First Time to Germany: Berlin - Munich - Rhine Valley

Have you already booked your flight? If not, consider an open-jaw ticket where you fly into Berlin and out of Munich, thus reducing the need to backtrack. I personally would take the train from Munich to Berlin, but many people on this board also drive in Germany with no problems.

Your planning underestimate jetlag and travel times between destinations.

Berlin: you plan just 2 days for the place with the most various historical stories to tell in Europe - of course not the only ones. Munich has not so much to tell historically, less than Nuremberg.

My advice: Spend 3-4 full days (not incl. day of arrival or departure) in Berlin. Visit Bergmann-Kiez Festival. Add 1 day Potsdam and if kids are old / mature enough Oranienburg (Sachsenhausen Memorial) each (still sleep in Berlin, best around station Friedrichstrasse). Skip Munich and visit Erfurt and Nuremberg instead. Much more interesting historically imo. Travel to Frankfurt and maybe do the last full day a Mid Rhine valley boat tour departing from Mainz. Fly out of FRA airport.

Use trains for your domestic travels in Germany.

We are a family of four - two adults and two kids. .

'Two kids' -- big difference if they are 3 and 5 yrs old or 15 and 17 yrs old.

Hi,

If you are backtracking between Munich and Berlin, you also have the night train option, which is direct, when not all day routes are. I've done the night train option Munich to Berlin...no problems.

If you land in Berlin in the morning, I would suggest that 2 pm you could be seeing the Brandenburg Gate from Pariser Platz, right there and up close on the eastern side.

The Tourist Office (one of them) is located just of the columns (east side) of the Brandenburg Gate. Another Tourist Office is in Berlin Hbf (central station), near one of the exits, ie, the Invalidenstrasse exit.

Is this trip June, 2019? You have little time to plan, and it is too late to get discount train tickets or discount air tickets between the widely spaced places you want to visit. Do you have hotel reservations? Does your family need air conditioning?

Having taken the train from Frankfurt to Berlin, I can tell you that it's a long ride. (Meaning Frankfurt is near the Middle Rhine you want to see.) If you already bought your air tickets, I suggest that you eliminate Munich and see it on another visit, maybe one starting in Austria, say. This board has many discussions of the Middle Rhine, just type "Middle Rhine" into the search box top center, or on the page's menu. Then filter for the Travel Forum, or also read our host's EXCELLENT free travel hint pages about the Rhine.

I suggest that you start looking at the Bahn.de website and learn hour the interface works, and try some sample trips to learn how prices vary with the day of the week and the time of day. You also want to learn which (slower train) tickets are good on any train, and which trains are all-reserved and require seat reservations. Some discounted tickets are not changeable or refundable, so you must not miss such a departure. Our host's website (top left blue menu) is especially good on train travel in Europe. You have a lot to do in a week.

Three assumptions in my responses: (1) your trip begins in 4 days, (2) you are locked in to your Berlin and Munich dates, and (3) you already have flights in/out of Berlin.

I would dump the Rhine, not because it is not worth visiting but because you lose too much valuable vacation time on transportation. For 3-5 July, I would think about either a stop at a city along the Munich-Berlin train line (Nuremberg or Erfurt, as mentioned above, are excellent options) OR just return to Berlin and do more stuff there.

For travel between Berlin and Munich, I would take the train. It looks like price for air/train would be about the same with much less hassle factor on the train (and many more positive feelings about yourself for being environmentally sensitive by taking the train).

As for cards such as the Berlin Welcome Card, I have no recommendation. You just have to look at them to see if they save you money. Unfortunately, that takes requires time, reading German (for Berlin local transport costs/rules), and some higher-order calculus to figure that out. Or you can just go with your gut feeling after reading up on the cards.

Thank you all for your advice.

Kelly, My flights are already booked, unfortunately. While it can be changed, we might incur significant charges for changing the flight. I did give it a thought though. Also, there were other travel logistics to take care of.

