First time to Germany, having issues planning

Hi David,

We've never been to Berlin. We have been to Munich, Fuessen and the Rhine (St. Goar, Bacharach, etc.). I don't see this as a viable itinerary. You have 7 nights total. First 2 in Munich. Then a couple on the Rhine. Then a couple in Berlin. Then back to Munich for a flight home, as you'll need to be in Munich or by the airport on night 7 for the return flight home. That's 1 full day in each place. My opinion, even if you flew home from Berlin, with all the travel, getting new places to stay every other night and then back to Munich, you won't really see anything, except the landscape from the train. I'd think this over again.

Paul

I think you'll be OK. Rather than buy the 10 day GRP at 541 euro, commit your self to a travel schedule and buy the major train trips now, while you can still get low priced nonrefundable tickets. I see you can do Munich to Bacharach for 2 for 53 euro, Bacharach to Berlin for 2 for 89 euro, and Berlin to Munich for 2 for 69 euro. So that is 211 euro and you can do an awful lot with the 330 euro savings over the GRP. Use a Rheinland-Pfalz ticket to tour the Rhine. The entire west bank and almost all of the east bank are in the state of Rheinland-Pfalz. Yes, you will both be on the same train as long as you both board at the same time.
I think your girlfriend will appreciate knowing you have places to stay when you arrive at your destinations. You can always go the www.booking.com and pick one. German hotels are pretty consistent. That can wait and you can mull over options for a few weeks.
You might look at doing a bus tour to Neuschwanstein to save figuring out all the little details like making a reservation, finding your way from the station to the Palace. You can travel around Munich and Berlin with daily transport passes.
I only mention Bacharach because it is popular. There are many other towns on the Rhine that are just as nice and a bit less expensive.

You have about seven nights for four cities/areas and you want to look for hotels once you arrive in each - that can take time. If you want to have flexibility, check booking.com the day before you leave and make a reservation online. I've done this even a couple of hours ahead of arriving.

If you decide to buy saver/economy rail tickets in advance, you will be committing to a specific train departure (unless you are willing to pay for new tickets or make changes for a fee), so why not book hotels ahead as well?

I am with Paul. Too much to see and do in a week. I would focus on a single area around Munich, the Rhine or Berlin. You will be pleased to find the variety of sights to visit in a given area without long transfers. Gary

Considering the travel time between places and the fact that you have only 7 days I would also suggest to focus your time on Munich and area plus ONE extra destination, either Berlin or the Rhineland. At this time of year I would prefer Berlin. Lots of things to do even if the weather is not cooperating. The Rhine is a beautiful destination but in November, it would be difficult to do a boat tour and even the castles have very restricted hours and/or no English tours available.

It's a lot for 7 days and it will require very tight scheduling. But it's certainly possible if you're up to it. Try to use late afternoon/evening trains so that the limited daylight hours at this time of year are spent in the places you're visiting.

11/9: 40-min. ride to Munich Hbf (Munich's main station) from MUC. Drop bags at hotel near station. See Munich.
11/10: Morning in Munich. Check out, travel to Dachau Bahnhof (10-20 min.), stow bags in locker. Lv. Dachau Bahnhof by 16:00 and you'll be in Bingen (or some other nearby Rhine village) at around 21:00. Bingen has a particularly scenic location at the beginning of the scenic section of the Middle Rhine valley, so you're well positioned for a scenic train ride the next morning. Try the Bingen NH hotel, on the river promenade. It's the white building in this photo:
NH Bingen
Rhine near Bingen
11/11: Cruise boats are out but ferries run all day long. Check out. Catch a morning train to St. Goar (20 min.) and watch for castles. Enjoy the view in St. Goar, then catch a ferry over to St. Goarshausen. Walk north to the station and catch a train to Braubach for a tour of Marksburg, a great example of a genuine knights' castle, the only never-destroyed Rhine castle, and the only one open daily for tours at this time of year. The TI office is near the station and will hold your bags.

Marksburg
Catch an afternoon train to Koblenz (10 min.) then a train to Berlin (the 15:43 train from Koblenz puts you 21:08 at Berlin's main station.)
11/12-13: 2 more nights for Berlin. Spend the morning of the 1th there as well. Not much time but you'll have close to 2.5 days there.
11/14: Check out, stow bags in a station locker, see more of Berlin, leave on 14:40 train and you'll be in Munich 6 hours later.
11/15: Day trip to Füssen, final night in Munich again.
11/16: AM train to MUC.

