German rail pass (point to point or a general pass?) Saver pass?

Adults over 25 can certainly ride in second class, but you cannot buy a second-class pass. The adult pass comes in first class only. So you will be paying first class prices to ride in second class with your kids if you get 2d class passes for them. Or you could pay the exta to get 1st class passes for them. Neither way you will be throwing money away.

Just one more reason NOT to buy passes for travel in Germany.

Meant to add----since you have hotels booked your travel dates are set. It shouldn't be hard to commit to a particular train each day to get the significantly lower prices for advance purchase tickets. We like to take trains that depart around 10-11 am, after checkout time and not so early we have to rush around. If itis a journey longer than an hour or so, we buy sandwiches on the way to the station and have a picnic lunch on the train.

Sasha's note is not correct. The Germany Pass comes in 2nd class for travelers of any age and each pair will also save with the Twin discount. The pass covers the route between Munich and Salzburg, but you wouldn't get a pass unless you have longer trips planned within Germany. It's pretty easy to add up regular/flexible fares from our map at http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/germany-rail-passes. The German Pass is a good value for longer trips, $212 per person for three travel days, extra days much cheaper, and 7- and 10-day version discounted for winter travel.

For going Munich- Salzburg and back, the Bavaria Ticket is the best option only 35 Euro for all 4 of you per day. Let us know you route and we can give more recommendations.

Before you jump on a pass, consider some of your routes can be done using regional day tickets. FI, Munich to Salzburg can be done with Guten-Tag day pass using Meridian trains (not ICE or Railjet express trains) for a single price of 33 euro. If a week day, travel after 9 am, if a weekend, any time. So that would cover going and returning for 66 euro. 2 less days of GRP needed. You may have other opportunities if you post your itinerary. Website (in German) is here. Use google translate, but the price list is clear in any language.

Also, if your lodging is fixed, everyday you change locations, you can check out at noon say, and you cannot check in until 3 pm at your destination, so just pick an early afternoon departure. Then go to www.bahn.com and see if there are any nonrefundable deals. Mid afternoon travel is often the cheapest, as business people traveling on expense account like to get going early in the morning, and return at the end of the business day. Do a little research and you just might find substantial savings over the GRP.

Hi,

If you decide on a Bayern Pass, such as for going between Munich and Salzburg, keep in mind that the Bayern Pass is not valid on the Rail Jet train, in case you hop on that. Announcements to that effect are made on the RJ train in German and English.

"For going Munich- Salzburg and back, the Bavaria Ticket is the best option"

Actually, there is now a slightly better option than the Bayern-Ticket. Meridian, which operates the regional trains between Munich and Salzburg, offers a Tageskarte (day ticket), called the Guten-Tag-Ticket, for their track network, which includes Munich and Salzburg for 2€ less, 33€ for four people.

"We know where we are going and have all of our hotels reserved..."

And if you share those specific plans here, you are much more likely to get better, more specific advice. Like the relatively pricey German Railpass, these regional and local passes offer good flexibility, but they have other big pluses that railpasses do not - they allow use not only of the trains, but of trams, buses, subways, etc., just in case those hotels you've booked aren't next to the train station, or just in case you don't feel like walking across Munich or Nuremberg or wherever to see this sight or that sight. And you can buy them on the spot in Germany - no need to print and carry them around. The prices are the same no matter when you buy them, and they never sell out.

But there are so many regional pass options that there is no way to advise you properly without your day-by-day itinerary. So unless your trip involves spying on the Merkel government :) I think you should post it.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but does anybody know if the German Rail Pass works on the railjet between Munich and Salzburg? We have an extra day on our pass, and trying to decide which day to use it vs. a regional pass. (using the pass for long rides between regions). We were considering it for the trip between Munich and Salzburg as the railjet saves an hour on the roundtrip.

"does anybody know if the German Rail Pass works on the railjet between Munich and Salzburg? "

After extensive research of the websites, I have to say, "I don't know." No one says definitively "yes" or "no". I've traveled this route many times, always with a Bayern-Ticket, not a rail pass (in fact, I haven't used a rail pass anywhere since 2000). However, the RailJet only runs every 2 hours, and on the alternate hour, German Rail runs an EC that is only 11 minutes slower to Salzburg than the RailJet, and the German Rail Pass is valid for the EC.

With the RailJet you either have to catch the train at 7:30 or get to Salzburg at 11 AM; the EC leaves at 8:18 and gets to Salzburg at 10:00, possibly a more convenient time.

Another thing to consider, the RailJet goes only between Munich Hbf and Salzburg. Both the EC and the Meridian regional trains stop at Ost Bahnhof. If you are staying around Marienplatz, you'd be backtracking to go to the Hbf to go to Salzburg. Instead take an S-Bahn to Ost. The time difference to Salzburg from Marienplatz via the Hbf or Ost is just a few minutes. I think Ost is a little better station for changing trains, particularly from an S-Bahn.

thanks Lee! We're staying 1 block from the Hbf. You're probably right about the convenience of the times. Have to give it some more thought.