Mark, Fair point on jetlag and travel times between destinations. I planned to to spend the major part of the day on 29th in Berlin before heading to Munich later int he afternoon. But I understand your comment that we should look to allocate more time to Berlin. I Suppose, what I missed in the forward journey, I will look to cover in the return journey to Berlin.

joe32F, I should have probably mentioned in the post - we have a 17 year old and a 7 year old.

Fred, I will look into the late night train option. Do trains keep reliable schedules? Regarding day 1, post landing, I did intend to cover at least one important point of interest. Lets see in what shape we get in there

Tim, I have the hotel reservations for the Berlin and Munich leg of the trip. I was unsure of my plan after Munich, as I was conflicted. Heart said to go to Rhine Valley and enjoy the old world charm and the natural beauty; but head raised too many questions about the logistics of getting back to Berlin in time for the return flight. If I were to do Rhine Valley, I planned to fly into Frankfurt, but the train distances, and lack of clarity on what could be reliably covered forced a rethink.

Based on all the above comments I sense that it will be better to look for other attractions between Munich and Berlin. I do need to spend more time studying the viable train routes between Berlin-Munich-Berlin. I have read few other posts regarding the trains and how things differ between weekday and weekend.

other quick questions:
1) Do seven year olds travel free?
2) Any suggestion where to pick the local SIM card for a phone connection - at the airport? or local supermrket? any particular carrier ? I learned these are the main mobile carrier Deutsche Telekeom or Vodafone or O2. Any major difference between one or o the other
3) Food: We are a vegetarian family. I have been forewarned by many of possible trouble finding simple meatless food. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks again for the help. Look forward to other thoughts
Best Regards

Hi,

Bravo for choosing Munich and Berlin, no problem visiting both. I agree with skipping the Middle Rhine area. With 10 days use them to see Munich and Berlin, say 7 nights in Berlin and 3 in Munich.

Which historical monuments are you most interested in tracking down in Berlin...lots of them depending on the historical area and depth of your interest? Which time period?

Plan and time it right, you do have time for a day trip outside of Berlin, especially if you're interested in Prussian-German history prior to Nazism.

Dave, Thanks for the suggestion. I am leaning towards what you suggested - pick another place enroute from Munich - Berlin. Had a good laugh on your comment about "higher Order calculus" . I felt the same in my previous trips to EU, trying to maximize the city pass.

Fred, We are generally interested in most periods.....Of course, the recent wars are big moments. Pre-war history of europe always fascinates. Recent unification and the new Germany will always remain a pivotal moment. To be honest, I have not read enough to have a strong preference. We have realized a good story teller in other historical trips have always made the connection to past better. I am open to suggestions.

Hi,

Historic Berlin is the eastern part of the city, ie from the Brandenburg Gate eastwards. The Reiterdenkmal (the horse statue of Frederick the Great surrounded by his generals is on Unter den Linden. On the Prussian period I would suggest seeing the Strasse des 17. Juni (named after the revolt there in 1953 against the Russians, prior to 1953, that boulevard was called Charlottenburg Chausee , named after the Prussian who started to beautify the city in 1701 when her husband Frederick I was given the title, yes, given, since he had to obtain permission, or at least, the tacit acquiescence of the other monarchs to be crowned King in Prussia, (König in Preußen) but not "von' (of) Prussia. Two sides of the boulevard has her statue.

There are statues to Prussian-German generals in Prussian service near Bebelplatz...Scharnhorst, Blücher, and Bülow. who played a role in defeating Napoleon after Prussia had declared war on France in 1813. When you see Bebenplatz, it was the site of Nazi Bücherverbrennung (Book burning) two months after Hitler had come to power.

To get an overview regardless of its partiality or bias, I suggest seeing German History Museum (DHM) on Unter den Linden.

When you see the columns on buildings, say Neue Wache on Unter den Linden, and also as you head east, those were deigned by KF Schinkel.

The Tourist Office provides information on the major historical sites but there are also more esoteric historical sights out in Spandau, Köpenick , etc. The TO is located just east of the column, on the western side, you see a sign with "Vormärz" on it.

That is referring to the days prior to March 1848, when the 1848 revolution coming from France had spread to Berlin and Vienna.

