Everett, Elizabeth, and Virginia's 2023 Europe adventure

I tend to think of my trips in # of nights as if you stay 3 days and you are traveling you probably only have 2 full days. Traveling to the next place and checking in and out of hotels takes up time. I would not count the day you arrive in AMS and would then try to stay 3 full days. There is so much to see in Amsterdam and you will probably have some jet lag. I would at least be sure I have accommodation reservations for the first few nights and the night before you leave. Once you have a final itinerary I'd make more reservations. How flexible are the 3 of you as sometimes not having a reservation for the night allows you to have the Europe adventure you seek. I think about a trip I took with my brother not knowing Octoberfest started in late September and arrived in Fussen surprised to find nothing was available. The tourist office recommended we just drive towards Munich and find a motel not too far away which didn't sound like much fun. However, my dear brother was a very flexible travel companion and we started out toward Munich. As we passed a bar/restaurant on the edge of Fussen, I noted a vacancy sign!. We stopped, went in, got their last room, had a wonderful dinner and woke up the next morning to a misty view of the castle. A great adventure and with a happy ending which is always nice.

1. If your only purpose for going to Frankfurt is to rent a car, I would skip Frankfurt and rather rent in Cologne. The most economical route would then be Amsterdam - Cologne - Middle Rhine Valley (Boppard, Bacharach etc) - Baden Baden etc.

2. For your tour, you would not need a car at all and could do everything by train. Compare prices of car rental (factoring in gas prices of >2.00€/l and parking costs) with either point to point saver fares or train passes.

3. them drive to Fussen or Boppard

Boppard? You surely don't want to go back all the way to Boppard. Got a place name mixed up?

4.

and Freiberg(2nights)to explore the black Forest

Freiburg is a bit out of the way for that. I'd look for a nice place right in the black forest, like Gengenbach, Alpirsbach or Wolfach. Hotels there provide a card for free public transport during your stay (google for "Konus Card" and download the flyer with a map and list of participating towns).

If you stay in Boppard, you will each get a VRM guest card which will allow you unlimited regional train and bus travel in the middle Rhine and Mosel valleys. now when I say middle Rhine, that only goes as far as Oberwesel, one stop short of Bacharach. But that is only a 2.80 EUR train fare.

In fact, the whole itinerary can be done without a car.

Fellow retired teacher here! I could not figure out why you were going in summer until I saw your daughter was still teaching........

You state your goals are economical, relaxing and fun. Good goals! I worry that the number of changes that you have will cause you to be a little bit less than relaxed. I think it is very reasonable that you could see quite a bit of the Netherlands and Germany in 4 weeks.

Can each of you list your top 5 things that you want to see and do on this trip? Often that is a great starting point for thinking about what really needs to be included. Also, plan on having a "day off", or at least a slower, easier day, about every 5 days. It will help you enjoy the other days more.

Once you have an itinerary roughed out, you could make reservations, although this may be a bit far in advance for most places. I would only make fully refundable reservations that can be cancelled up until very close to your trip. You will probably change your mind a few times in the upcoming year.

Trains in both the Netherlands and Germany are great. Where they don't go, there is usually a bus.

Hi Everett,

First thank you to you and your family for being teachers! As for economical travel in Europe you have to weigh train travel vs car rental and what you are looking to see and do during your travels. With more than 2 travelers, car rental may be more economical in Germany as you describe your planned path of travel. Others will be able to give you better advice on train travel in Germany. My trip to Germany was cancelled in 2020, but I was flying into Munich,using a tour to Dachau via train, train to Passion Play in Oberammergau, then private driver to Delle France (cheaper than rental car or train, train route was not direct).

For my planned trip to Portugal this summer, I booked most of my hotels/apartments one year out with free cancellation. If there is a specific hotel or apartment you want then check when they open the bookings or email them directly to ask. Some of the smaller bed and breakfasts may only start booking 6 months out. For example, the hotel I booked in Lisbon cost 50-75% less booked one year out than if I had booked it at 9 months, 6 months, 3 months out. This may have been due to Covid reopenings?

With 4 weeks, you need to include a laundry stop or 2 or book an apartment with laundry. Most apartments in Portugal only have a washing machine, not sure about Germany. An apartment would also allow for meal prep to save money on eating out.

How do you take road trips in the US? Do your road trips differ by purpose, ie sight seeing on route 66 vs driving to grand canyon to go camping. Think of your Europe trip in similar terms. On my upcoming trip we have 3 nights Lisbon, 5 nights Lagos,1 night Evora, 3 nights Porto, 3 nights Viseu, 4 nights Praia de Leira, 1 night Lisbon before fly home. As the trip gets closer, I wish I had booked 2 nights Evora, but I want my 9 nights at the beach and we have some family events to attend.

I recommend mapping out your wish list for sites you want to see and experiences you want to have. Set a budget that includes transportation (flights, train, rental car and gas, uber/taxi), insurance (car and medical/travel), accomodations, tours, monument entry fees, food (estimate), etc. Pencil in rest/relaxation and laundry. My husband gave me a 10,000 budget for 2-4 adults.

My budget as an example:
hotels/apartments for 4 adults for 21 nights 4,000 Euro
flights for 4 adults 3000 US
car 2000 Euro not including gas
tours for 4 adults 900 Euro
We will be over with food, gifts for family wedding and baptism, taxi/uber, cat sitter, transportation to airport in US.

Enjoy your planning!

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/san-diego-to-munich-just-getting-there-part-1 to 7

I just returned from some of the areas you are interested in. Hopefully the above Trip Report will have some helpful suggestions.

Have a wonderful trip.

Great advice. Still need great cheap places air b&b or hostels for 3 adults in these places as well as advice on sight seeing and budgeting. I'm thinking $15,000 us dollars as a bottom line. Am I even going to be close. I have no idea on transit or lodging costs.

