Fall trip Salzburg - Frankfurt. Please help to finalize details.

What about adding in Frankfurt, one of the most historic cities in Germany as well as one of the oldest? Not sure what your interests are exactly, old churches, history, Jewish culture, Romans, Holy Roman Empire, museums, botanical gardens?

For the Rhine, add in Eltville with Eberbach Monastery?

It will be slightly more efficient to from Salzburg to Nuremberg to Rothenburg to Ruedesheim. Rothenburg is a little closer to Frankfurt than Nuremberg. Assuming this is for 2 people:

One thing to think about is what type of train tickets you want to use, all regional trains, or with fast trains and buying nonrefundable tickets far in advance. Salzburg to Nuremberg can be done in 3 hours with fast trains and cost 60 EUR for 2, or 4 1/2 hours with regional trains and cost 32 EUR for 2. Rothenburg to Ruedesheim is 4 hours with fast trains, and 5 hours with regionals. Prices here are about equal, so it is a trade off of committing now to a specific train vs some flexibility with regional trains, tickets for which can be bought day of travel.

From Nuremberg you can use a VGN Tagesticket Plus for 20.30 EUR for 2 for a day trip to Bamberg and train to Rothenburg.

I have heard that Frankfurt wasn't really worth the visit. (sorry I see you are from there) I just thought it was to big of a City. I will look into adding that to the Rhine.

As for the train information. Thank you! That's what i was wondering about. I for sure can do Salzburg - Nuremburg. I couldn't really tell which way was better. There are 4 of us but that sounds good. I am less concerned about cost and more concerned with convenience. I also would probably feel better to have the tickets in advance. I will look at changing my days around.

Should 1 night in Rothenburg be sufficient?

"We could add a day somewhere and take one off Mainz. If we arrived there Thursday late afternoon is that to much time there?"

So one evening + 1 full day for Mainz... no, not too much at all as long as you are interested in what Mainz offers. I think most people would be. I'll post some pages below that you can leaf through.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g187393-Activities-Mainz_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

The tangle of pink streets that covers Mainz on this sightseeing map shows the places where cars are banned and pedestrians can wander at their leisure as well as some of the sights: http://ontheworldmap.com/germany/city/mainz/mainz-sightseeing-map.jpg

A solid guide for a walk around town:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g187393-c218446/Mainz:Germany:Walk.Mainz.In.One.Day.html

One of many well-regarded eateries:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187393-d783104-Reviews-Heiliggeist-Mainz_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

Mainz is a wine town but has a brewery too:
https://www.eisgrub.de/#Home

Rüdesheim is convenient for a visit to Marksburg Castle - a completely intact medieval castle with English tours at 1 and 4 pm. It's in the attractive old town of Braubach, which is just one direct train trip from Rüdesheim along the eastside river bank. Get a window seat. But first get a "Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket" at R'heim station for this outing and make any stops or additional side trips you like along the way (within the area of coverage of course.)

Area of coverage: http://www.bahnstatistik.de/Strecken/StrR-RP-Saar.pdf

Braubach's old town area is an atmospheric spot for a meal as well.

"I am less concerned about cost and more concerned with convenience. I also would probably feel better to have the tickets in advance. I will look at changing my days around."

Salzburg - Nuremberg and Rothenburg - Mainz are two longish trips that might be part of a German Rail pass purchase - one very convenient option you have if cost is not so important... There are zero restrictions on train travel with a GRP - no schedule to keep, no unavailable train types, no hours restrictions - as you'd have with day passes and saver fare tickets. And there's only ONE purchase to make with a GRP rather than separate purchases for each journey. A GRP can be had in advance for as few as 3 or 4 days - in the "twin" version the price per person is reduced.

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/passes/german-rail-pass.shtml

(The GRP does not cover inner-city transport on buses trams and subways like the day passes generally do.)

One night in Rothenburg should be sufficient if you arrive in the morning.

About regional tickets. The 4 of you can travel from Salzburg to Nuremberg with a single Bayern Ticket costing 46 EUR. Would suggest taking the 10:15 regional train to Munich, then a 58 minute wait, then a regional express to Nuremberg, arriving at 2:48 pm. With a Bayern Ticket, you must leave after 9 am on weekdays and use only regional trains. You can then ride any regional trains together for the rest of the day, and have free use of public transportation in Bavaria. The ticket costs 25 EUR for the 1st person, then 7 EUR for each additional person riding with with you, up to 5 maximum traveling together on one ticket. So you could take the 9:15 regional train to Munich, store luggage at the station, explore Munich, then take any regional train to Nuremberg later in the day. There are several that take only 1 hour and 43 minutes.

There is no point buying these in advance. The trains are unreserved. Since they originate in Salzburg and Munich, just arrive early so you can be the first to board the trains and get your pick of seats.

In Nuremberg, you can use the VGN Tagesticket Plus, but it is only valid for a maximum of 2 people aged 18 or older, so you would need one for each couple. Cost is 20.30 EUR per ticket. A ticket bought Saturday morning is good for Sunday as well. So you could use them for a day trip to Bamberg, and the train to Rothenburg on Sunday. Again, regional trains only. Weekends there is no start time limit.