On the WW2 related sites in Berlin, I would suggest seeing the Resistance Museum on Stauffenberg Strasse, called "Gedenkstätte deutscher Widerstand." The museum emphasizes it was not only a military resistance. The museum does conduct tours, if any are in English , I don't know, I never asked, also never saw one in English.

Another museum is that in Berlin-Karlshorst where the museum focuses on the Nazi-Soviet War. I was there the last time in 2017, audio phones are available...any good...don't know, I never used one. I had seen this museum in 1999. Now the focus has changed somewhat. Take S-3 (Direction: Eckner) to Karlshorst, way out in the east.

Unlike Paris, Vienna, London, there is no museum in Berlin that has an extended treatment of Germany in WW1, except that displayed in the German History Museum...you'll notice the partiality easily enough.

@Fred: what are "esoteric historical sights" for you?

@OP

Q1, If you choose a day ticket of Berlin public transport the younger kid is included. For travel with Deutsche Bahn it travels also for free but the child's name must stand on the ticket of a parent.

Q2: Germany has many free wifi (WLAN) with Internet access. So, ask yourself if you really need a SIM card. DT and VF have better coverage and much higher connection quality and data transfer rates than O2. Besides their branded shops you can buy a prepaid sim card (!) at MediaMarkt, Saturn, Mobilcom-Debitel and also at drugstores. Important: activation of SIM is only possible with passport / ID.

Q3: Berlin is global veggie paradise, even vegan. Easy place finding with HappyCow.

@ MarkK....A few of these ."esoteric historical sights" in Berlin would be, for example: the Rathaus Köpenick, the British RAF Friedhof on Heerstrasse, the Freiheitsdenkmal in Viktoria Luise Park in Kreuzberg (I saw that only once, that was in 2007), .or,

the WW I Memorial plaque (Gedenktafel) in Rathaus Spandau, (this I have not seen yet), or outside of Berlin....the Preußen Museum in Wustrau/Brandenburg and the former Karl von Hardenberg Estate in Neuhardenberg.

Berlin is one of the top vegetarian-friendly cities in the world. See https://www.happycow.net/europe/germany/berlin/

ETA: just saw MarkK suggested Happy Cow too. Great minds think alike. :)

I sense that it will be better to look for other attractions between Munich and Berlin

In fact, Leipzig, Nuremburg, Weimar, Dresden, Erfurt, Dessau-Worlitz Gartenreich are superb destinations, and you may get a taste of the recent Reunification that you mentioned yourself. If you have time, a family boat ride on the Elbe from downtown Dresden is a nice afternoon. These destinations are also strong on art, literature, and architecture.

My take on answers to your questions:

1. For Berlin, you may consider a small group daily ticket, which allows up to 5 people to travel on a single ticket for 20 euro (for AB zone travel). It saves you 1 euro over 3 adult daily tickets (with the 7 yo riding for free on one of the tickets) for AB zone travel. The A and B zones are where most tourists stay unless going farther out to places like Potsdam.

2. No idea. :) I just use the $10/day plan on my AT&T phone that allows my normal plan to apply to international usage. I don't like hassle!

3. There are great vegetarian places in Berlin. One of my favorites is momos, which makes delicious organic vegetarian dumplings. I usually take a friend and go for the 24-piece Momos Experience, which includes all the dumpling types (half steamed and half pan fried) and 3 sauces. As we eat, we try to guess what we're about to eat while experimenting with the sauces.

I don't know how much you have planned at this point, but I will give you a few thoughts on activities in Berlin:

You are not going to have a whole lot of time in Berlin -- basically 2 partial days and 2 full days. You also are going to have a 7 yo, which will impact your choices and who will likely need some breaks. With that in mind, a few thoughts:

-Do a walking tour of the city center to get exposure to the vast history of Berlin. Rick Steves has a nice walking tour of the city center in his Germany and Berlin guides. You can also do the walk with a company like Insider Tour for an economical price (I would recommend avoiding the free walking tours). Interestingly, you write, "We have realized a good story teller in other historical trips have always made the connection to past better." I have no idea what his availability would be on this short of notice, but I like Robert Sommer as a private guide. He grew up in East Berlin the son of a fairly high-ranking East German bureaucrat. He was a 15-year-old who was starting to dabble a little in the DDR (East German) counterculture when the Berlin wall fell. He has a PhD in cultural studies, but not a PhD personality. He is very approachable and willing to answer questions during a tour about growing up in the DDR, making his first trip to West Berlin, etc (but you must ask!). As I recall, he charges 60-90 euro per hour, based on your ability to pay and your enjoyment of the tour. Three or four hours with him (perhaps with a short snack break at the mid-way point for the 7 yo) would be enlightening, if in your budget.

