german train fare 'conditions'

This verbiage from the website terms and conditions for Sparpreis tickets is perhaps a little clearer:
"Tickets can be reimbursed or exchanged up to one day before the start of the journey for a fee of 17.50 euros. On the day of travel, any change to travel plans incur the fee of 17.50 euros plus the difference between the new and original fare. No refund or exchange allowed after the 1st day of validity."

The second version isn't especially clear either, IMO. I believe it means that on the day of scheduled travel, you can dump your pre-purchased ticket (at a cost of €17.50) only if you are exchanging it for another (more expensive, I assume) ticket. If you choose not to travel on the same day you are scheduled to travel, you do not get a refund.

It means that a refund/exchange, not the fee, is excluded from the 1st day of validity.

You can exchange or refund the ticket for a fee of 17,50€ before the day of validity (travel). From the day of travel forward exchange or refund is not allowed (literally, closed out). But you can exchange the ticket on the day of travel for a fee of 17,50€ plus the difference between the price of the original ticket and full fare.

From the German language side of the website,

"Umtausch/Erstattung:
Vor dem 1. Geltungstag: Stornierungsgebühr 17,50 Euro
Ab dem 1. Geltungstag: ausgeschlossen*

* Hinweis
Sollten Sie Ihre Reisepläne geändert haben, kann die Zugbindung einer Sparpreis-Fahrkarte am Reisetag gegen eine Gebühr von 17,50 Euro aufgehoben werden. Zusätzlich ist die Differenz zwischen dem Sparpreis und dem Normalpreis zu zahlen."

*Exchange/refund
Before the 1st day of validity: cancellation fee 17,50€
From the 1st day of validity: closed out*
* Hint
Should your travel plans have changed, the train bond [specific train condition] of a Savings Fare ticket can be lifted on the day of travel for a fee of 17,50€. Additional is the difference between the Savings Fare price and the normal price to be paid.*

This version, also from DB, more closely matches what I would expect the rule to be. I would also always expect to pay the difference between the fare you originally chose and the fare available on the day of exchange for the new travel date and time.

• Exchange / refund: Possible up to one day before travelling against
  a fee of EUR 17.50. From the first day of validity: No exchange and
  no refund possible.

• It is possible to purchase a DB special fare insurance from EUR 6.00
  which will refund the ticket price in case of cancelation in specific
  cases.

Edit: see answer from Germany below.

"in specific cases."

I don't think just missing the train is one of the specific cases (unless you miss the train as a fault of the Bahn, ie, previous train late for a multi-train ticket. Then the Bahn will put you on the next train. No insurance required.).

Laura, I tend to agree with you. I have always believed that if you wait until the day of validity and can't make the train, the ticket is worthless, but you can exchange it the day before for a fee. Even today, on the ticket selection page of the online ordering process it says,

"Exchange/refund, EUR 17,50; Excluded from the 1st day of validity. "

I also believed that when exchanging the ticket in advance, you would pay the difference between the current Sparpreis (Savings Fare) and what you paid for the original ticket. That is, you can't buy a Sparpreis ticket, for travel in April, today for 29€ and exchange it a week before travel, when the Sparpreis is 89€, without paying the difference.

However, I'm now looking at the German language page for Sparpreis under Angebotskonditionen, Umtausch/Erstattung and * Hinweis, and it doesn't appear to match what I have always believed.

And, it appears that you can exchange the ticket on the day of travel, even after the time for your specified train, for one on a later train by paying the 17,50 and the difference between what you paid for the original ticket and a full fare ticket.

I would like to somehow get this clarified.

Any volunteers to try it and see what happens?

After wading through the AGB (Conditions of Carriage) it appears the sections 3.3.6 and 4.2.1.1 apply. Pretty much what Sam said as clarified by Russ. You can exchange or refund a Sparpreis ticket up to the day before travel for a penalty fee of 17,50€. On the day of travel, you can only exchange the ticket for a penalty of 17,50€ plus paying the difference between what you paid for the Sparpreis and afull fare ticket (obviously more expensive) for the same route, number of people, product (ICE, IC, etc) and class.

Two things to note:

You can buy a Sparpreis ticket now for a date three month in advance for 29€, and, if, a week in advance, the airline reschedules the flight arrival for later and you can't make the original train, you can exchange the ticket for a later train for 17,50€, even though Sparpreis tickets for that train might then selling for 89€.

If your flight arrives too late to make the train on your original Sparpreis ticket, you don't lose the entire Sparprieis ticket and have to buy a new ticket a full price. You still have to buy a new ticket at full price but they credit all of what you paid for the Sparpreis ticket, less a 17,50€ penalty, towards that full price ticket.