To go from Rothenburg to Ruedesheim, you could use a Quer durch Lands ticket costing 68 EUR for the group. Like the Bayern Ticket, you must start after 9 am on weekdays, and use only regional trains. It will take 5 hours to get there. If you want to use a fast train, tickets should be bought well in advance and are nonrefundable. Right now, as low as 95.60 EUR for the group and prices will go up over time. Both ways take a regional train to Steinach, then a regional train to Wuerzburg, and a regional train from Frankfurt to Ruedesheim. so the only difference is the train from Wuerzburg to Frankfurt. The IC and ICE trains do it in 1 hour and 12 minutes, and the regional trains do it in 1 hour and 43 minutes. So the IC and ICE connections save you 1 hour. If you wanted seat reservations on the IC or ICE trains, you would need to buy them at 4.50 EUR per person.

Sam has generously explained the details of the day passes, the sort of thing most of us would probably use for solid savings. If/when you do the same, it's wise to have cash and coin on hand, as the ticket machines can be fussy about everything at times. For a small extra fee you can go to a ticket counter at the station and get personal assistance (and probably use a credit card) to acquire these tickets.

One comment: Where Sam mentions the VGN Tagesticket Plus for outings from Nuremberg, he implies that there's a weekday morning hours restriction...

"Again, regional trains only. Weekends there is no start time limit."

But actually the VGN pass is one of the few day passes where no such limit exists. Any hour is OK, on any day.

That sounds perfect regarding Mainz. I will stick with that plan. Then we can take the train directly to the airport on Saturday morning and hopefully that will be an easy thing to do.

I will read all of your links. Thank you for those.

Is it still possible to go to St Goar, Boppard and/or Bucharach from Rudeshiem? I thought we could take the river cruise and then train back. I will look into Eltville and Marksburg Castle and Braubach.

I will research all of this train information and try to get that sorted out next. Everyone agrees with Sam that it is easier to go from Salzburg to Nuremberg and then Rothenburg?

"Is it still possible to go to St Goar, Boppard and/or Bucharach from Rudeshiem? I thought we could take the river cruise and then train back."
Yes.

(Mon - arrive R'heim)

Tue: Cruise to Boppard (9:15 - 12:50, with a 1-hr. stopover from 10:15 - 11:15 to walk through Bacharach; tell boat personnel you're returning for the next boat north.) Then after Boppard train back to St. Goar. That's possible. After dinner there are still hourly trains to Rüdesheim from the station across the river in St. Goarshausen at :26 after the hour. So catch the hourly ferry crossing from the St. Goar dock at :50 after, and you will have time to walk (north) to the station in St. Goarshausen and catch your train. The St. Goar ferry runs late into the evening and so do the trains.

Wed: Marksburg Castle is doable in a single day in combination with sightseeing in Rüdesheim.

I would also do as Sam suggests - Salzburg - Nuremberg - Rothenburg. Otherwise you are backtracking and adding time to your ground travel.

Perfect! Thank you all so much. I will look into booking the trains.

Whoa... the train outings from R'heim and the train to Mainz are local/regional trains that you do not / should not / cannot book/reserve. Sam has advised you similarly for certain tickets as well.

You can of course check train schedules for your dates and times at the DB itinerary search page - the same one you use to book tickets for long-distance journeys using high-speed trains:

https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query.exe/en

The RMV, VRM and other local transit authorities handle ticket sales for the local/regional trains. You buy tickets there. If you can nail down the train trips / days / times you want, we can tell you what to buy. These transit authority sites have English pages but they are difficult to navigate.

Ok I won’t book. I thought I should book Salzburg to Nuremberg. I will do more research and then ask you.

Ok I won’t book. I thought I should book Salzburg to Nuremberg. I will
do more research and then ask you.

Booking a "saver fare" ticket which uses any of the high-speed, long-distance trains might save you a little travel time. The ICE trains between Munich and Nuremberg are very fast - only about 60-70 minutes for this part of the trip.

However, booking one of these comes at a price. It will likely be more expensive than the Bayern Ticket, but also, you will have to pay additionally for any of the transport options (subway, tram, bus) that you might like to use within Munich and Nuremberg (which are free with the Bayern Ticket.) Also, the RJ (from Salzburg) and ICE (from Munich) trains or any other high speed trains will be pre-scheduled at the time of purchase, and they will be unchangeable as well - no schedule flexibility as you'd have with the Bayern Ticket.

With the Bayern Ticket (and using the tips Sam provided) you will ride the regional trains - normally the "M" trains from Salzburg and the RE (regional express) RB or ALX trains from Munich. These are all commuter trains that basically don't take reservations. You just get on and find a seat. Just buy it at the station on the day of travel. The Bayern Ticket CAN be pre-purchased online, but why would someone do that, considering that pre-purchased Bayern tickets have no advantage - Bayern Tickets will always be available at the station anyway (cannot "sell out") - and pre-purchased Bayern tickets (like those bought on the spot) are non-refundable - and do not secure seats for you - and won't provide you a discount?

Most of the people I've met who have done both the Rhine & Mosel valleys prefer the Mosel which is best seen by car or boat or bus. The train deviates from the river too often.

I've been to Mainz 2-3 times which is 2-3 too many.

Take a look at fitting in Nordlingen, Wurzburg, and Regensburg.

Ok Russ That is good to know. As long as they can't sell out and aren't to difficult to navigate at the station we should be fine to do that. I get a bit confused where the trains are concerned,