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figuring out german rail point-to-point ticket prices

I am trying to compare advance purchase rail fares versus at-station fares, and I am having difficulty.

For example, I will be traveling from Frankfurt airport to Bacharach. I see from Die Bahn that an Advance Purchase, Flexible fare of 18 Euro is available for certain train times, but I am unable to find out the price of other scheduled trains which are more convenient, time-wise.

  1. In general, how can I find the fares of trains that are not available for pre-purchase over the internet?
  2. Alternatively, is 18 Euro a cheap fare for Frankfurt Airport to Bacharach? (I am a budget traveler) I am guessing that other rates are cheaper, since this 18 Euro ticket is a Flexible Fare ticket, which I gather means I can use it on any train type listed for the purchased route, regardless of departure time. That sounds like a convenience that one would pay extra for.

Thank you in advance for any assistance. If anyone has tips about traveling in, staying in, and hiking (beginner level) in the Rhine-Mossel Region, please send them as well.

Posted by
21166 posts

DB is not allowed to show prices for transport in the local verkehrsverbund, don't ask me why. I guess because they are not allowed to sell them. In this case the local train tickets are sold by the Rhein-Main Verkerhsverbund (Frankfurt regional transit authority in other words). The regular ticket on a regional train is 11.95 EUR. The RMV will sell you the tickets, either out of a kiosk or a ticket window.
https://www.rmv.de/en/

The hike from Moselkern up to Burg Eltz is nice in dry weather, about an hour or so. There is also a very nice bike trail along the Mosel in a disused railroad bed.

The next town down river from Bacharach is Oberwesel and you cross into the Rhein-Mosel Verkehrsverbund, and they some very good day ticket prices. That covers you for unlimited travel on buses and regional trains as far north as just short of Bonn, and up the Mosel River as far as Bullay, and equivalent area on the other side of the Rhine.
http://www.vrminfo.de/en/timetable/

Posted by
7072 posts

"...tips about traveling in, staying in, and hiking..."

First of all, HERE is a map of that VRM zone (light green) that Sam mentions. You can see that Bacharach lies outside the zone. Sadly, the VRM website was recently redone and currently has next to nothing in English. The "Freizeit-Tickets" (green) box on THIS PRICE CHART shows 3 tickets - a Tageskarte (day pass for one,) a 3-Tageskarte (3-day pass for one,) and a Minigruppenkarte (day pass for 2-5 people.) To the far right in that same green box, under the "VRM" column, you can see prices for these day passes covering the entire VRM zone. The 3-day pass for the solo-traveler is a very good buy at €37.60 - and it is valid all day long, even on weekdays (many day passes prohibit travel before 9 am weekdays.) To visit Bernkastel and/or Trier, which lie beyond Bullay, note that the VRM passes are inadequate. You'll need the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket day pass instead (€24/day, after 9 on weekdays.)

Bacharach is a beautiful town. But using Bacharach as a base town for the 2 rivers has some definite drawbacks that Rick Steves doesn't deal with in his book...

  • The VRM pass doesn't work there... you could buy it somewhere within the VRM zone, but you'd need a supplemental ticket every time you travel north (and again when you return south to Bacharach.)

  • Because of Bacharach's location, most of your day trips to the other Rhine towns and the Mosel towns will be a bit longer than if you were staying nearer to Koblenz (like Boppard)...

  • Unlike Boppard and St. Goar, two alternative base towns, Bacharach has no ferry, so to cross the river (Marksburg Castle? Rüdesheim?) you need to catch a train to a town with ferry service first, then another train when you return...

  • River cruises are trickier from Bacharach because the town lies in the middle of the scenic cruise zone - to begin the "Loreley Cruise", you need a train to reach Bingen, then after the cruise, you need a second train to return to Bacharach. A base in St. Goar (or Boppard, with a slightly longer cruise) means that you can end your cruise and be "home." Of course your VRM ticket won't cover the train to Bingen - you'd pay €6.50 from St. Goar or €10.50 from Boppard for a normal ticket. (NOTE: you could stop over on this normal train ticket for a couple of hours to see Bacharach.)

Note that the VRM day passes included passage on the St. Goar ferry and the Boppard ferry. The St. Goar ferry is more convenient because the train station across the river is only a couple blocks from the dock. Also in St. Goar's favor: Rheinfels Castle is right there - you can stop in whenever, without train scheduling.

Boppard and St. Goar are both nice towns to stay in. St. Goar has the best scenery of any Rhine town, IMO (3 castles visible from the riverfront.) Boppard is livelier, with a really nice river promenade, and a cool chairlift ride. I'd probably pick one or the other. To visit Bernkastel and/or Trier, consider one of these AND a separate Mosel base town.