Our best German reader agrees with Lee's translation of those sections. Other countries don't make exchanges as generously, so it's hard for me to grasp that DB wouldn't always charge the price difference for the new ticket. I still would not buy a Sparpreis ticket without being confident of my departure plan. I'll ask another resource, as well.

Edit: see answer from Germany below.

I don't know if this helps, but I had to cancel a Sparpreis ticket 1 day before a trip in Sep 2013. I did it on line. There was a penalty (15 € I believe) but the rest of the Sparpreis ticket fare was credited to my credit card account. I used a credit card with no foreign transaction fee. So there is no doubt that you can get a refund of a Sparpreis ticket (minus a penalty) up to and including the day before the originally scheduled day of travel.

Lee's clarification

1.You can buy a Sparpreis ticket now for a date three month in advance for 29€, and, if, a week in advance, the airline reschedules the flight arrival for later and you can't make the original train, you can exchange the ticket for a later train for 17,50€, even though Sparpreis tickets for that train might then selling for 89€.

I believe Lee's clarification means that you can exchange the Sparpreis ticket for another (later) train up to and including the day before the originally scheduled train for only 17.50 €. This opens up another set of questions.

1. Can the exchange be done on line?

2. Does the itinerary have to be the same?

3. Does the later train have to be on the same day as the original train?

4. Or could the later train be 2 weeks later?

5. How about 6 months or 1 year later? (I suspect that the 92 day advance window might rule this possibility out.)

(Notice that if the exchange can be say, 9 months (or even 92 days) later on a different itinerary, this opens up a world of possibilities for buying a Sparpreis ticket with a locked in cost outside of the original 92 day advance window range. The exchange penalty would be very small compared to the difference between a Sparpreise fare and a full fare.)

Thanks to Sam, Russ, Lee, and Laura for helping to clarify this topic.

This is a lot of much appreciated information here - thank you everyone! I have now read through your responses several times.
It certainly does clarify a lot, as the "excluding" part of the verbiage was a complete mystery.
I will not miss a train due to flight schedules; I will only miss a train by, basically, being inept on my first German sojourn and / or getting lost or having some unforeseen problem. My trip to Munich is from Freiburg (Breisgau) and this was the one on my mind as the fares differ so greatly (51 vs 90+ euros). If I miss my train, it seems I will pay the sum of the full fare plus the 17,50 penalty, to get on the next train.
Things are so - way - different now, buying euro train tix online as opposed to the rail pass I used 3 decades ago. This question came up - how would they verify if your plane was late / rescheduled - word of honor?

Kenneth

1. The AGB doesn't address this. You would most likely have to be registered with the Bahn. Are there provisions on the Bahn website for exchanging tickets?

2. The AGB does address this. Yes, the itinerary (route, trains type and class, relation and number of people) has to be the same.

3. & 4. The AGB doesn't address this question.

4. What's the point. Just book 92 days before the desired date.

Lynnd: "how would they verify if your plane was late / rescheduled - word of honor? "

Your plane being late doesn't matter. If you miss the flight due to the fault of the Bahn, they will cover you. They look it up on their computer. I know; it happened to me. If you miss because your plane arrived late - so sorry.

Thank you Sam, Russ, Lee, Laura, and Kenneth, for the detailed info and research! What an amazing resource this forum is. Very grateful. :)

Kenneth (per question 2)

If you are registered with the Bahn and you purchase tickets online, you can log on to your account and see your itinerary and cancel the tickets for a refund. I suppose it also gives you the option to exchange the ticket, but I don't currently have any online tickets so I have no way to check that.

This definitive reply comes from Allan W, who has managed the Euraide office at Munich and Berlin train stations for many years.

If change is required before the overall first day of travel (as shown on the ticket). The traveler decides to adjust the travel plans at least one day before the trip begins. The original ticket is cancelled (on-line), a fee of EUR 17.50 (per ticket) is assessed, and the remaining amount is EITHER refunded to the traveler OR used to immediately purchase a new ticket (that meets the new needs of the traveler). Important: the new ticket is sold under the pricing conditions that exist at the time of the new purchase. If the original ticket was issued for a round-trip, this change must occur before the date of the first trip. Starting with the first day of travel (as shown on the original ticket), a cancellation is not possible.

If change is required on the actual date of travel as a result of external factors for which the DB is not responsible a Zusatzkarte is issued (more details below). The Zusatzkarte is combined with the original ticket so that other trains can be used on the same (scheduled) date of travel (until 10 am the next morning). The calculation of the price for a Zusatzkarte depends on the 17.50 fee, the normal price of a ticket, and the (deducted) value of the original ticket.

Lee is correct when he writes: “Yes, the itinerary (route, trains type and class, relation and number of people) has to be the same,” as the original ticket. In addition (to his comments), upgrades (from IC/EC to ICE/RJ) or relocation from second class to first class are possible with an additional payment after the Zusatzkarte is issued.

