Germany (Bavaria) Itinerary with Family

I remember when we tried to drive as far as possible in 2 weeks and 3 weekends. We now travel slower and try to stay in one place a minimum of 4 days and take day trips. After all, it's impossible to see half a country in one visit and traveling so fast can make the trip such a blur.
Travel for six people by car is also so difficult. I hope you'll be getting a van and limiting luggage to one bag for each person.

I think that Lucerne must be a finger-fumble. There is no ski-jump there that I've ever seen - a fabulous lake, a beautiful old-town, a couple of pretty decent bridges, a Transport museum that is world class with a tethered balloon which gives great views, but no ski-jump.

I think you must mean Innsbruck.

I'm a bit confused because you say you want feedback but it looks like almost everything is already booked. Do you want validation, or do you genuinely want to change some things - are those things already booked changeable?

I might not have been quite so direct as Mark, but I share his concern about Dachau in the morning followed by an expensive and fun afternoon when you don't know how you will react to Dachau. With everybody from granddad to kids I would expect some to be moved, some to be oblivious, some to be quite distressed, especially after the shoes. You know your family better than we do so you may be able to guess who will fall into which bucket, but you won't really know until an hour or two after you leave the Concentration Camp. I'd plan something pretty mild and quite for the afternoon - such as a walk in the Englischergarten - or perhaps consider turning the day around and visiting Dachau in the afternoon.

It is obvious that you have put a fair amount of time and effort into getting the detail of this down - how much are you really willing to change some things - how much are you able to change?

The black forest open air museum should be fine for your teens.

if it gets boring, just cut the visit short. Next door is a nice alpine coaster. Both times I’ve been it hasn’t been crowded and the line moves fast.

I would certainly try to visit the ice caves. It is a unique attraction.

Get an early start every day that you are on the road. It takes longer to get places than you expect.

"...am I missing any "must sees" in a particular area..."

I don't necessarily believe in "must-sees." Those depend a lot on the make-up of your group IMHO. For some people I also think the word implies visits to historically and culturally significant places. So if that's what you mean, then of course you do have some such places on your list... but yes, you are missing and skipping a fair number of these as well.

You have chosen to do a very large travel circle, you have obviously used Rick Steves' "must-sees" to guide your choices, and you have a very tightly-packed trip already with locked-in base towns; should you get more suggestions now for additional must-sees, I suspect you'll be reluctant, given the amount of work you have so far invested.

In Germany Rick Steves tends to focus heavily on amusements to be shared with large crowds of international tourists, and the places he finds culturally/historically significant tend to cluster within the 1920's - 1960's (Nazi's, US historical involvement in Europe.) This approach helps him connect with his base of American tourists and readers but is not very comprehensive. There are hundreds of other great options of course. So with that in mind, if you are open to changes (and you do have time to re-do sights and outings,) well, I think you know your group best, and you would be in the best position to pick some alternatives. So I will just suggest that you dig around in some alternative sources. Tripadvisor is good. The other big-name travel guides are more comprehensive and will have additional alternatives as well. Germany's UNESCO WH sites will have some cultural/historical alternatives that escaped Rick Steves' attention and that may appeal to you.

About Baden-Baden: it's a very traditional spa-town environment. I don't know if you've considered something more casual and family-oriented for water-fun, but there are many such options in the Black Forest region.

https://www.blackforest-tourism.com/content/view/full/220141
https://www.blackforest-tourism.com/Media/Attraktionen/Outdoor-Swimming-pool-Muellheim
https://www.blackforest-tourism.com/Media/Attraktionen/Recreational-Pool-Renchen
https://www.blackforest-tourism.com/Media/Attraktionen/Panorama-Bad-Freudenstadt

Way too busy. Are you experienced European travelers? driven in Germany before? You might find there is a lot less usable time in a day after dealing with logistics - checking in/out of hotels, restroom stops, fueling up, searching for parking, standing in lines for tickets. Have you dealt with jet lag?

I wish I could give a longer response right now, but I must go see newborns at a couple of hospitals. I'll write something longer this afternoon.

I just wanted to say that you clearly have put a ton of time and effort into planning this trip. Be excited about your trip! I'm sorry you hit the RS forum buzzsaw with this post -- the posters are genuinely trying to be helpful, even if one or two of the blunter posts come across as hypercritical. Perhaps it marks me as a shallow US American, but I think you have a good backbone for a trip. More thoughts later!

I'm with Dave [in the fact that I too have to go see patients as well, haha] but I wanted to echo my agreement. You've clearly put in some good work here and I think your trip is fairly feasible and will be enjoyable for everyone. Sometimes this forum is a bit too harsh on those following the actual RS guidebooks, ironic considering the forum they frequent. I've always had great trips following his advice and I don't see why yours should be any different. I'm doing something similar to your Fussen to Berchtesgaden run, if mixed in a different order.

I would consider reversing the BMW/Olympic Park and Dachau day so you're at the more fun stuff in the morning but honestly, you know what it right for you and what your family can handle. If it works best to that combo that day, then do it. Sometimes the combinations that make sense in terms of travel don't always square exactly together, and that's fine.

