Germany Leg for 2017 Summer Trip

I'm a little confused by the italics. Does that mean you plan to sleep in Jena and Weimar? The next place you have listed in italics is Worms... and what does the asteres mean?

I would suggest that days 10 through 14 are a little tight without a car. Even though you're not covering a huge geographic area, that's still quite a bit for each day. You could probably streamline things by picking one base and using a car to get around.

Congratulations on picking Frizlar! Visit this little gem and you might see why one of my most frequent comments on this website is "Rothenburg odT is not as unique as advertised." However, it doesn't take particularly long to explore. This is another opportunity where a car would be useful, because the countryside around Fritzlar has a particularly high density of castles. Felsburg, above the nearby town of Felsberg, is a particularly well-preserved specimen.

Worms may have a very long history, but most of the town was destroyed in WWII, and it's largely rebuilt in the functional but not particularly memorable postwar style. If time is tight, cut it. Or better yet, substitute it with it's sister city further up the Rhine, Speyer. Both have very old Romanesque cathedrals, both have a long Jewish history, but Speyer barely got touched in the war.

Kinda sort between Halle and Jena is the stunning town of Quedlinburg. It has over 1000 half-timbered buildings, a castle, a small art gallery (Feininger) and an impressive cathedral treasury with an American connection. You can sign up for a walking tour at the tourist office, I believe, but I just rented the audio guide. It took quite a lot of time even though I had previously visited the castle and cathedral--that's how much there is to see in the town.

Erfurt is a handsome city with that university-town liveliness. I enjoyed it a lot. The core of the historic district is a fair (but interesting) walk from the train station.

Eisenach is also very attractive and nice to wander around. Getting to Wartburg requires either a bus or a taxi. I arrived mapless and remember doing a bit of confused walking between the train station and the center of the old town where I picked up the bus to Wartburg. I had trouble ascertaining the exact location of the bus stop, so be sure you have a map and good directions when you arrive.

I visited Buchenwald (via Weimar) on a day-trip from Erfurt. A public bus will get you to the camp, but it doesn't run terribly often. There's a lot of information to absorb at the camp, which had a post-war life as an internment camp for enemies of the Communist regime. There's detailed information in English. I had to rush to get through all the information presented and ended up taking the last bus away from the camp, which wasn't a great plan; what if it hadn't shown up?

I traveled through eastern Germany by bus and train myself in 2015. I'm a much slower traveler than you are, so I'm not sure whether I'm just having a philosophical reaction to your itinerary, but it feels rushed to me. I'm not sure it's going to work when you're dependent on public transportation. I haven't visited most of the places you're heading to, but I believe a fair number of your targeted sights are not located near the train or bus station where you will arrive, and I think you may not be allowing enough time for that extra transportation leg. Of course, if you're willing to spring for taxis, that will help a lot.

Hi,

Be sure to see the "1806 Jena Museum" at Jena-Cospeda on the battle itself. If you're interested in optics, there is famous Zeitz Museum, which I also saw in Wetzlar.

Day 11...all those activities? The battlefield and the Museum will take almost the whole day. To get to Buchenwald you can take the bus from the Goethe Platz in Weimar. Weimar is certainly a town that is overwhelming, eine Kulturstadt. I found it to be the first time.

It is perfect for the way you know how you like to travel.

I say keep Worms on the plan. I go there rather often and enjoy it. The Rashi House, the Synagogue and Mikvah are worth seeing, plus the Holy Sands cemetery is the oldest Jewish cemetery in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Cemetery,_Worms
For the Luther fan, Worms is where he was on trial, so there will be a lot there this summer. This is the Luther year and participating cities are preparing wildly. That Rick left Worms off his Luther film he made last year rather surprised me.
This website lists various Luther Routes you can follow. I posted the one that includes Worms.
http://www.germany.travel/en/specials/luther/luther-routes/route-6-vision-and-reality.html

"All is fixed" Maybe you could insert a day trip to Leipzig from Berlin to the see the Völkerschlacht Denkmal and Museum, seen from the perspective of the Allies on the Battle of Leipzig against Napoleon. You'll recognise the famous painting of the meeting by the three Allied sovereigns after the battle. That painting you'll see at the German History Museum (DHM) in Berlin and also at the Völkerschlacht Museum. Good that you'll be in Erfurt, where Napoleon met with Goethe for the first time.

