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Germany Itinerary check

Hubby and I are starting to plan our travels next summer with our teen son. I am interested to get opinions and suggestions for this tentative itinerary. We love small towns, alpine hiking, and anything roman or medieval. My son is considering a career in archeology /paleontology and he also is interested in World war sites since he just took AP European History last school year. Hubby is a HS Earth Science teacher so we will look for geology sites too. We plan to explore a good deal of the German Castle Road on this trip.
Hoping for further input and suggestions....
Thanks in advance!

Fly into Zurich or Geneva from US overnight

1 nt Lucerne or Montreux
4 nts Murren, Switzerland
Train to Frankfurt-Rent car-Drive to Bacharach
3 nts Bacharach
2 nts Trier
2 nts Strasbourg
2 nts Freiburg
4 nts Fussen or Ruette
2 nts Rothenburg ob der Tauber
3 nts Wurzburg
1 nt Heidelberg
1 nt Frankfurt near airport
Fly home

Kim

Posted by
19092 posts

"Rothenberg" is Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Spelling correctly might help you to get there.

Seems rather pointless for you to rent a car in Frankfurt and drive to Bacharach. You can take a Regional Express from Frankfurt Hbf and be in Bacharach in just over an hour. If you pay full fare for the ticket from Mürren (note the ü) to Frankfurt from the Bahn, it will cost 154,60€ per person and take 6 hours. Then you will have to spend time renting the car and driving to Bacharach. It will cost less, 150,60€, to go by way of Karlsruhe and Mainz, and it will only take about 1:20 longer than to Frankfurt, and you won't have to take the time renting a car or driving.

If you go through Frankfurt Hbf and buy a discounted ticket, it will cost the same, 119,90€ with three month advance purchase, whether to Frankfurt Hbf or to Bacharach.

You shouldn't need a car to get anywhere on the Rhein around Bacharach. There are trains on both side of the Rhein, ferries across the river, and K-D boats on the river.

Same thing for getting to Trier from Bacharach. It's easy and inexpensive by train.

I certainly wouldn't rent a car before Trier.

Posted by
12040 posts

You're going somewhat backwards here. Strasbourg and Freiburg are on the way from Mürren to the Mittelrhein. It's about as easy to get from the Mittelrhein to Füssen as it is from Freiburg, so there's no need to backtrack south along the Rhine.

Nobody would ever mention Reutte if Mr. Steves didn't make it one of the more puzzling recommendations in his book. It's a very ordinary, not particularly attractive town in a region chocked with extra-ordinary towns.

If you wanted to include some geology-related sites, large parts of the territory of Rheinland-Pfalz west of the Rhine river constitute the Vulkanland Eifel Geopark. The actual sites and exhibits are spread across a rather large geographic area.

For paleontology, look up Grube Messel, near Darmstadt (very close to Frankfurt's airport). There's a nice museum devoted to all the fossils discovered in the nearby mining pits.

Evidence of "WWII history" in Germany is actually rather scant. Much of the building projects of the NS era were destroyed during or immediately after the war. Of the destinations you listed, the only structure I can think of that has a close link to the NS era is the Heidelberger Thingstätte. The Nazi government intended this outdoor amphitheater as a place to hold political rallies, although these proved less popular than the regime intended. With the exception of the removal of all Nazi-related insignia, it remains completely undamaged today. If you want to visit, you can reach it either by hiking up the mountain from the well-known Philosophenweg, or drive up to a parking lot just below the structure (the route is tricky to find if you don't know the area, however).

Another NS site that is somewhat convenient to your tour is the Olympic Stadium in Garmisch-Partenkirchen. It's still in use for skiing events. And if you want your choice of good Alpine hikes, this would be a much better location to stay than either Füssen or Reutte.

Posted by
8443 posts

two thoughts

(1) consider putting Heidelberg on the way to Strasbourg rather than before ending in Frankfurt?
(2) from Switzerland head north to Füssen (assuming only to visit the castles, right?), then counterclockwise ending in Frankfurt.

that looks like a lot of short stops to me, especially if driving.

PS WWII history is an interest - then you should include Dachau.

Posted by
20090 posts

OK, Tom just jogged my memory in the Earth Science department.

Noerdlingen is another walled town south of Rothenburg, just as pretty as Rothenburg and not nearly as touristy. It sits in a shallow depression about 15 miles in diameter which is actually an ancient asteroidal impact crater. Nobel physics laureate Luis Alvarez noticed that the church in the center of town was built of local stone with tiny sparkely particles in it, which he recognized as shocked quartz, evidence of an impact. His son was a geologist working on research of the K-T boundary layer of rocks which also contained this substance. Thus the theory of dinosaur extinction 64 million years ago due to a much larger asteroid impact.