Also... I think this trip is awesome for some teenage girls [speaking as someone who was once a teen girl herself]. I would have enjoyed your trip immensely at their age.

You have clearly put a lot of thought and work into this itinerary. I will only address your visit to Dachau, and gently agree with those who have expressed concern about your time there. I don't know how old your teenagers are or how much they can handle. I personally feel that if they can handle it, the visit should take place. Knowing history is important. But...I would go to Dachau in the afternoon. After I went I was very emotional and there was no way I would have been able to quickly transition to a 'fun' activity. Don't underestimate how much what you see there will affect you and your family.

Be sure to do the Night Watchman tour in Rothenburg!

I hope you have a wonderful trip!

I strongly disagree with the poster that stated that there are no MUST SEE sites.

I have been to 76 countries and lived in two foreign countries. I started traveling with the green Michelin Guides that had the one, two three star designation. A site with three stars was a MUST SEE.

Places like the Sistine Chapel and Coliseum in Rome, the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame in Paris, The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, The Tower in London, the Opera House in Sydney, the Great Wall, Teracotta Warriors and Forbidden City in China, the list goes on.

People do travel for different reasons. Some go for adventure travel, others for more entertainment, but most North Americans go to Europe for the Historical places, Art and Culture. I personally think it foolish to go to Paris or Tokyo to visit the Disneylands there when they can go to the originals in the USA for a lot less money, but of course, I am not the one paying for the trip.

My advice is to thoroughly research what there is to see when you go somewhere. Yes, the local color is not to be missed, like the 1000 year or bridge in Regensburg, Germany, with a bratwurst restaurant at one end of the bridge (the building where the restaurant operates was built to feed the workers that built the bridge).

Thank you everyone for the replies. I appreciate your taking the time.

A couple of points of clarification: My kids are 14, 15 and 17. They are well traveled (3rd trip to Europe) and, fortunately, well behaved. We have rented a 7 passenger van and we travel very light. The kids usually bring their school back packs. They are wearing the same clothes in all the pictures - but at least it means they can be ready to go inside of 10 minutes. :)

I am not overly worried about jet lag. We traveled on the red eye the last few times and it seemed to do the trick - but I am very worried about travel times on the road as, while I have google mapped all routes, I have heard the roads get clogged in summer.

I meant Innsbruck just b/c it is on the route, not Lucerne. I am sorry about the confusion that caused and about other typos. I had a teen party going on in the back ground and was going for expediency over accuracy.

I appreciate everyone comments about Dachau. I am NOT eliminating it from the itinerary as I feel it is important for the girls to see. But I do like the suggestion of moving it to the afternoon. THANK YOU for that! I am also fine with skipping BMW and / or the Olympic park if it can't/shouldn't be done in the same day and the switch doesn't work. I was looking at a map - not thinking it through on an emotional level.

My itinerary is not set in stone except for the few things I have booked (Fussen castles, Eagles Next and SOM tour). And, I am comfortable with my "large circle." I planned most of my trip using Pinterest and Trip Advisor but was mostly hoping to get others' feedback of places they really enjoyed in the Rhine, Black Forest and Bavarian regions by posting here as I am very open to changing daily itineraries. I have lots of time before the trip! So, if there is a site/hike/event you really enjoyed along or near my general route, please share! That is the kind of feedback I am looking for.

My travel philosophy with six is much different than it would be with just my husband and I. I tend to plan every minute of every day (my daily itinerary includes many more "smaller" stops at little museums and other local sites than what I listed) but remain very flexible to skipping and adding items once I am actually at a spot. I just need a plan to get 6 people moving and in the same direction in the AM!

Thank you to Russ for the Unesco (and other) links - I hadn't looked there yet but will do so.

Hello, again. First, I want to say this forum is awesome: it's full of experienced travelers with good knowledge who freely give of their time to try to help others have great trips. I do think that sometimes there is a lack of recognition of diversity in individuals' travel styles, preferred pace, and travel goals. That makes fast-paced itineraries get picked apart, though, again, it's with the goal of helping make trips better. I personally like slow trips, but I do recognize that others like a faster pace, and I've talked with people who really enjoyed fast-paced trips with 1 to 2 night stays at each stop. Your itinerary is too fast paced for me, but if it works for you and your family, that's all that really matters. That's all I'll say about pace. My observations on your itinerary:

I actually like the idea of a little stop at Bodensee/Lake Constance going from Freiburg to Füssen. You would pass through Meersburg, and if you make the change I suggest below, it's not such a long travel day. Meersburg has a great castle, a nice lake promenade, and interesting architecture. There are many restaurants on the lake promenade with tourist-quality food and English-speaking servers. There is excellent German food at Gasthof Zum Bären in the middle of the old town, but some basic German language skills are needed, as the staff spoke minimal English when I was there.