Note: a Zusatzkarte is only issued for the same (one) date of travel as shown on the original Sparpreis ticket. If the traveler decides not to obtain a Zusatzkarte, the original Sparpreis ticket cannot be used on other days. Exception: failure to use a round-trip Sparpreis ticket on the outgoing trip does not prevent it from being used (as scheduled) for the return trip.

Late arrival in Europe due to a flight delay? Sorry.
Meeting lasted longer than planned? Sorry.
There was traffic and the taxi didn’t reach the train station in time? Sorry.
Delayed through the late arrival of a (non-DB) bus? Sorry.

Here's Alan's info regarding delays caused by the railway, an issue not part of the original conversation:

If change is required on the actual date of travel as a result of factors for which the DB is responsible (e.g., a delayed train) = a new connection is offered without extra fees, using the same type of train service. In some cases, the original ticket is stamped by DB personnel so that additional train services can be used. Example: the departure of a specific IC train from Munich to Stuttgart is delayed by over 1 hour. The DB personnel can stamp the Sparpreis ticket with the words “Zugbindung aufgehoben” (= binding commitment dropped) and the traveler is allowed to use the next ICE train to Stuttgart.

There are a few exceptions to this quick summary. When (and where) would such a solution NOT be offered, even if the delay is caused by trains in the DB system?

• When the last (daytime) EC train from Munich to Verona departs shortly after 15h30, the next option (using the same type of train service) is shortly after 07h30 the next morning. It is not possible to board the CNL night trains (with a Europa-Spezial ticket issued for daytime EC trains to Italy).

• When the route (needed to reach the final destination) deviates dramatically from the original route.

"Important: the new ticket is sold under the pricing conditions that exist at the time of the new purchase."

Note: he is addressing Sparpreis tickets, not normal or full fare tickets.

I think this means that if the price has gone up (lower priced tickets sold out) since you bought the original ticket, you must pay the difference between what you paid and the new price. This is what I would have expected and previously believed, and being right there at the Munich Hbf he should have access to the official information, but it is not what the AGB explicitly says. For the exchange of a Sparpreis ticket before the day of validity, the AGB only says that there is a 17,50 fee. OTOH, the AGB does explicitly say that to exchange an online normal fare ticket on or after the 1st day, you must pay the price difference. Of course, if it is for the same people, route, type of train, and class (the only exchange you can make with a Sparpreis ticket) it would usually be the same price. Exchanging a normal fare ticket and having to pay a price difference would only occur it you wanted to change the destination, route, switch from an IC to an ICE, or upgrade the class.

As for the DB assigning you to a different train when they caused you to miss the ticketed train, I got to experience this in 2008 going from Walkenried to Karlsruhe with a change in Northeim. The regional train from Walkenried to Northeim was delayed, and I missed the IC from there to Karlsruhe. The clerk at the ticket counter checked his computer to see that the regional train indeed had arrived late and marked my ticket for the following train to Karlsruhe, an ICE. Ironically, when I bought the original ticket, I wanted the ICE connection because it gave me more time to change in Northeim, but the 29€ tickets had sold out for that connection and the Sparpreis fare was 39€, so I bought the IC connection at 29€.

Incidentally, while researching this "condition" on the Bahn AGB, I noticed something new. It now says that Sparpreis (Savings Fare) tickets must be purchased at least one day in advance. This is a change from the previous rule that said that Sparpreis tickets had to be purchased 3 days in advance. I tested this using a trip from Frankfurt to Munich tomorrow, and it did offer me Sparpreis fares. The Bahn website (Angebotskontitionen > Vorkaufszeitraum) also shows this.

I would like to make a side point about refunds in those "sorry" situations - and that is that failure to use a Sparpreis ticket on the day of travel does not always mean the Sparpreis ticket is useless.

Let's say you're a Rick-nik traveling with your significant other from St. Goar to Rothenburg on a Sparpreis ticket that cost you €49 for two adults. But you miss your 8:19 train that morning for whatever reason, and it's your fault. Does that mean you have to absorb the €49 loss and now have to pay the standard fare of €61 each - a total expenditure of €171?

No. DB may want you to think that's your only option, but it's not. Lots of Sparpreis tickets actually involve REGIONAL connecting trains. DB won't let you ride a different high-speed train that is not on your Sparpreis itinerary, but the DB approach to your regional train legs is lenient. As long as you travel the exact same train route on your Sparpreis ticket, you can substitute ANY regional trains on the same day for the regional trains that were scheduled on your original Sparpreis ticket. With Sparpreis tickets, DB only requires that you do the regional legs on the same day - so those Sparpreis legs are still valid. For the above itinerary, all except the #2 leg are regional:

1. St. Goar - Mainz
2. Mainz - Würzburg (ICE)
3. Würzburg - Steinach
4. Steinach - Rothenburg

So you could eat your €49 cost, and use it for 3 travel legs; a full-fare ticket on the ICE train for leg #2 for two (€82) means a total cost of €131.