-The German History Museum (DHM) is excellent but has an overwhelming amount of information/artifacts. It's arranged on 2 floors: pre-WWI history on the upper floor and WWI & later on the ground floor. It can easily be a 2-day experience. You will have to push yourself (and skip vast sections) to get through it in an amount of time that won't drive a 7 yo nutty. I would not describe it as kid friendly.

-DDR activities: I would strongly recommend a trip to the Berlin Wall Memorial (Gedenkstätte Berliner Mauer), where you can see a section of the Berlin Wall as it originally stood. There is also an excellent documentation center at the site. It's worth watching the video of the checkpoints opening on Nov 9, 1989 in the documentation center. The DDR Museum near Museum Island shows what life was like during DDR times and includes an area set up to look like a typical DDR flat. Definitely a kid friendly museum (though there is an exhibit on FKK [nudist] life in the DDR with revealing videos [pun intended]).

-Fun stuff: The Rausch Schokoladenhaus in the city center is a wonderful chocolate store with numerous sculptures of Berlin landmarks (and an Airbus A-380!) made from chocolate. There is a cafe on the 2nd floor (US 3rd floor) that has wonderful hot chocolate and cakes/torts (but unimpressive ice cream creations). Walking the dome of the Reichstag is pretty cool. You need a reservation to avoid long lines. All the reservations for June are gone, but reservations for July are still available -- perhaps something to do on your last evening in Berlin before returning to the US? The department store KaDeWe has an international food floor; it's interesting to see the foods from around the world and (especially) what the USA foods are. Volkspark Friedrischshain is a great place for a walk and to watch Berliners be Berliners; it also has the Märchenbrunnen, a fairy tale fountain.

Thank you all for taking time to inform and educate me on the possibilities. I have taken note of various ideas, including travel destinations, points of interest, food choices, and telephone services.

I am quite excited and am waiting eagerly for the trip. I hope I can free my mind a bit to get ready for the vacation.

Thanks a bunch to all of you again.

Best Regards
-D

I would do a walking tour in both cities on your first days to get a good orientation to the city.

Vegetarian options are extremely easy to find in Germany as a rather large percentage of the population are either vegan or vegetarian.

I would have spent more time in Berlin than in Munich, as there is much more to see there. If you want quaint, head over to Regensburg while in Munich.

Trains for me are more comfortable and make more sense. Add in the time (and money) you spend getting to and from airports, security times, getting there 1.5 hours before a flight, the flight itself, and you spend the same amount of time as you would on a comfy train.

Berlin: take a couple days to go up the Elbe River. (get a Michelin Green Guide to Germany and see the itinerary of river cruises on the Elbe). I really liked Torgau with its castle and 1,500 well preserved Medieval buildings and no tourists. Like Berlin, most of these are not top sights, but they are a lot more worthwhile than Berlin, and it gives you a one up on other travelers-- few people do this, and more's the pity.

From Munich: the suggested Regensburg day trip is great idea, so is the Romantic Road (again, see the Michelin Green Guide).

Thanks Ms. Jo and KB1942.

We are already into our 3rd day in Berlin after a treacherous flight (only delayed by 5 hours, sigh!). I understand better now having got a glimpse of what the city has to offer. But we are so far happy to have visited the various attractions already, and for the most part a humbling experience of knowing the harsh realities of the world it was then and its evolution to its present day. I suppose even a week may not be enough for this city. One great find that we had was that on Thursdays, the Kreuzsberg territory (?) has a world food day. It was awesome to visit there, just to make things different at the end of day.

Thanks again for all your advice.