So maybe hubby will appreciate that.

Posted by
19092 posts

Although farbeit from me to add another town to your already packed itinerary, I must comment on Nördlingen.

I visited Nördlingen on my 2008 Romantic Road trip and it was far and away my favorite RR town. Not only does it have an almost intact wall, it has a Wehrgang, like Rothenburg's, that you can walk on, a plethora of Fachwerk buildings, and a church tower you can climb for a great view of the town and surrounding countryside. It also has the Reis museum, which unfortunately was closed on the day I was there, which is dedicated to the crater Nördlingen sits in, the walls of which were use for training our Apollo astronauts because they were considered to be like the surface of the moon.

I spent about 17 hours (overnight) in Nördlingen and hated to leave it.

Posted by
14507 posts

Hi,

Congrats on his passing the AP Euro Exam!

If you're into seeing WW2 sites, there are numerous ones I can suggest by way of memorials, (eg, the U-Boat Memorial, etc) war cemeteries, (ie, Vossenack, the Reichswald, or those in cities), museums, (eg, Resistance Museum, tank museum, battlefield/memorial museum etc), aside from the camps, but your itinerary isn't close to them.

Since your son had AP Euro, he might be interested in seeing Bismarck's statue in Heidelberg, at the Bismarckplatz not too far from the train station. Since you'll be 3 nights in Bacharach, there is the Gedenkstein (memorial plaque) to Blücher and the Prussian Army crossing the Rhine in 1813, one of the three I know of in Germany.

You can also take a day trip to pursue this interest in Prussian history from Bacharach to Kaub am Rhein to see the Blücher Museum on Metzergasse focusing on his Middle Rhine crossing in 1813.

Posted by
6640 posts

With your academic interests, I will caution you about relying too heavily on the standard (and somewhat limiting) RS Germany destinations. Bacharach for 3 nights? 4 in Fuessen/Reutte? 2 in Rothenburg? These are not bad places and are perhaps worth a visit, but they tend toward "cute and quaint" and tend to be overpopulated with tourists who seek no more than that. You've gotten some good tips in Noerdlingen. Noerdlingen isn't too far from the Altmuehltal Nature-Park and fossil fun:
http://international.naturpark-altmuehltal.de/en/topten/
https://www.european-traveler.com/germany/cheap-and-legal-fossil-hunting-in-the-altmuhl-valley/
Medieval cities Bamberg and Regensburg are well-preserved and have UNESCO World Heritage recognition:
BAMBERG
REGENSBURG

Nuremberg lies in between these two (WW II history.)

I'd consider carefully Lee's suggestion for using the trains for your journeys.

Posted by
37 posts

Wow...thanks for all the wonderful advice. This is our 7th trip to Europe, first time to Germany. We have taken our son every summer since he was 8. We have been to Ireland, England (2x), France, Wales, Scotland and Spain. I planned every trip myself and we have loved every minute! I have to brag cause my travel loving kid scored a perfect 5 on his AP Euro exam as a sophomore in HS. Proud mama for sure. Probably because of all he has seen on our adventures. It has made school come to life for him.

I have always used Rick's itinerary as a starting point for planning. Besides Noerdlingen and Ruette, what other locations would you change out from this list? Should we chose Regensberg or Bamburg in place of Wurzburg? As far as the trains go....we do enjoy train travel in Europe and most of our trips have been part rail and part car rental. We do find that we prefer to rent and drive so we can stop whenever and wherever we want. We have a knack for finding off the beaten track hikes or castles and some of our favorite memories have been those unplanned sites. I chose to train to Frankfurt so we could rent and return the car from the same place (starting and ending point in germany)...and we prefer to stay just a few nights in one location and then move on to a new location instead of daytripping and returning to a single week long hotel base (especially with locations over an hour or so). It just seems like we get to see more that way and we spend less time in transit.

I will do a bit more research and repost a revised plan. Thanks again for your time and your wonderful suggestions! School just started and I am already counting the days till summer vacay!

Posted by
20090 posts

Regensburg does have Roman ruins, some of them incorporated into more recent buildings. It was the site of Caster Regina military outpost built in 179.

Posted by
6640 posts

"I chose to train to Frankfurt so we could rent and return the car from the same place (starting and ending point in germany)..."