Here's an inexpensive St. Goar apartment I've used. Other St. Goar options. And Boppard options.
Hiking

Posted by
21166 posts

Interesting. The RMV ticket from Frankfurt airport is 11.95 EUR to Bacharach, and the DB ticket from Bacharach to Oberwesel is 2.60 EUR, so that is 14.55 EUR. However DB can sell tickets from Frankfurt airport to Oberwesel because it is outside the RMV, which 17.20 EUR. So another way to game the system, saving 2.25 EUR.

Posted by
19275 posts

Between St. Goar and the airport works the same way - less expensive with a Bahn ticket and the RMV ticket between the airport and Bacharach.

By the way, Bacharach is not in the RMV. It's in the Rhein-Nahe-Nahverkehrsverbund, but in a tariff zone shared with RNN, so RMV can sell tickets between stations in the RMV and Bacharach.

If you were going from the airport to Oberwesel, depending on the train(s) you were taking, you might want to buy the Bahn ticket from Bacharach to Oberwesel from the Bahn in advance so you wouldn't have to get off the train in Bacharach, buy the ticket to Oberwesel, and get on the next train to Oberwesel.

That 18,-€ "flexible" fare does not require advance purchase (although you could). That should be the price from a ticket counter or automat at the airport.

Unfortunately, when you put into the Bahn website two stations in the same VV (Verkehrsverbund), the Bahn only tells you that fares are not available. It would be nice if they told you where fares are available.

I found this map of Germany showing all of the VV. Unfortunately, the map doesn't show ciites or Land boundaries, which would be nice to figure what VV you are in. It also doesn't show you the URL for the VV.

This page shows a list of the VVs by Land with links to their websites. These VV websites will usually show a map giving the boundaries of the VV.

When you are in Germany, you can buy from most ticket counters a map of the German Rail system called Personenverkehr Deutschland. It has a detailed map of Germany with all of the rail lines shown. On the back side is a better map of the Verkehrsverbünde with a lot of cities and town shown.

Posted by
2480 posts

It also doesn't show you the URL for the VV.

A list of Verkehrsverbünde and URL's is here

Posted by
1528 posts

If the OP is not confused by now, I would be surprised. Researching local travel network fares is one of the few things that I find disadvantageous about riding trains in Germany.

Posted by
111 posts

Thank you all for these very helpful responses!

I agree with the last poster that this is the only frustrating part of German rail travel, and the otherwise convenient Die Bahn website.

To Russ, and others with Rhine-Mossel hiking experience:

  1. Can you point me to shorter (4 hr max), moderate level hikes along the Rhine or Mossel with (1) great views, (2) a fair amount of wooded portions, and (3) with a spot along, or at the end of, where one can get wine (ideally with outdoor seating and a great view)?

  2. Are trails in this region generally safe for solo women hikers?

  3. And back to the wine thing, any recs. for lovely outdoor wineries/ laid back taverns or eateries in general in this area (not necessarily near trails)? I have been to the restaurant in St. Goar just outside of Rheinfels castle with patio seating overlooking the Rhine and it was a wonderful way to enjoy the late afternoon sun. I am hoping to find others.

Posted by
7072 posts

1.) I am NOT a vastly-experienced hiker but have done a few hikes. My favorite began in St. Goar from the St. Goar train station (take trail at end of station through the railway underpass then straight uphill) on the old Rheinhöhenweg west bank trail (now Rheinburgenweg) between St. Goar and Oberwesel. It has what you're looking for. Figure around 3 hours.

http://www.romantic-germany.info/index.php?id=2942

O'wesel - St. Goar segment... I'd start in St. Goar: https://www.tourenplaner-rheinland-pfalz.de/en/tour/graded-long-distance-hiking-trail/rheinburgenweg-04.-etappe-oberwesel-st.-goar-sued-nord/1526949/

Stop in at the Günderodehaus for some wine or whatever shortly before your descent into Oberwesel. View from terrace.

I have hiked up to Gedeonseck lookout and restaurant from Boppard previously. I've also taken the chairlift up there. Once there you can hike around the Boppard Stadtwald (city forest) for some wooded scenery and some views. See green trails on this map. Gedeonseck serves traditional food, wine and beer in an outstanding setting.

2.) I believe so. Biggest concern is probably a self-inflicted injury of some sort.

3.) I'm a wine flunkee but enjoy a glass now and then. Boppard's Weinhaus Heilig Grab is not far from the station and looks pretty nice. I did a little wine-tasting in St. Goarshausen a few years ago in the "sehr gemütlich" Weinmuseum inside the historical town tower at the south end of town by the river.