A 10-day pass would be a complete waste of Euros. Your best bet for this is a THREE-DAY German railpass - one day each for Munich-Dachau-Bingen, Bingen-St. Goar-Braubach-Koblenz-Berlin, and Berlin-Munich. The price from DB is €308 total for two on a twinpass. (If you miss a train somewhere and have to take a later one, no big deal with the railpass.) Then you have one day trip to Füssen (Bayern ticket, €27 for two) and two trips from and back to the airport (airport-city day ticket, €21 for two) that you purchase separately in Germany. (You might need a bus ticket for Dachau Bahnhof to Dachau KZ as well.) Oh - and you'll need a couple of Euros to use the St. Goar ferry.

Hi again David,

Russ does lay out a doable plan, but think about the logistics and how much you'll really get to experience on this trip you're thinking about. It gets dark around 4:30pm and there's no time to relax, walk around, have dinner, etc.

Day 1 You'll have what's left of the day you arrive from your flight in Munich.
Day 2 Check out is normally 10am. Then see what you can and head to Dachau. Leave Dachau by 4pm and arrive in Bingen at 9pm. Where's dinner, on the train? After arriving in Bingen at 9pm, you need to find your place to stay, check in, etc.
You have about 7 hours for Munich and Dachau on day 2.
Day 3 Morning in Bingen check out (13 hours after arriving), look around a bit, see Marksburg castle and get the 3:43pm train to Berlin. Arrive Berlin at 9:08pm. Dinner on the train again? Finding your hotel after arriving at the Berlin train station at 9:08pm. Checking in, etc.
You have maybe 6 or 7 hours in the Rhine area total.
Day 6 Leave Berlin at 2:40pm and arrive in Munich at 8:40pm. Get to your hotel, check in, etc. Dinner on the train once again?
Day 7 Head to Fuessen in the morning for what will be the better part of the day. Arrive back in Munich in time to get ready for the early flight home.

If this is your type of traveling, that's fine. Just be sure this is how you'd like to spend your time.

I too think 7 days for this much traveling is a bit too much. But if the OP is, as I said, "up to it" - willing to keep a less leisurely pace than I would prefer - it doesn't seem unreasonable, especially when you consider some of the aggressive Rick Steves bus tour itineraries, like the 14-day tour that packs in Germany-Switzerland-Austria and involves travel legs of similar length (4-7 hours) and some one-night stops.

The OP WILL have to find accommodations near the station to make this work, and WILL have to eat on a dining car or picnic enroute for an evening meal. (Since Germans traditionally take main meals around mid-day and do Abendbrot (sandwiches, roughly) etc. in the evenings, this doesn't seem to me a radically important concern.) After seeing Marksburg, the OP might stop in Braubach's market square for a warm (indoor) meal:

Marktplatz

Braubach probably won't look like this in November but it will still be too cold for al fresco:

Braubach in winter

And then before catching your train to Berlin, pick up something to go at the Koblenz train station at Yorma's or one of the other shops:
Yorma's in Koblenz station

You can buy beer at station kiosks and shops too. Then slurp your favorite brew and munch your way on the train to Berlin or wherever. I can think of worse ways to travel long distances (like on a tour bus or in a cramped airline seat with security, ground connections, etc.)

But yeah, you can drop one of your destinations and have a much more leisurely trip, David. Just depends on what you want.

Hey Russ,

I get it.
Just trying to give him as clear a picture as possible. I just think David and his partner should be prepared and be ok with what type of trip this really will be. No disrespect for your knowledge of train travel and planning at all. We've been to Germany many times, in the spring, fall and in late Nov. and Dec. We enjoy going out to dinner, maybe David doesn't care. I don't know. More info and opinions give him a better picture, that's all.

Two things to think about…instead of wasting a day trying to get to Berlin in the daytime, take an overnight train there and that will be your hotel for the night. You can get a sleeping car and wake up in the morning and your there without wasting precious time trying to get there. (Check to see how long it takes to travel from Munich to Berlin.) Also, you may be there in time for the Christmas Markets. I believe they start in November. This can actually be a busy tourist time of year in Germany. And try to go to see at least one of them. Munich will have one but from what I hear, the best are in Freiburg and Nuremberg. But people love the one in Munich. I've been to both cities. Both are worth seeing, I would agree. Berlin does have GREAT nightlife but I'm not sure how old your daughters are. If they are younger teens, I wouldn't hit that scene. The drinking age in Germany, I believe, is 16 although it may have changed to 18 in January '14. I have no idea how strict it is. Lots of history in both cities. Munich is very charming along with an important visit to Dachau, a German concentration camp. Talk about history! It's not gruesome but extremely informative and eye opening. We took our teen boys at 13 and 15 and they were fine. We went to the Hofbrau house afterwards to lighten the mood. Also, fun to see (although I don't know how active it will be that time of year) is the surf wave in the river that runs through the Englishergarden. One of our boys surfed so he was really amazed that people surfed in a river but it gathered a crowd to watch. Not just tourists. Neuschwanstein Castle is a must see and you can do a luge on your way there (if it's open that time of year.) It probably depends on snow. We did this with our boys and they, and we loved it. We are going this December with them again. They are now 21 and 23 and are going to see the Christmas Markets in Nuremberg and Freiburg ( and WWII history, and Castles, then down to Munich (and lots in between) and then on to Salzburg (which is stunningly beautiful! And very close to Munich.) We are also heading to Berchtesgaden, Germany where the salt mines are, and where so many of the treasures from the Louvre were hidden from the Nazis during the war. Even though the Nazis were stationed close by, they never thought to look there! It's a fun ride on a leather pad strapped to your behind as you slide down a smooth roundish wooden beam (for lack of the right word) into the mines. This would be fun for your girls. (Tip:) When we went years ago with our 13 and 15 year olds, we concentrated on what they would find fun and interesting so we wouldn't be miserable. Turned out WE thought those things were interesting and fun too! Have a great trip!