I was glad to see Worms remain in your itinerary. It has an awesome cathedral, which is one of the three great Romamesque Cathedrals in the Rhineland. The other two are in Mainz and Speyer. On a visit to Mainz one year I rented a car and visited and photographed all three the same day.

Tom-I had drawn out plans to have a car from Wittenburg to Frankfurt, then canceled them. However, after reading your post and checking the routing again, it seems much more logical to drive during that stretch. I've already contacted Gemut to get a quote on a car. Both Jo and you turned me on to Fritzlar . . . I read about it in a post from a year or two ago. As far as Speyer goes, I would really like to go there, but Worms is a must. Hmmm, maybe I'll have the car from Day 9 to Day 22 and finish off at Speyer before heading to Strasbourg.

acraven-Quedlinburg was on my original plan. Now that I'm getting a car, it will be much easier and faster to get to. I'm thinking of cutting a day from Hamburg and canceling the day in Gelnhausen. That'll buy us a day in Quedlinburg and provide us a realistic amount of time to take in Buchenwald.

Fred-We do plan on going to the Museum at the Jena Battlefield. I hope to read a book on that subject, but I already have four other books in the queue. You're right, Day 11 is not really realistic. Going to add another day in there. As far as going to Leipzig, I like that idea . . . we did a day trip there from Berlin in 2013 (you were in Berlin at the same time). Or, we might be able to drive from Halle, now that we'll have a car for that stretch.

Jo-Thanks for those links. We'll certainly be visiting the Jewish Cemetery. Several months ago, heck, maybe it's been over a year, I stumbled upon the link regarding tourism in Germany. At that time, there wasn't all the info about Luther and those cities that's there now (or I just missed it). That site is going to be quite helpful moving forward.

Jack-We wanted to go to Worms on our first Germany trip back in 2009 . . . just couldn't fit it in.

Jazz-While we do enjoy (usually) our busy style of travel, receiving different opinions is always appreciated.

I hope in the next two weeks to have this portion finalized, though it's difficult . . . just so many wonderful places to visit.

This is a very dense thread, so I'm sorry if I missed something. Some ideas to consider:

I didn't see the cathedral treasury mentioned in Quedlinburg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_medieval_art_from_Quedlinburg

We were sorry to miss the Carl Zeiss museum in Jena. It's obscure, but I wanted to see the exterior of Zaha Hadid's BMW factory near Leipzig.

Have you not been to Weimar? It's quite a rich destination, and very near many of your targets. In summer, don't miss the EGAPark gardens in Erfurt.

Are some of the museums on the Berlin island closed or partly closed? I'm thinking of the Pergamon in particular.

A lucky break when we were in this area was that it was Pifferling season, affecting many restaurants. Have you already been to Germany during strawberry season? It's so different from our U.S. demand for seasonal fruit from South America all year round.

Edit: UNESCO WHS Garden Realm Dessau-Wörlitz . Exceptionally old, deconsecrated Synagogue building in Erfurt. Interior is a fascinating museum, BTW with very little "religion" and a lot of history.

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....In 2013 staying in Berlin was planned. I was in Munich after being in Westphalia, got a phone call on a family emergency, got the next flight back to SFO from Munich direct. The Berlin visit had to be cancelled, obviously. But I went back to Berlin at the end of April 2014. For a good treatment of Jena as operational and strategic history: Seen from whose perspective? From that of les français, I heartily recommend Andrew Roberts, "Napoleon, A Life" and the indispensable classic by D Chandler, "The Campaigns of Napoleon," both massive works. For the Prussians, see R. Parkinson's, "Clausewitz." If you're interested in seeing the largest Jewish cemetery in Germany going back to at least the 18th century, it's in Berlin, ie, Weissenfels in Pankow. I saw it from a car.

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....There is also a Liszt Haus/Museum in Leipzig. Going there and the Völkerschlacht Denkmal and Museum will take up most of the afternoon. I went to that Museum a few years ago, gave it my undivided attention, was a bit disappointed since I had expected a larger battlefield museum. When you look at the panorama, ask in what direct was Elster River.