Posted by
111 posts

Your recommendations sound perfect. So many thanks! That Boppard overlook image has me hooked.

Personally, would you choose the Rhine over the Mossel Valley? I definitely want to do the Burg Eltz hike/ visit, so am weighing spending 2 of my nights in Cochem if there is also an especially nice wooded hike in that area (in addition to the Burg Eltz one) versus sleeping in Bacharach/ St. Goar the whole time.

And do you have a recommended bike route along either or both of the rivers?

Posted by
7072 posts

"... would you choose the Rhine over the Mossel Valley?"

Don't do just one if you can find time for both. 1 or 2 nights in Cochem will be memorable.

The Mosel is vastly better for biking IMO. Lazy river bends, fewer segments that you share with car traffic, less traffic where you do share the road with traffic.

BTW, The spelling is either Mosel (German) or Moselle (English.)
The pronunciation is roughly "Mow-zull" in German, or if you know IPA, /ˈmoʊ zəl/

My main point of orientation for biking and hiking on the Mosel has been (and is mostly limited to) short journeys in the BULLAY area. Bullay's train station is just upstream from Cochem (10 minutes by train.) I used the ferry there to reach Alf, then hiked up to a lookout, the Marienburg, and to Arras Castle. From Bullay I biked along the river to Zell and a bit further to Pünderich.

Photo of Bullay (right) and Alf
Prinzenkopf lookout tower w/ area panorama and towns - in the photo, the Prinzenkopf is just behind Marienburg.
Burg Arras (hotel w/ small museum and refreshments)

Map of hiking trails for the area I walked. Once off the ferry in Alf, you walk up "Auf Tannerd" and you'll see signage that takes you either to the Prinzenkopf/Marienburg or to Burg Arrras.

Bullay and Alf are both sleepy, normal little towns with few tourists.

The Budinger Guest House in Bullay rents bikes. They have this email address at a separate webpage for the apartments they rent in Bullay: http://www.ferienhaus-budinger.de/

This page has addresses and contact info for bike rentals in Alf and in other Mosel towns as well.

Note that there ARE a number of mom/pop accommodations on both rivers that offer free use of bicycles.

It is possible to take your bike on the trains throughout the RMV zone (Oberwesel-Koblenz on the Rhine, Koblenz-Bullay on the Mosel) for free after 9 am weekdays and anytime on Sat or Sun if you wish (provided space is available.)

Posted by
111 posts

Ok, the VRM 3 Tageskarte is what I'd like.

Is it cheaper to buy this ahead of time, online, or can I conveniently buy them from machines once I arrive?

Furthermore, can I buy the card the day before I need it, and then validate it the day I begin travel, or does it's validity begin upon purchase?

Do rail ticket machines generally accept "American-style" chip credit cards (without PIN) without fuss?

Posted by
19275 posts

There is no price advantage to buying the ticket in advance or online. You can buy it right up until travel time for the same price (but you have to figure out the ticket machine).

I'm not sure about the VRM ticket, but most of these Tageskarten come with the date stamped on them and are only valid for that date. If so, you will have to specify the date when you purchase the ticket. If not, it will say "Hier entwerten" somewhere on the ticket, and you will have to cancel it before using. Those tickets can be bought ahead without regard to the date.

Posted by
1528 posts

"Do rail ticket machines generally accept "American-style" chip credit cards (without PIN) without fuss?"

During our visit last spring I was pleasantly surprised to find that the ticket machines that we used did accept the chip cards and did not ask for a pin. I will say that we only travelled in Bavaria and B-W. We also mainly travelled between moderate sized towns. It might be different in really small stations. I would carry enough cash for a ticket.

Posted by
19275 posts

I generally avoid using credit cards to make any purchases in Germany. Most of the few exceptions have been from ticket automats, once when the ticket purchase line was very long, once when the automat only accepted cards, not cash.

The German Rail website used to have a tutorial for using a ticket automat, and it included a part that showed how to insert the card (strip down and to the left). The tutorial has been removed. I don't know what that says for using cards, but I have to agree with Gary, plan on using cash.

Posted by
14980 posts

@ Gary....You should have no problems at all using the American credit card (chip and signature) on DB Automaten. On every trip I buy point to point DB tickets aside from using the rail Pass. I pay with a credit card, be it 11 Euro or 35 Euro, and I pay in cash too. It's a spur of the moment decision. On DB machines I've never encountered a situation where the US credit card is rejected, unlike in Holland and France. The DB machines are the most accommodating for Americans with their credit cards without a chip.