Just an FYI, the Christmas Markets start the last week of November.

Oops, I don't know why I thought you were traveling with teenagers. Disregard the "travel with teens" advice. Although, seriously, the adventures we had trying to keep our teenage boys happy were super fun! (Also, grammar correction…I can't believe I typed 'your' instead of 'you're'. (I haven't had my coffee yet!)

Having just left the Rhine and Mosel, I suggest eliminating them from your trip for weather reasons. It wouldn't be a nice area in the rain. Focus your time on Munich and Berlin. There's so much to see in both.

"Having just left the Rhine and Mosel, I suggest eliminating them from your trip for weather reasons. It wouldn't be a nice area in the rain."

This advice basically tells you never to plan a visit to the Rhine/Mosel area. On average, it rains 13-17 days every month throughout the year. There is no dry season. My advice is just to have an umbrella handy.

Weather is impossible to try to predict. In late April '05 we had a mild, partly sunny day in Innsbruck and snow by the Stubai Glacier during the same day. This past December, we had a cold, snowy morning in Schonau am Konigsee and the next morning in Ramsau am Dachstein we were wearing short sleeve shirts during a very sunny day with about a foot of snow on the ground. Be prepared for just about anything.

What would you suggest to a European who was coming to the US for the same number of days and wanted to see New York, Nashville, and Miami?

The 9th is a partial day and you will probably be too jet-lagged to accomplish much. You probably leave early on the 16th. So that only gives you six full days. Don't spend half of them traveling all over.

There is plenty to see in Bavaria. Stay there. Spend a few days around Oberammergau, Garmisch, and Mittenwald. Go down to Lindau. See some towns on the Romantic Road. Go to Salzburg and Berchtesgaden.

All that travel can be done with Bayern-Tickets. No need for a rail pass.

There is plenty to see in Bavaria. Stay there.

Agreed. I just got back from nine days in Munich, getting around the MVV network with a seven-day Isar Card, and a couple of days further afield with Bayern-Tickets. Even after nine days I feel like I've just scratched the surface. Photo album here; video here.

My three priorities were:
(1) Avoid crowds of tourists;
(2) Get out among the folks to meet people and practice my lower-intermediate-level German language skills; and
(3) See #1.

So I skipped such things as the Füssen-area castles, Dachau, and the Residenz tour, and still had a very full plate.

Here are a few highlights not mentioned in the guidebooks:

-- Dießen am Ammersee, my favorite Bavarian village ever since a student tour took me there in 1968. It's about 40 km southwest of Munich, on the southwest shore of the Ammersee. It's scenic, historic, authentic, and very friendly. Take the S-8 all the way to the end of the line at Herrsching, on the east shore of the lake, walk a couple hundred meters to the pier on the lakefront, and take one of the beautiful sidewheel steamships across the lake to Dießen.

-- Herrsching itself is nice, too. It's a short bus ride (or 3-mile hike into the forested hills) from Herrsching to Kloster Andechs. During my visit Herrsching had a "Nachtmarkt" on the lakeshore, with live music, food, and booths featuring wares from local artists and merchants.

-- Ingolstadt is the home of the Audi factory. The historic center is appealingly colorful and quiet. Visit the German Museum of Medical History, in an 18th-Century building that once was the Anatomy Building of the University of Ingolstadt. That building is more famous in literature than in real life, as it was the setting for the original Mary Shelley novel, Frankenstein.

-- Bad Wörishofen is a bright, squeaky-clean town an hour's train ride west of Munich. It's a spa town, with a large hot spring/sauna/pool/waterpark complex (overshadowed only by a similar but even larger facility in Erding, northeast of Munich). Go to the outdoor cafe at the small grass-runway airfield in town and watch skydivers do their thing. Buy a ride in a classic 1958 Soviet-built, 11-seat Antonov An-2 biplane, and see Neuschwanstein or the Fünfseenland from the air, in style (advance reservation necessary, see here).