I would think about packaging the Austria stops into 1 day. Füssen to the Tiroler Zugspitzbahn is a 42-min drive (per Google Maps). Tiroler Zugspitzbahn to Area 47 is 53 minutes. Area 47 to Mittenwald is 47 minutes. That would save you the LONG travel day from Freiburg to Füssen, and you could use partial days in Füssen or Mittenwald to see the things you wanted to see on the northern route from Füssen to Mittenwald and/or see them by taking a northern route to Berchtesgaden.

You will see a ski jump in G-P as you walk to Partnachklamm. In fact, you will walk past the stadium used for the 1936 Winter Olympics. I personally would not prioritize Innsbruck's ski jump. I saw it as part of a 3-night stay in the Innsbruck area. I looked at it and said, "Wow, there's a ski jump." Then I kept walking.

Berchtesgaden: Both Königssee and Eisriesenwelt are worthwhile. I would suggest getting to Königssee in time to catch the first boat (current boat schedule here; scroll down for the link to the summer schedule). If you catch the 8 am boat, you will arrive at the Salet stop at 9 am and will have Obersee almost to yourself. It's perhaps a 10-min walk to Obersee from the Salet stop, and then you can hike around the lake on its right side to a snack hut (Fischunkelalm), where you will have tremendous views back across Obersee. From there, you can hike on to Rothbach Waterfall through a gorgeous alpine valley dotted with grazing/resting cows (watch your step!). The out-and-back hike from the Salet stop to Rothbach Waterfall should take no more than 2 hours, getting you back to the Salet stop at 11 am, which would allow to catch the 11:25 boat and get back to the other side of the lake by 12:25. Grab a snack and be on the road by 1 pm, which gets you to Eisriesenwerfen around 2 pm, which gives you plenty of time to catch the cave tour there.

Final hike in Berchtesgaden: Wimbachklamm (Wimbach Gorge) is a very short, very pretty hike. It can be extended to a nice 3-hour out-and-back hike by heading on to Wimbachschloss, an 18th century hunting lodge converted into a restaurant -- the trail starts level, but picks up more incline as you get near the Schloss (though the incline is manageable). Almbachklamm also offers a nice hike with a duration from 1 to 3 hours based on how much you choose to do.

Happy planning! If you have time, post a trip report when you return so we can all know how it went!

"I actually like the idea of a little stop at Bodensee/Lake Constance going from Freiburg to Füssen. You would pass through Meersburg, and if you make the change I suggest below, it's not such a long travel day. Meersburg has a great castle, a nice lake promenade, and interesting architecture. There are many restaurants on the lake promenade with tourist-quality food and English-speaking servers. There is excellent German food at Gasthof Zum Bären in the middle of the old town, but some basic German language skills are needed, as the staff spoke minimal English when I was there."

This is a good plan. We did this when driving from the Black Forest to Fussen. Well, we stopped for lunch anyway. It was a wonderful view and I've been wanting to return to this area ever since. It's a good place to break up your drive. Oh, one thing I wish we had realized when we got to Fussen is that the tiny streets that look like they are just for pedestrians are actually regular streets. We drove in circles for an hour trying to find our hotel. We didn't have a gps on that trip. It would have been very helpful if we did.

I did a Sound of Music tour (Bob's Special Tours) a few years ago and it was since a wonderful experience. A bike tour sounds like fun.

If you go by way of Meersburg, stop by the nearby Birnau church, a very nice example of baroque in a nice setting overlooking the lake

I think there's a lot of moving around in this itinerary but you've been to Europe before and you know your group so if you think you're up for this pace, go for it.

Thad said, you definitely have days where you have crammed in more than is possible to do. Day 9 for example. I mean, I short-changed Linderhof by arriving 2 hours before closing and thus only getting to tour the palace without enough time to fully explore the grounds, but I lived. You describe doing a full, busy day's worth of events and THEN drive to Garsmich to hike?

I'd prioritize which things you want to do and if you move quickly and can squeeze in everything, cool, but keep in mind that you will end up being forced to drop some stuff due to the constraints of space-time and make peace with that too.

Our family likes faster paced trips, so this does not seem crazy to me at all.

In regards to Dachau and BMW, we went to Dachau in the morning and the BMW museum in the afternoon. Our kids are in their early/mid 20's so older than yours, but we started taking them to Europe when they were 4 and 7 and have taken them to other museums around Normandy when they were 8 and 10. I am basically saying it just depends on each child and of course how the parents react. Some can handle it and others cannot. For us, there was no issue visiting Dachau in the morning and BMW later. We had a nice long lunch in between and sort of regrouped for the afternoon.

We loved the Eagle's Nest tour.

In Rothenburg, the Night Watchman's Tour is very good, but also do not miss the crime museum. It is fascinating! Also just walking the walls is much more interesting than you would first imagine. If you need a suggestion for dinner, do not miss Zur Holl !!!

Might want to check out Hellbrunn Palace/water garden in Salzburg. I definitely remember this place from when we visited probably 45 years ago. The salt mines are fun too.

Re: Baden-Baden, we went there last year only because my husband had visited with his parents -- I would suggest adding that day to someplace else.