German Rail Pass or local transportation

Yes, spent 10 minute crafting a detailed reply, then I hit "Send" and saw Rick's prostrate body on the museum floor.

If you want a GRP for flexibility, you only need a 3-day Twin Flexi pass. All other trips are cheaper with local day passes or p-to-p tickets. Use it for Hamburg-Berlin, Berlin-Erfurt, Munich-Brussels.

Amsterdam-Paris buy advance non-refundable tickets as Eurail pass requires very expensive reservations, almost as much as a ticket. Ditto Paris-Bordeaux and back.

Thanks Sam! Your response came through in my email, but when I clicked on the link in the email - yup - just Rick Steves on the floor.
Here is what I think you wrote:
I'll use the EUR price of 416 EUR for a 7 day Flexi 2nd class Twin pass. So you are paying about 30 EUR per person per trip. If any trips cost less than that, you should not use or buy a a pass day. Berlin to Potsdam and back, Erfurt to Bamberg, and Bamberg to Munich can all be done less than 60 EUR for 2 people.

The only trips worth using a pass are Hamburg to Berlin, Berlin to Erfurt, and Munich to Brussels. The 3 day Flexi Twin is 292 EUR.

Buy advance tickets for the Thalys from Amsterdam to Paris. Eurail Pass has very expensive reservation fees. Almost as much as a regular ticket bought well in advance.

"For $241E I can get point to point tickets. But then I don't have travel within the cities."

The German Rail pass does NOT provide inner-city transport (subway, bus or tram) - only the S-Bahn stations are accessible with the GRP. Neither does any type of Eurail pass.

4 journeys are possible with the GRP:

Hamburg - Berlin
Berlin - Erfurt or Bamberg
Erfurt or Bamberg - Munich
Munich - Brussels (you must be careful to route yourself and use the right trains in order to use the GRP for the Belgium portion.)

A 4-day German rail twin pass flexi version will cover these routes and costs €314 at DB. You can do a day trip to Potsdam by Berlin with cheap local tickets; If you do Dresden instead... Dresden would cost more so maybe go with a 5-day GRP if that's your choice (only €21 more than the 4-day pass at €335.)

I did not need a city pass myself for Hamburg. You will likely want one for Berlin because of its size.

I can't advise you about Belgium - Paris - Bordeaux -Munich. The last trip may or may not be possible as a saver fare at DB. The French rail strike may put the vise grips on any plans you make, btw.

Also a GRP does not give free city transport except S-Bahns and they don't get you everywhere.

I did see a special for IRE from Hamburg to Berlin for 14-19euro each. It does take a little longer.

For 425E we can get a twin pass second class for 7 days in a month.

The only transport within cities that is included with a German Rail Pass is by S-Bahn (U-Bahn, trams, and buses are not included with the GRP). You can use your GRP for the S-Bahn within cities, but you will have to use a day of the pass, and that is usually much more expensive than a local pass (eg, an MVV Tageskarte). Local passes in cities include all the transport in the city. If you get point-point tickets, you can specify any S-Bahn station within the city as your destination.

We will have a car in Munich to explore Bavaria.

Bavaria is perhaps the last place in Europe where you need a car. The Bahn has a thousand stations in Bavaria; you are never far from one. Plus Bavarian travel is augmented by an extensive system of buses. I've spent over 3 months (cumulatively) traveling in Bavaria without ever needing a car, and the average population town for my overnight stays has been less that 8000.

Are Erfurt and Bamberg together in one travel day? Why a German pass for 7 days in a month? I don't count that many trips on your list. Don't add extra pass days just for travel within a city; only for the longer travel days.

How old is the teen? A free child travels with you on one adult German Rail Pass if they are under age 12 - meaning no need to pay for Twin. Or, your own child or grandchild can travel free with you on point-to-point tickets in Germany if they are under 15.

Why Munich twice and at which point do you have the car? (I mean, are there no side trips by train during the later, 4-day stay?)

Even if only one person is traveling Munich-Brussels, I would still count it. It's the longest, most expensive of your rides that could be covered by a German Twin Pass.

Are your ticket estimates for advance-discount rates and are you ready to book them soon? Full-fare ticket price in Germany are more like this, for one adult, roughly:

• Hamburg-Berlin $90
• Berlin-Erfurt-Bamberg $160
• Bamberg-Munich $60
• Munich-Brussels $220 Total = $530 for one adult

Your trip plan seems circuitous and also Bordeaux-Paris was not mentioned on the now-missing Forum post. Why twice in Paris? Why not fly from Bordeaux to Munich? Are you ready to book these train rides soon? You might go ahead to do so and take those out of the equation and eliminate the need for seat reservation fees.

A Global pass is not usually cheaper than a Select Pass for Germany-Benelux-France, although the prices are quite similar during the current sale.

