From dortmund: is Baden Baden worth a trip?

Baden Baden nice place to stay a few nights but a 4 to 5 hrs drive from Dortmund

Half the way is Koblenz (2hrs drive)and the Middle Rhine "Gorge"

Very scenic and some nice villages nearby like Boppard on the Rhine River to stay for a night or 2 in Bellevue Rheinhotel

Taking the direct train to Koblenz doesnt change much in travelling time 2hrs
Going to Baden Baden from Dortmund direct to Karlsruhe and change to Baden Baden 4 hrs

Thanks for the reply!

I think we might travel to Baden Baden from Dusseldorf… I’m thinking train. A bit concerned about driving in Germany (maybe it’s easy and should have no concern!)

Another option is to visit Aachen…

Any hotel recommendations in Aachen or Vaden Baden?

Thanks!

Baden-Baden works if you want spas and casinos but it's a long trip. You haven't said what type of outing you want... What are your criteria?? There are many different options that are much closer. The Rhine Gorge (Upper Middle Rhein Valley) is a good suggestion if you aren't sure... think old-world towns, medieval castles, hiking/biking, river cruises, wineries... train lines on both riverbanks and ferry crossings make getting around without a car a good option. Boppard and St Goar... both are handy towns stay in. Map:

http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/walking-hiking.php

This is my top pick for St Goar:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/HotelHighlight-g198631-d679860-Reviews-Rheinhotel_St_Goar-Sankt_Goar_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

Thanks!
Yes, I haven’t said what kind of travel. Sorry!

I’m visiting my son studying in dortmund. He says it’s not too pretty there, and wanted a short trip to see nature, old historic towns, culture… he loved the idea of Black Forest but I think that’s too far…

He’s seen Düsseldorf and Cologne so those 2 are out…

Thanks!!

In that case I think you can't do better than the Rhine Gorge south of Koblenz.

Dortmund and the Ruhr area have, let's say, a hidden charm :-) I like the area because it seems a bit rough and not as clean and cute as my home region of Bavaria. I especially like the industrial culture and places like the World Heritage Site 'Zeche Zollverein' (former coal mine).

THANKS so much for feedback!
To visit the Rhine Gorge ....would it be best to rent a car or take a train from Dusseldorf?
How difficult is to drive in Germany? Are all high ways without speed limit?
Thanks ;-)

There is a direct train to Koblenz from Dortmund Central station via Düsseldorf
Stay either in Koblenz itself or the villages along the Rhine River southwards

You can go to the little villages south from there on the river Rhine

see bahn.de website for connections

To be more flexible rent a car and go all the way from Dortmund or Düsseldorf to Koblenz on theA1 and then A3 Autobahn
and further on to Boppard and some smaller villages on secondary B9 road along the river

In both cases about 2,5hrs time of travel

The standard answer is go to the Rhine, but that's really not the best. East of Dortmund there's a number of really nice places to visit without spending 4-5 hours on a train. Go visit Bielefeld; the NYT just did a couple articles on what to see there. Or Hannover, which I visited for a couple days just two months back. Or Paderborn, Hamm, or Wiedenbruck; all of which will give you the half timbered houses, a castle, etc. And you can do these all in less than 2 hours on the cheaper, regional, trains.

Once you get out of the Ruhr valley industrial area, that section of Germany is quite nice. No need for another hotel room, you can easily base yourself from Dortmund. But if you go to Hannover, and want to stay over, I used the Sheraton, because it's in an old Pelikan pen factory and the rooms were great. Plus the city tram stops right outside so it's easy to get around.

The standard answer is go to the Rhine, but that's really not the
best.

Well, the "best" is a superlative that is subject to the specific interests of the traveler, IMHO.

I suggest you take a look at the NY Times article KGC provides for Bielefeld, cs2dz. See what you think about Bielefeld, Hannover, etc.

Like a lot of large German cities, Cologne, Hannover and Düsseldorf included, Bielefeld was bombed mercilessly, much of its past destroyed, then rebuilt in the 50's and 60's. More than 340,000 residents live there today, about half as many as Düsseldorf has. So just on the surface, while Bielefeld might be interesting to visit on some level, it might not be what you and your son had in mind. You wrote:

"...He’s seen Düsseldorf and Cologne so those 2 are out…a short trip to see nature, old historic towns, culture… he loved the idea of Black Forest but I think that’s too far…"

In Germany, you do not have to settle for large post-war-constructed cities with populations in the hundreds of thousands. You CAN still see small, intact historic towns with buildings that have seen hundreds of years of history - and there's a pleasant cluster of these places along the Rhine. I will mention just 3 of them:

1) Osterspai: I spent a few nights here at a local B&B few years ago. The video includes shots of Boppard as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4E5FyzrK98

2) Braubach: just downstream from Osterspai.

https://fotos.schloemp.eu/wp-content/gallery/braubach/002Braubach-Bauernschaenke-Eck-Fritz.JPG
https://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?thread/7322-braubach-am-rhein-und-marksburg-galerie/ (3 pages of photos!)
Tour Marksburg Castle (800 years old) in Braubach: https://www.marksburg.de/en/circuit/#/

3) Bacharach:

https://media-cdn.holidaycheck.com/w_1024,h_768,c_fit,q_auto,f_auto/ugc/images/3c9cab8b-4d78-3c6d-9714-b8a207a380bf

See also Rick Steves for this town...
https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/articles/rhine-bacharach-germany

Rick on the Rhine more broadly:
https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/articles/rhine-river-raging-with-history

NATURE: There are prized hiking trails all over the place.