The other thing you could do is use regional trains only. Leg #2 at full fare costs €33.30 each from DB, so for two, €66.60 + €49 = €115.60 total cost. You may get away with much less than €66.60, however. On Sat or Sun you can get a Happy weekend ticket (a day pass) to cover ALL the regional trains - €44 for two, total cost of €93. On weekdays the Quer durchs Land (good after 9 am only) does the same thing for more - €52 for two, total cost of €101

Wiser yet would be to do leg #2 using the same regional trains with an RMV ticket (€16.20 for two to Kahl) + a Bayern Ticket for two to cover Kahl-Würzburg (€28.) (Both can be bought in Frankfurt, and there's no need to get off in Kahl.) These tickets + €49 for the sparpreis ticket does the job for a total cost of €93.20.

(I would likely do one of the regional train options myself; the regional trains from Mainz to Würzburg add only a little time to the trip.)
Of course, not all Sparpreis journeys will depend so heavily on regional trains. But any Sparpreis ticket that uses regional trains may still have some value, and if you end up in this situation, you may still have some reasonable options.

I can't find an RMV fare of 16,20€ for two from Mainz to Kahl. In fact I can't find any fare on the RMV website for Mainz to Kahl since they are "either partially or completely outside the area in which the RMV rates apply." I do see 16,20€ for two from Mainz to Frankfurt Hbf and 16,20€ for two from Frankfurt Hbf to Kahl, or 32,40 for two for Mainz to Kahl with two separate tickets. That makes the cost of the RMV + Bayern-Ticket + the original Sparpreis ticket 109,40€.

The full fare cost of St Goar to Rothenburg, including the ICE from Mainz to Würzburg, is 122€ for two. If you use the Zusatzkarte, you will pay the difference between your original 49€ and the full fare, or 73€, plus the 17,50€ penalty, or 100,50€.

I wonder if you could pay the 17,50€ and trade in the Sparpreis ticket for a Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket or Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket, for no or 3€ difference respectively. That would make it 66,50 or 69,50 euro respectively.

Lee is correct about the price of the Sparpreis + RMV + Bayern ticket option between Mainz and Würzburg. €109.40 total. (Musta had a DB window open with a Frankfurt start.) Good catch, Lee. Even so, it's still a €61+ savings over full fare on the high speed equipment. (I think my other numbers are correct.)

The point again is that if you miss a train, there might be some value to your seemingly worthless Sparpreis ticket as well as some reasonable options for reaching your destination.

Re: the Zusatzkarte: my post adddresses only the "Sorry" situations at the bottom of Laura's 1:05 post where no Zusatzkarte option exists - see my line 1.

Lee's question about getting a HW or QDL ticket w/ the Zusatzkarte option is an interesting one. I suspect the answer is likely "no." From Laura's post:

The calculation of the price for a Zusatzkarte depends on the 17.50 fee, the normal price of a ticket, and the (deducted) value of the original ticket.

"...the normal price of a ticket" probably refers to the DB German term "Normalpreis" or "Standard Fare" on the English itinerary page. Still, it might be a question worth asking.

I just read on bahn.de that the sparpreis fares are now available from 91 days (not 92) until 1 day prior to trip.

"...Sparpreis fares are now available from 91 days (not 92) until 1 day prior to trip. "

One day in advance is correct. It was just changed from 3 days in advance. However, don't worry so much about the exact date requirements. When you go to book, the Bahn website will enforce the limits. I'm never quite sure how to determine 91 or 92 days I just look for the date I want, and if it says "sale from [date] possible", I just wait for that date.

And remember, their days begin and end differently than ours. (like midnight there is 6 PM eastern time. So 10 PM might be the day before here, but not there.)

Recently an Irish colleague of mine needed to change a Sparpreis ticket. Here is what we found out:

• It's easiest to change or refund through the exact same channel the booking was made. So if the booking was made online it's easiest to cancel the ticket online - refund will be transferred back to the credit card the money came from in the first place. If you can only ask for refund at the train station make sure you carry the exact credit card that was used as form of payment.

• Sparpreis can be refunded up until the day before the travel was meant to take place. But DB keeps €17.50 as handling feee.

• However, you can also upgrade your Sparpreis ticket to a regular one, even on the day the travel was meant to be. It's at the discretion (and the capability) of the clerk in the ReiseZentrum (in the train station) whether or not they do it. But they wouldn't even have to take a handling fee.