In Weimar don't miss Goethe and Schiller together am Theaterplatz, which ca 35 min walk from the train station.

In Berlin to see both a WW1 and 2 site, I suggest going to the Invalidenfriedhof, all the more so if you have a good reading level of German, ca 25 mins walk from Berlin Hbf. the oldest Prussian-German military cemetery. You'll see the grave sites of certain WW1 commanders (Hoffmann, Seeckt, Eichhorn, etc) and that of Scharnhorst and Yorck von Wartenburg (who turned against Napoleon). See the Resistance Museum, Gedenkstätte deutscher Widerstand, on Stauffenbergstraße. The premises themselves are poignant, just grim.

There are numerous military sites connected with WW 1 and 2 in the Greater Berlin area, all depends on your driving interest to track them down. Having a rental car helps.

"Museum of Film and TV" Which one? One is in Berlin at Alexanderplatz (i believe ?), the other is in Potsdam, ca 12 mins or so from the train station once you cross the bridge.

Tim-NJ For sure we'll be checking out the cathedral treasury in Quedlinburg. I'm from the next town over to the "Strawberry Capital of the World", Oxnard, CA. Big, juicy, sweet strawberries, full of flavor. Still buy several flats each year. Weimar is on the list . . . will be there for two, possibly three nights. For sure we'll be at the synagogue in Erfurt. Don't know if we'll be there during mushroom season, but I'll be on the lookout.

Fred-I do recall now that you had to cut your trip in 2013 short. Both of those books you recommend look great . . . however, I wouldn't be able to tackle either of them due to their length and my below average reading speed. In Leipzig, we did neither the Völkerschlachtdenkmal nor Liszt house. Thanks for the suggestions. If we make it to Leipzig, both of those are places of interest for us. In Berlin, we visited the Resistance Museum in 2013. Planned to be there a couple of hours . . . think we were there for four. The Film Institute we'll be going to is the one in Berlin on Potsdamer Straße. Special interest there are the actors and directors who fled during the Nazi era. We won't have a car in Berlin . . . driving in big cities in the US is fine . . . but overseas, I try to avoid it.

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....Going to Hamburg with the Beatles connection is great Remember what John Lennon said of his experience in Hamburg. That's historical. If you're are interested in more history other than that associated with the Beatles, there is also a camp memorial site and Bismarck's house/museum. Both of these places are in two different suburbs of Hamburg, both of which can be accessed by the S-Bahn from Hamburg Hbf, likewise with the Museum focusing on one geographic area in the former East Prussia.

I loved Speyer, hope you can fit it in.

No visit to Wittenberg is complete without seeing this (which our guide conveniently omitted): The city of Wittenberg contains a Judensau from 1305, on the facade of the Stadtkirche, the church where Martin Luther preached. It portrays a rabbi who looks under the sow's tail, and other Jews drinking from its teats. An inscription reads "Rabini Schem HaMphoras," gibberish which presumably bastardizes "shem ha-meforasch" (see Shemhamphorasch). The sculpture is one of the last remaining examples in Germany of "medieval Jew baiting." [Wikipedia]

Fred-It's the Beatles that called us to Hamburg, but we're looking forward to taking in several sites.

Zoe-Yes, we are able to squeeze Speyer in on this trip. Anything that stood out to you?

Charlie-We saw that Judensau on our first trip to Wittenberg. I wonder if there's one on the United Nations building?

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....Looking over your proposed itinerary, I see this upcoming trip is only on Germany, what the textbook calls "eine Deutschlandreise." If you were going to Austria, in particular Vienna, I would suggest in connection to Napoleon going to the town of Deutsch-Wagram (take the S-Bahn). The battlefield museum in Wagram is only open once a week.

Day # 18 Marburg. What are you tracking there? Maybe I can guess?

Fred, during the Fritzlar-Kassel-Marburg days we'll be checking out some of the Fairy Tale Road sites (we're both teachers of young kids). In Marburg we're looking at a 3-hour stop to check out the old town, then visit the castle.

After Speyer, we leave Germany for Strasbourg, then head north to Luxemburg, Brussels, Amsterdam and conclude in London. Hope to be back in Wein by 2020 . . .Napoleon will be on our agenda.