The Rhine Castle trail crosses fields and forest as it moves from clifftop to clifftop offers views like this one near St Goar, taken at at one of the rest-stop establishments there:

https://resc.deskline.net/images/RPT/1/3f19633c-54c7-40c6-8493-cf5ef973059f/99/image.jpg

Or take the Chairlift Ride in Boppard for shorter, easier walks on the clifftops with great views, like this one from Gedeonseck terrace: https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/T9oxNMwLvt_-r5nCsce-jg/o.jpg

The train ride along the Rhine from Cologne to Koblenz to Bingen/Rüdesheim is known as the most scenic in all of Germany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31IXzkSdwgs&t=6s

All of the above is why the Rhine IS INDEED a popular destination. It does set the STANDARD for the type of trip you appear to be seeking within spitting distance of Cologne. (That said... of the 3 towns I highlighted, 2 of those are relatively unknown - very "non-standard" rec's, anyway.)

,,,and going by car you can also enjoy stunning views from above the River Gorge
at Günderodehaus near Oberwesel and Maria Ruh near Urbar/St Goar

I def think Rhine River is the better choice than Bielefeld ;o)

@uwe - The photo I posted above for the Rhine Castle trail was taken from Maria Ruh. Nice spot, fine views. The photos at your linked page capture the mood there more fully.

You don't always have to go that far. And you don't always have to go where everyone else goes (at least that's my opinion). If the Zollverein Coal Mine Industrial Complex in Essen doesn't appeal to you, there's other spots in Essen like the Kettwig district, for example. In this blog (in German), someone has compiled a great collection of the beauty of the Ruhr region: https://www.mein-ruhrgebiet.blog/die-fotogensten-altstaedte-im-ruhrgebiet/

Russ is kind enough to point out that Bielefeld really isn't comparable to Bacharach. It isn't. But it's a lot nicer than Dortmund, and so is Hannover. Plus, you have a lot more smaller towns around it. My intention being to provide places of interest not only for those 3-4 days, but places that the son can visit without having to resort to the tourist meccas for his entire stay. And I think it would be nice to explore those as a team.

But to say that the towns along the Rhine didn't get hammered like the big cities is a bit misleading. ALL of the cities mentioned in this thread (so far) suffered extensive damages, and the smaller towns did also. Aachen, Koblenz, and Koln certainly got more damage than Bielefeld did. Because they were manufacturing centers and had bridges over the Rhine. It was the bridges that had places like Bingen and Rudesheim get hit hard (by both sides) and I don't see anyone telling folks not to go there because they've been "rebuilt". The reason you have all the ferries going from places like Rudesheim and St Goar, and numerous other small towns, is that those bridges were destroyed, and never replaced. (Personally I think the ferry operators had a political finger in that.) St Goar got burned, you can find photos of that. Boppard got shot up, and then they built a pontoon bridge there. Oberwesel (further upstream) was pretty well beat up too, shelled for weeks, but it's where Pattons first crossing took place. It's nice, small, there's a simple monument there now, but you'd have a hard time telling what buildings were damaged or were not there prior to 1940.

I listed Bielefeld because it is a nice city, as in Hannover. The architecture isn't cookie cutter, there are some very good examples of post war buildings in both. But just a short drive north (30km) from Bielefeld is the Teutoburger forest, where Rome lost a major battle (and a Legion), and where you can still walk with ghosts in the woods. There's nothing like it in the scenic Rhine valley.

Hamm (30 minutes by car) is midsized now, but was once a very rich city. You can still see this. Paderborn's worth a visit too, and it's right by the major German military training area, which means it's basically surrounded by forest. Wiedenbrück gives you, as I said before, a castle, original old buildings, and history (they were minting coins here over 1000 years ago) less than an hours drive from Dortmund. And if you want smaller towns, mostly untouched by WWII, there are many to choose from.

Try using the back door, instead of following everyone through the front. You might actually find something the crowd will never see. And that's the whole point of this forum, nicht ware?

@mignon youre right but think the author was looking for nature and cute villages not for industrial heritage as the son said Dortmund isnt that nice

Uwe seems you did not open my link.

I am entirely supportive of the kind of off-the-tourist-trail travel KGC and Mignon are promoting on this thread. It is largely true that you can toss a dart at a map of Germany and find some nice old-world buildings, or a neighborhood of such, within a decent travel radius, even in war-ravaged destinations, and these finds can be very rewarding. I have fond memories of stumbling wide-eyed with surprise into delightful places like I'd never read about in guidebooks. Not far from Bielefeld is the town of Rinteln on the Weser River - some stunning buildings there, bucolic scenery nearby, and watersport options too. It's the kind of place that gets overlooked by the crowd that's heading to Pied-Piperville (Hamelin) in the same way that Ochsenfurt and Marktbreit get ignored as tourists streak between Würzburg and Rothenburg. And Rinteln has rail access as well.

And it's also true that the Rhine has some places with black eyes from the war, like Bingen, which KGC mentions ("I don't see anyone telling folks not to go there...") It is not a highlight, a place I would only choose to spend time in for practical reasons (cruising, hiking to Rheinstein Castle, changing trains for a trip up the Nahe River Valley, etc.) And I often counsel others that it may not be worth their time.

But with cs2dz's criteria in mind, I still see the Rhine as the proper all-in-one package for really escaping the city and diving into nature, history and culture. The multifold options here are overwhelming, and UNESCO world heritage status for the Rhine was no accident. And despite its name recognition, the Rhine's back doors still go largely unexplored by most daytripping visitors, who tend to see it only as a day cruise experience. It is vastly more than that.

https://www.mittelrheinentdecken.de/en/

https://welterbedeutschland.de/upper-middle-rhine-valley/