I see your financial concerns - but you need to know that with massive inflation on this side of the pond it will be very hard to predict if you can make your budget.

For example, here in England - and I know you are planning for the Continent - we are seeing massive hikes in prices. I am sure they are to one degree or another mirrored across the Channel.

My weekly grocery bill has doubled. The price of gas (heating gas, natural gas) and electricity has tripled - yes, just in the last six months it has tripled. We are told that by the fall it will go up another 50 percent. Fuel for the car has gone up 50 percent. We were just told today by the BBC that the price of a chicken dinner is doubling. Inflation last month was 9 percent, it will be higher than that this month.

So I think it is only a matter of time, a very short time, before the tourist starts to feel this pain. I heard last week that the hotel I was at at Heathrow has nearly doubled its rates.

I hope you can make your trip work out for all of you. It sounds really fun and so good for all of you.

Thanks to all of you for being teachers.

Hi,

Going in the summer to Germany and to Europe as a whole has distinct advantages. True, there are admittedly disadvantages too, it is a trade-off. Basically, it depends if you see the summer advantages outweigh the negative aspects.

My post-retirement trips starting in 2009 are still being done in the summer, ie, going to France, England, and Germany, as were those prior to retirement.

The one exception: In 2019 I did one trip in October to Vienna and Germany, didn't like it time-wise. I doubt I would go again in October, not worth it.

I have no idea on transit or lodging costs.

For lodging, booking.com or hrs.de will deliver the best results. Some mom & pop places that are not listed there can be found on the web sites of local tourist infos (google for the name of the town + tourist info; e.g. Rothenburg: https://www.rothenburg-tourismus.de/en/plan-book/stay-overnight/accommodation-city-area/). Two decent budget hotels in the Middle Rhine Valley of which I have good records are the Hotel im Malerwinkel in Bacharach (double room incl. breakfast approx. €80) and the Bergschlösschen in Boppard ca. €120). You can find rooms for a similar price in Rothenburg. For Munich, I'd use the prices of the Motel One chain as a reference (approx. 90 / room + 13.50 pp for breakfast).

Regarding train transport, all your trips between Cologne and Rothenburg are
doable with either Quer-durchs-Land tickets (QDL, €56/3) or Länder tickets (1)
Cologne - Middle Rhine valley (Boppard / Oberwesel / Bacharach): QDL, (2) trips
in the Rhine and Mosel valley: Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (€ 37/3), (3) Middle Rhine
valley - Black Forest, e.g., Gengenbach (QDL), (4) Gengenbach-Füssen (QDL), (5)
Füssen - Salzburg (Bayern ticket, €42/3), (6) Salzburg-Munich (Bayern ticket),
(7) Munich- Rothenburg (Bayern ticket). There are no significant time savings on
any of these trips by using expensive long distance trains.

Please note: Gengenbach-Füssen is too long a trip for one day (6-7 hrs). I would break it at Lake Constance, maybe Meersburg or Lindau. There is enough to do there for a half day or two half days. Gengenbach-Lindau is about 4 hours, Lindau-Füssen ca. 3:00.

For the remainig trips, i.e. Amsterdam-Cologne and Rothenburg-Leipzig, once your travel dates are set, you could book (train specific) super saver fares at the DB web site (Amsterdam-Köln: ca €40 pp, Rothenburg-Leipzig ca. €52 pp).

Unfortunately, Europe and Germany in the summer is peak tourist season with prices to match, which is why I go off season. However, as far as hotels, there is a hotel chain called Motel One in Germany and Austria. Basic accommodations and no frills but clean and usually around 99 euros a night. You could also look into AirBnBs if staying longer in places.

Just remember 2 nights are really one day of sight seeing. For me I'd spend more nights in Munich and Salzburg and less in Zugspitze. Since you have 30 days I'd spend longer than 2 nights in each place-especially with all of the moving around you will be doing.

all of sla019's advice is good expect they may have missed that the trip will be next year, in 2023. The 9€ ticket, as far as I know, is a special for this year only. I am not sure that it will be in effect in June 2023.

I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong....

@Nigel
Thank you for the correction. I had read above

for the last week of June for 30 days

and overlooked that the year 2023 is mentioned in the headline. I have corrected my post accordingly.

The 9€ ticket, which the Swiss paper Neue Zürcher Zeitung rightly calls a "crackpot idea", will certainly not see a second edition.

Should we do less places with longer stays and how soon should we start reserving lodging accommodations. Where can we stay economically in these areas? Should we do it all by train or rent a car.?How can we do this trip economically, relaxing, and fun?

That's a nice amount of time.

For a relaxing time and for more economical stays: Yes, STAY LONGER IN FEWER PLACES. Also, stay in FERIENWOHNUNGEN, where normally discounts apply for 4+ nights (or penalties like "cleaning fees" apply to shorter stays and where you'll be able to prepare your own light meals in a kitchen or mini-kitchen - and avoid restaurant-dependency.

Is it relaxing to be in the most touristy of touristy destinations with as many tourists as possible? Some of your destinations will require that. I would really do some more research BEYOND the Rick Steves guidebook, which tends to settle for bus-tour destinations when it comes to Germany.

Have you thought about visiting the Technik-Museum in Speyer? STEM folks tend to love the place. I did too despite being a retiree from the Humanities department. Speyer has more to commend it as well, btw.

Looks like a nice plan, and my suggestion would to travel mostly by train. Even it the €9-ticket is not an option next year, the QDL and Ländertickets are pretty good value.

For example, here in England - and I know you are planning for the
Continent - we are seeing massive hikes in prices. I am sure they are
to one degree or another mirrored across the Channel.

It's not as bad in the rest of Europe.