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....If you're interested historically, have the time in Marburg an der Lahn, check out the Elisabethkirche, one of the famous Protestant churches in Germany. Upon entering turn left, you'll be surprised to see whose grave site. I've been to Marburg a few times but twice to the Elisabethskirche and this grave site. The last time I was there was 2007, the first time in Marburg and seeing it was thirty years earlier in 1977. Are you going in Aug.2017?

Fred, Marburg is plan ned for tbe first week in July. I could look up who is buried in that church, but I think I'll just wait and be surprised. In 2013, while in Budapest, we heard tbe scoop on St. Liz. Being famiar with The Virgin of Guadalupe, we noted some similarities between their two stories.

check out the Elisabethkirche, one of the famous Protestant churches in Germany.

... and the finest example of early gothic style (Frühgotik) in Germany!

@ Tim/Stevenson Ranch....I ask about August because the guy whose grave site memorial inside the Elisabethskirche died in August. When I saw it the first time in 1977, it was in late August when the wreaths and ribbons could still be seen. In 2007 I saw it in June, nothing was there at the site.

My wife and I have visited Marburg many times over the years, because we can stay there at a friend's apartment. Even if you're there for only a short time, I recommend the following: Not only the Elisabethkirche, but the St. Michaelskapelle, which is right across the street; in the Oberstadt (the older, higher part of town), notice the Stolpersteine (http://www.stolpersteine.eu/en/) among the cobblestones; the recently discovered ruins of a medieval synagogue in the Judengasse, not far from the market square; and our favorite restaurant, the Bückingsgarten, which is located right by the Landgrafenschloss and affords a fantastic view of this old city.

Thanks for the tips on Marburg. We will be spending a day and night there.

@ Tim...I mention the Elisabethskirche in Marburg because the "guy" referred to above is Field Marshall von Hindenburg, whose grave site and that of his wife can be seen inside the church immediately to your left once you enter. The traditional Prussian colors and other color combinations of various "Wappen" are at the site too.

If one is into Napoleonic history as it relates to Prussian history, ideally one has to see both Jena and the Völkerschlachtdenkmal (plus the Museum) in Leipzig. The primary difference is that Napoleon's twin victories at Jena-Auerstädt produced the end of the Prussian state and his defeat by the Allies, ie the armies of four countries, at Leipzig produced the end of his rule in Germany. I have Jena planned as day trip r/t from Berlin this time. To get out to the battlefield site, being motorised is essential.

The trip is "busy" for my style of travel, but if it suits you, go for it. If you are interested in Luther, you might want to add Coburg to the list of stops. Luther spent six months there. You're not far from that city and by car it would be an easy addition.

Lubitsch-Wow, thanks for all the info. With regards to Hamburg, St. Pauli's church was an error. All of your suggestions I have written down on my list of possible things to do . . . but after reading more about them (there's been a LOT of reading going on lately) the "possible" has been removed.

Dessau-Wörlitz Garden Realm and Leipzig were on our list of places to go this trip, but the garden will have to wait until our next trip to Germany, when we'll be staying in Leipzig for 3-4 nights. We did a day trip from Berlin to Leipzig back in '13, and will give that fantastic city its proper visit another time, including the Völkerschlachtdenkmal. In regards to the Hartz mountains region, we hope to spend 5-7 days there in another visit. We're just getting a taste this time with our stay in Quedlinburg

Your right, Ludwigstein castle certainly is not a major site. Some of our best memories in Europe are those more less-frequented places (Nunney Castle in Somerset is one example). It's on our way to Hann. Münden, so we may stop there. Won't know until that day.

Waldeck is a kickback stay in a former castle which wifey enjoys. Those water work displays in Kassel look awesome . . . we'll make that happen.

We had looked at stopping at Friedberg or Limburg on the way to Mainz. But since the rental car needs to be dropped off at noon in Mainz, neither of those stops will probably happen, unless we get an early start (which we rarely do).

Anita, you're right about Coburg being a good stop, especially since we'll have a car. As you mentioned, it's a pretty busy itinerary, and Coburg had to get scratched this time. We'll eventually get there, though. Thanks for the suggestion.