If you rent, and if you want to drop in a different city, that's not a problem within Germany - you'll normally incur no additional fees. (Airport pick-ups and returns DO cost more.)

When I questioned Bacharach for 3 nights, I did not mean to scare you away from the Middle Rhine Valley, which is a fine place for medieval castles and old-world towns. It's just that Bacharach alone won't take you longer than a couple of hours, in all probability, and with 3 nights you might wish to consider a base town with a ferry for crossing the river (like Boppard or St. Goar) for visits to east bank towns - and one that is a little closer to Marksburg and Burg Eltz. Boppard btw has some minor Roman ruins and a wine house/restaurant whose walls date from ancient Rome:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Boppard_Weinhaus_R%C3%B6merburg.JPG

Boppard info: http://flyhahn.com/cities/boppard-travel-guide.htm

Boppard photos:

Riverfront
Main square

Posted by
20090 posts

Another advantage to Boppard or St Goar is that they lie within the VRM, the Rhine-Mosel Transit District. You can buy a Minigruppenkarte for 22.10 EUR which allows the three of you to travel all day on the buses and regional trains of the district, after 9 am weekdays, anytime weekends. So, say, you wanted to go to Burg Eltz. Train to Koblenz, change to train to Moselkern, then take the 1 1/2 hour hike through the forest to the castle. When your done, hike back town and take the train home, or where ever. The trains run very hour in each direction. You could rent bikes and take them on the trains free. Nice bike trails along the Mosel.

Bacharch is outside the transit district to the south. To do a Rhine cruise, You could buy a 3 tickets for 10.20 EUR each from Boppard to Bingen Stadt to get the K-D Rhine boat downstream to Boppard, or further downstream, then train back. This trip is a little more care free when your car free.

Posted by
14507 posts

Hi,

You are indeed a proud mama. Most high schools don't let a sophomore take the AP Euro Exam, let alone his earning a 5. He could be interested in those Prussian history sites I mentioned above, more so if his teacher covered that part of the history.

Posted by
8942 posts

For your last day in Frankfurt, do spend it in the city and not at the airport. Frankfurt is one of Germany's most historic cities and it would be a shame after all this travel to miss it. This was the Election & Coronation city for the Holy Roman Emperor, site of the 1st freely elected German parliament, center of Jewish culture in Germany for centuries before it moved to Berlin in the late 1800's. Someone already mentioned the Saalburg and it is well worth a visit. Takes about an hour to get there from Frankfurt.

Other near-by quaint towns would be Büdingen (walled like Rothenburg, but never bombed) and its' neighboring town Gelnhausen and the nearby Castle Ronneburg. Limburg and Marburg are also charming as can be. Just Rick hasn't been to any of these towns yet, so they aren't in his books. I like Heidelberg, but would drop it in favor of any of these other towns.

Regensburg is great! The Residence in Würzburg will knock your socks off. (do go on the tour or you will miss half the rooms)

Posted by
7175 posts

I wonder if this routing (with some extra possible stops suggested) might not be more efficient after Switzerland ...
Train to Freiburg & pick up car here
Strasbourg
Trier
Bacharach
Heidelberg
Rothenburg ob der Tauber
Wurzburg
(Bamberg, Nuremberg, Regensberg, Augsburg)
Fussen
Return car and depart from Munich

Posted by
37 posts

Where would you all suggest we base instead of Fussen or Ruette? I have been looking at Garmisch-Partenkirchen. Is that a better choice? We plan to day trip to Bamberg from Wurzburg. Do any of you have suggestions for car rental locations in Freiburg?

Posted by
6640 posts

"Where would you all suggest we base instead of Fussen or Ruette?"

Oberstdorf or thereabouts might be a good choice for a few days. You'd be near Lake Constance (Lindau, Meersburg, Friedrichshafen) and the Appenzell region of Switzerland as well - you'd have a wide range of activities and sightseeing within day trip distance.

Your chosen previous stop is Freiburg. But if your goal is the Black Forest, you might look elsewhere nearby. There are some very fine Black Forest towns on/near the Black Forest Railway line, one of Germany's most scenic routes, between Offenburg and Donaueschingen (the source of the Danube River):

Gengenbach
Schiltach
Haslach, Hausach, Gutach and the Vogtsbauernhof
Villingen

Haslach is an attractive town with a small museum that covers traditional Black Forest costumes. We stayed in a nearby village (Steinach) on a family farm recently and in addition to some other outings paid a visit to a memorial site, Gedenkstaette Vulkan, in the woods just outside Haslach. The site was a forced-labor camp in operation at the end of WW II.