.

You are right about the age of the Residenz in Wurzburg, and the fortress is definitely older. Both were used by the Prince Bishop, and both received a great deal of damage during WWII and had to undergo rebuilding. There are conflicting stories about why the city was bombed and a google search will yield lots of information if you are interested.

You may have time to visit both, but if you are pressed for time, then your interest should certainly prevail.