Seems like the Railjet is OK as far as Salzburg. Reference here.

Thank you so much for all of your help! Here is our itinerary:
Thursday Dec. 18: Arrive in Frankfurt at 8:30 am and leave on next train to Bacharach
Thursday, Dec. 18 and Friday, Dec. 19. Stay in Bacharach (stay @Hotel (Bacharach) Kranenturm)
Saturday Dec. 20 to Heidelberg for a 1/2 day visit and then to Rothenburg odT (stay @Altfrankische-Weinstube)
Sunday Dec. 21 Rothenburg odT (stay @Altfrankische-Weinstube)
Monday Dec. 22 to Nuremberg (stay @Jugendherberge Youth Hostel) (We're going with a 21 and 24 y/o guys--Thought a YH would be a good experience for when they come back on their own. Wondering if this hostel is close to center of Nuremberg?)
Tuesday Dec. 23 Nuremberg (Move on to Castle hotel Colmberg for one night.)
Wed., Dec. 24 leave for Salzburg (Stay @Hotel Stein)
Thurs., Dec. 25 Salzburg (Hotel Stein)
Fri., Dec. 26 Salzburg (Hotel Stein)
Sat., Dec. 27 Salzburg to Munich (may want an extra day in Salzburg and leave for Munich on Sunday.) If we're still in Munich-(Stay @Motel One Munchen Sendlinger Tor)
Sun., Dec. 28 Munich (Stay @Motel One Munchen Sendlinger Tor)
Mon., Dec. 29 Munich (Stay @Motel One Munchen Sendlinger Tor)
Tuesday leave to fly back home.
Would love any rail help and advice! Also, are there areas in our travels that it would be better to rent a car?
PS…We've all been to Munich before, Neuschwanstein Castle, HBH and Dachau. Are thinking we may want one more day in Salzburg instead of Munich. We are planning to go to Berchtesgaden while in Salzburg and Garmisch Partenkirchen from Salzburg or Munich. (I can't remember right now which.)
Thanks!!

Ok , these are short hauls.

They have something called a Quer-durch-Lands ticket that allows you to travel regional trains (no ICE or IC trains) for 44 euro plus 8 euro for each additional person. On weekdays, you have to travel after 9 am. That would cover Frankfurt airport to Bacharach.

On Saturday, to hit Heidelberg and on to Rothenburg, they have something called a Schoenes Wochende ticket (Happy Weekend ticket). Then you can travel anytime for 44 euro total for up to 5 people traveling together. That would definitely fit the bill.

Can you change the res date on the castle Hotel Colmberg? Its just 10 miles from Rothenburg. Here a car would come in handy as it is out in the country. Then go to Nuremberg and drop the car. Now the rest of the trip is in Bavaria, so you can travel daily on the Bayern Ticket. 23 euro for the first person and 4 euro for each additional person, that is 33 euros each travel day.

A new option is the Guten Tag ticket for service between Munich and Salzburg. You save a whole 2 euros over the Bayern Ticket (Yee Haw!!).

All of these tickets do not obligate you to any schedule except after 9 am weekdays so you don't compete with the commuters. You buy them out of a vending machine at the stations in the morning. If you buy from a ticket agent, there is a 2 euro service charge.

Going this way will be way cheaper than getting a Saver German Rail pass for 4 people.

Edit. The normal fare for Frankfurt to Bacharach is 11.20 per person, so that is 44.80 total. I come up with a total cost for your 5 days travel of just under 190 euros. Two German Twin Rail Passes covering 4 people for 5 days is 712 euros. So I think there are some savings to be had.

Thursday Dec. 18: Frankfurt to Bacharach
RMV Group Day ticket (Gruppentageskarte) 5 Personen: €31.90 total
(RMV is the local transit authority; buy ticket at a ticket machine at FRA's Regionalbahnhof station. QDL ticket works and individual RMV ticket work too but both are more costly.)

Saturday Dec. 20 to Heidelberg for a 1/2 day visit and then to Rothenburg odT
This really isn't a very good idea at all no matter how you slice it. With the Happy Weekend ticket (€44) it is cheap, but you will spend 7 hours on 6-7 different regional trains to do this route. Leave 7:37 am, arrive H'erg 10:39 for a 4-hour visit, leave H'berg 14:55, arrive R'burg 18:49. The high-speed train alternative saves you only one hour, as some legs to Rothenburg are slow-train only anyway.

A good alternative for this trip would be to use the HW ticket and visit Würzburg (a fine city right on the most direct route to Rothenburg) instead of Heidelberg. This brings train travel time down to 5 hours; with a 4-hour stay in W'burg, you could leave Bacharach at 7:37 and reach Rothenburg by 16:49 using only 4 separate trains.