Thanks!

*Good to know that GRP within cities is only Sbahn.

I rechecked my prices on bahn.de for a 7 day flexi GRP twin and it is still 425 euro. It is 225 for youth and 280 for adult.
On the RailEurope website prices are higher, same pass for twin is 485 euro. 256 for youth and 256 for adult. Wow. Big difference.
I picked 7 day mainly for comparison purposes but also originally thinking I could use it within a city or from Berlin to Dresden or Potsdam. Rethinking that.

So for 5 day on bahn.de: Twin is 340 euro, 185 for youth, 230 for adult (just to see the benefit of twin)
on RailEurope: Twin 388 euro, adult 211, 211 for youth, 262 for adult

The teen turns 16 during our trip.

"Why Munich twice and at which point do you have the car?
First the car - we will be in Munich for two days without the car. Pick up another family member for a 5 day visit and staying with family in Chiemsee. then back to Munich and on to Brussels for one and home for the other two.

Second trip to Munich is with a different person who has never been. We will stay again with family in Chiemsee and tour Bavaria-much more of a castle person.

"Are your ticket estimates for advance-discount rates and are you ready to book them soon? Full-fare ticket price in Germany are more like this, for one adult, roughly:

Hamburg-Berlin $90
Berlin-Erfurt-Bamberg $160
Bamberg-Munich $60
Munich-Brussels $220 Total = $530 for one adult"

I may be looking at the wrong trains or slower ones????? Or maybe specific train, non refundable. This is why I need you all!
I looked online and found a 14euro ticket on IRE, to be booked NOW, for Hamburg to Berlin.
Berlin-Erfurt-Bamberg I was quoted 15 euro for one to Erfurt and another 15 euro to Bamberg. (rounded numbers)
Bamberg to Munich, I was quoted 30 euro for two.
Didn't look at the Munich to Brussels. yet. That alone might make the GRP beneficial.

In response to Laura:
"Your trip plan seems circuitous and also Bordeaux-Paris was not mentioned on the now-missing Forum post. Why twice in Paris?"

With friends and they are flying out of Paris. We have been there and don't need to spend as much time there. Flying from Paris to Munich. We are using miles and there weren't flights from Bordeaux to Munich at that time. I also could NOT for the life of me find a way home(with miles). The only trip I could find home was from Munich. Figured that would work as we could stay with family and it was a cheap flight from Paris.

" Are you ready to book these train rides soon? You might go ahead to do so and take those out of the equation and eliminate the need for seat reservation fees." Yes. If I book now I don't need to make seat reservations?

"A Global pass is not usually cheaper than a Select Pass for Germany-Benelux-France, although the prices are quite similar during the current sale." Yes, now it does seem cheaper with the sale.

"I rechecked my prices on bahn.de for a 7 day flexi GRP twin and it is still 425 euro. It is 225 for youth and 280 for adult."

My question is the same as Laura's. I don't see why you are concerned about a 7-day pass when a twin pass for 5 days flexi will cover the longish trips at €335. You might as well include the Bamberg-Munich trip as a 5th day onthe rail pass - it adds only €21 to the cost of the 4-day pass, and it permits you to use the fast trains at any hour (unlike the Bavaria ticket day pass.)

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/passes/german-rail-pass-conditions.shtml?dbkanal_007=L04_S02_D002_KIN0060_GERMAN-RAIL-KONDITIONEN_LZ01

Buying a rail pass in Germany isn't a bad idea - you can ask questions and get tips for use in person. The FRA airport station "Reisezentrum" offices are GRP aid offices:

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/mdb/bahnintern/international/redaktion_bahn.com/pdf-datein/pdf_2018/mdb_268060_grpaidofficesliste2018.pdf

I rechecked prices because someone said they didn't seem accurate and I didn't want to go back and redo research for the 5 day which I didn't have written down. Originally I was thinking I might need 7 days so that is what I had written in my notes (also had 10 day and 15 day), had also thought about a day trip from Hamburg to Lubeck and one from Munich to Salzburg. And I was thinking I would need a day or two of travel to get to an airport. As it is now, it looks like the 5 day would be enough.
1 Hamburg-Munich
2 Munich-Erfurt and Bamberg
3 Bamberg to Munich
4 Munich area to airport (will be in Chiemsee - may or may not have a car)
5 Munich to Brussels (train - because it was included in the GRP)

Have you pulled the day trip to Dresden off the table? I was thinking of Dresden as the 5th rail pass day. If you are keeping Dresden, you could use GRP day #5 for that and pay separately for the trip to MUC (which on a day pass is in the €20 - €30 range, depending on your starting point.)

Russ - yes we have pulled Dresden off the table instead going to Erfurt/Bamberg.

thank you all for your help. The two brain cells I have left keep fighting and it makes planning difficult ;-)