-- Schleißheim Palaces, summer home of the Wittelsbachs, an easy ride on the S-1 from downtown Munich. The palace buildings and grounds are colorful and relatively devoid of tourists. On the grounds are touching memorials to locals lost in 20th-Century wars. In addition to hometown military personnel, the community lost many civilians to the Allied bombing raids in 1943-45. Adjacent to the palaces is Flugwerft Schleißheim, the air museum branch of Deutsches Museum, a must-see for aviation history buffs (like me). The museum is located on Germany's oldest operating airfield.

-- St. Lukaskirche, beautiful candle-lit "Nachtkirche" service in Munich's largest Protestant church (built 1893), 10:00-10:30 PM Thursday nights.

Do some reading up on the history of Munich and Bavaria before you go, and when you get there you'll find something of interest almost everywhere you look.

After talking with the gf, we decided to skip the Rhine and visit it next time. We’re already doing lots of traveling in Spain prior to flying into Germany, so we don’t want to burn ourselves out. We decided we’re going to fly to Berlin once we land in Munich and then fly back to Munich later in the week to finish off our stay in Germany. Not only is it a time saver, it seems to make the most financial sense.

We’ll be in Berlin from Nov 9th to the 12th and will try and see all that we can. Any sites you all recommend we check out? So far the only things I want to see off the top of my head is the Berlin Wall Memorial and maybe take the gf to the shopping district.

We’ll be in Munich from Nov 12th to the 16th (flying home on the 16th). We’ll fit in Dachau and Neuschwanstein in there as day trips if possible. I think the castles are the main priority as far as sites go though. Do you guys recommend renting a car to see the castles, or are they all accessible by train/bus? Are the BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz museums worth checking out? I’m a huge car enthusiast so I’m excited to see them if they are.

Also, thank you all for your invaluable input. I didn’t think trying to plan a vacation would be so stressful, but wow, it really is!

Are the BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz museums worth checking out? I’m a huge car enthusiast so I’m excited to see them if they are.

BMW in Munich has the most interesting, elaborate facilities, and also the most accessible.

The BMW Museum, BMW Welt and factory tour are all grouped together, convenient to the Olympiazentrum stop on the U3. The Museum has an entry fee and more limited hours; BMW Welt is a huge and dramatic showroom, delivery center and exhibition hall, all in one (plus gift shop, food outlets, etc.) -- and it's free. Since BMW also owns Rolls-Royce and Mini, those lines are displayed there too. From BMW Welt a pedestrian bridge takes you across the busy Georg-Brauchle-Ring to the Olympic Tower, for an unexcelled birds-eye view of northern Munich.

As a car aficionado you should also visit the Verkehrszentrum, the transportation branch of the Deutsches Museum. It's just west of the Theresienwiese (Oktoberfest site), a short walk from the Schwanthalerhöhe stop on the U4/U5.

Some photos of BMW Welt and Verkehrszentrum from just last month are here.

wow, you timed your stop in Berlin perfectly!! If you want to prepare yourself for this special day get a couple of movies. The first one is more of a comedy (but with some surprisingly sad moments), the second one rather serious:

Good Bye Lenin
The Lives of Others

If you want to prepare yourself for this special day get a couple of movies.

And for a comedy about Berlin just before the wall went up in 1961, there's James Cagney's classic One, Two, Three. Filming was still in progress when the wall went up, so a mock-up of part of the Brandenburg Gate had to be built elsewhere to finish production.

We took public transportation from Munich to see Neuschwanstein last year. It was affordable and relatively easy. We bought a Bayern pass for the train trip from Munich to Fussen and then took the bus (#73 or #78, I think) from Fussen to the tourist office. From there, we walked to the ticket office and then walked to Neuschwanstein. You can also walk to Hohenschwangau. I think there are also options to take a shuttle bus or a horse-drawn carriage part of the way to Neuschwanstein. It is a beautiful walk.

I highly recommend purchasing Rick's Germany guide. It is very helpful and detailed.

"then took the bus (#73 or #78, I think) from Fussen to the tourist office"

It looks like Bus 73 is the major one, but other bus routes go too. I'm not sure if bus 78 still makes that run. Several others - 9606 and 9651 - do. Several bus routes out of Füssen going east stop in Hohenschwangau, and they arrange it so it's about one every hour. They all leave from bus stop #2, in front of the station, shortly after the train arrives. The bus stop sign has a silhouette of a castle.

Getting to the castles on your own from Munich is easy. This webpage explains it.