Monday Dec. 22 to Nuremberg (stay @Jugendherberge Youth Hostel)
Bayern ticket for 4 persons, €35, leave after 9 am.
The hostel is at the far edge of the old town - a long walk from the station. The Bayern Ticket would allow you to use city transport to the nearest stop.

Tuesday Dec. 23 Nuremberg (Move on to Castle hotel Colmberg for one night.)
Yes, this should change. But from Nuremberg: Bayern ticket again. Train to Ansbach, bus to Colmberg. Both train and bus are covered. Not sure about getting to the castle itself from Colmberg town - not far - maybe taxi?

Wed., Dec. 24 leave for Salzburg
Bayern ticket again. But this is 5+ hours, 1 bus from Colmberg + 3 more regional trains. Bayern ticket not good for local transit within Salzburg.

Sat., Dec. 27 Salzburg to Munich (may want an extra day in Salzburg and leave for Munich on Sunday.) If we're still in Munich-(Stay @Motel One Munchen Sendlinger Tor)
Guten Tag Ticket (see Lee's post above) €33

Tuesday leave to fly back home.
MVV Airport-city Day ticket, €21.30 for "Partner" version covers 4 of you.

If I understand your trip, my math says you have 7 travel days and your tickets would be about €235 total.
However, I think the itinerary needs some work (Colmberg, and with so many fine options in Bavaria - Bamberg, Regensburg and others - I question the need for a long trip to Salzburg.)

The German Pass does work on all Munich-Salzburg train services, including RailJet. If you're using a pass, then locals recommend choosing the RailJet departure just because its a newer, fancier train, especially if you have a 1-st class pass. Travel time is 15 - 30 minutes faster than the other options. Seat reservation not required. Or, just show up and take the first train departing.

German Railpasses for this itinerary?? Really? At DB, the cheapest possible 7-day 1st-class German railpass (for two adults) goes for €580, or €430 in 2nd class. Then the two under 26 would cost €580 1st class or €215 2nd class. Altogether, that's...
€1160 total in 1st class - or...
€645 total in 2nd class...
...for your group of four. Raileurope will likely be more expensive than DB. You can check. Yes, you will save a little travel time here and there using railpasses. You can check that too using the DB website (specify "only local transport" under "means of transport" for all your journeys.)
But with the local/regional pass strategy at €235 total for the whole group, is the time saved worth the additional €400 - €900 you'll spend on German railpasses? If you check, I think you'll find that yours is just one more situation where the German railpass isn't remotely competitive with buy-on-the-spot options.

@ Russ

I am definitely on the same page as you on this one. My reading of the GRP pricing page is that the 2nd cl Youth 7-day pass is 215 euro per person, thus 430 euro for 2, making it exactly the same as the adult 2nd cl 7-day Twin Pass at 430 euro for 2 traveling together at all times. So the cheapest 7-day pass would be 860 euro for the group of 4. The strategy outlined by you above of 235 euro for the group is looking better and better. Almost 75% off! Over 600 euro. Now we're talking real money.

@Sam:

" the 2nd cl Youth 7-day pass is 215 euro per person, thus 430 euro for 2..."
You're quite right, Sam... The youth price of €215 is NOT a twinpass - it's just for 1 youth.

That means the German railpass option is more than three times the price of the local/regional passes.

Thank you all so much! I really appreciate the help. It's kind of confusing for someone not familiar with the trains and the different kinds of passes. You all have been a tremendous amount of help!
~Cynthia

Does anyone have an opinion on renting a car at this time of year? We are considering renting a car from Frankfurt Airport and using while in Bacharach and driving to see the little towns around there, then on to Rothenburg obT and Nuremberg and then taking the train to Salzburg.

@ Laura....the Austria-Germany Pass works on the Rail Jet going from Munich to Salzburg. I used it for that purpose going from Munich to Vienna via Salzburg this past May. On the Rail Jet announcements in German and English were on the loudpeaker and made by train personnel that the Bayern Ticket was not valid. They must have experienced Americans on the RJ with a Pass who believed otherwise.

"They have something called a Quer-durch[s]-Land ticket that allows you to travel regional trains (no ICE or IC trains) for 44 euro plus 8 euro for each additional person. On weekdays, you have to travel after 9 am. That would cover Frankfurt airport to Bacharach."

For Frankfurt airport to Bacharach for 4 people, RMV sells a Gruppentageskarte 5 Personen for 31,90€. It's good for 2nd class on regional trains (incl S-Bahn) with no 9 AM time limitation. It's for up to five people. It's good to Bacharach, but not to St. Goar, which is outside the RNN/RMV shared area.

@ Lee, Ancient history. Russ was all over that one while you were sleeping.

Was on bahn.de today and saw an offer for a 25% discount card -- €19 for a 3-month card plus a coupon for another person to get a card. Offer expires December 31. Run the numbers to see if it works for you.