Driving or taking the train (from Switzerland to Germany and Austria)

"One week" is not nearly enough for everything, no matter how you travel, and vague as well. Maybe you mean 7 days total, or 7 on the ground or 8 days including flights, or??

@Russ

Thanks for the reply, it is quite rushed, hence I was wondering if there's a better plan to these.....

We have 15 days total, landing in Zurich on Sat night - Day 0, so 14 days in actual. Our flight departs on the following Saturday evening (from Frankfurt).

The Switzerland leg of the trip has been somewhat finalised, so we leave Switzerland on Day 7 from Lucerne. Which leaves Day 7-13 for Germany and Austria (Day 14 would be the day we flight back)

I do know that it is a lot to visit in the 1 week we have left, to cover 2 countries...

With this plan and your short time there's no chance of "covering" Germany, much less Austria. The most sensible change you could make to enhance the efficiency and economy of your trip, given the airports you have set in concrete, is to reduce the amount of time you are planning to travel between destinations - and to keep your travel mostly between your airports. So... what is there in Germany between ZRH and FRA that might be similar to the destinations you had in mind?

Salzburg is a handsome historic city. But so are these places...

Tübingen
Esslingen
Freiburg
Metzingen is not far from Esslingen and Tübingen. Also nearby is Sigmaringen - a recent stop for me in this area.

Black forest towns like these aren't unlike Rothenburg:
Gengenbach
Schiltach

Stuttgart, like Munich, is popular for visits to its automobile museums.

And further north toward Frankfurt are places like...

Heidelberg
Guttenberg Castle
Michelstadt

There are many other good options for seeing Germany in this area as well. But you have only a week.

Reducing your ground travel will also permit you to use fewer base towns. With 9 people to house and the difficulties involved with that selection, I would attempt to find two locations at most. Then do day trips from these places.

While I'm fully aware that Rick Steves' advice for seeing Germany is focused on Bavaria to the near exclusion of the rest of the country, and that this probably was NOT the advice you had hoped to receive, I am certain that a very nice visit to this part of Germany can be quite rewarding. AND... if your in-laws or others sense that you are swindling them out of seeing two countries instead of just one, it is very easy to include a short day trip from Freiburg or Gengenbach into the French Alsace, where places like Colmar, Eguisheim, and Strasbourg have much to offer.

Hallstatt, Metzingen, Munich, and Rothenburg would be on the list of places my in-laws would want to go to, hence it would be best to keep them

Since it sounds like the in-laws might be a major force here, I took a quick look at your options, leaving out Metzingen, the outlier, and including some of your stated goals as well, to see more precisely what sort of ground-time you would be investing to go that far afield. I've also omitted Mittenwald and Nuremberg. You'd be starting from Luzern, not Zurich... Estimates per schedules at DB...

Day 7 Luzern > Salzburg 6.5 hours (scenic train ride, see the Seat 61 site for description)
Day 8 in Salzburg
Day 9 Day trip to Hallstatt by rental car, 2.5 hours rt + car pick up and drop off... or 4 hrs. rt by train
Day 10... to Germany, finally! Salzburg > Neuschwanstein 5 hours
Day 11 Neuschwanstein > Munich 2.5 hours
Day 12 in Munich
Day 13: Munich > Rothenburg > FRA airport 6-6.5 hours.

Total ground travel time = 23-25 hours

Seems to me that Munich gets somewhat shortchanged with this plan - and Germany more generally does too - but hopefully you have modest interests in Munich. Most of the Rothenburg fans here would also decry the daytime stopover I suggested, saying you must sleep there and must take the "Nightwatchman" tour (which actually might be your only personal contact with a real German person on this whole trip, actually, since this plan would leave you with so very little time in Germany.) So I guess if you agree with those people, you'd need to steal a night from somewhere else. I would not know where. The best move might be to cancel Neuschwanstein and Hallstatt on the basis that the Swiss Alps that you've already seen are so much more impressive than the German ones (and that N'stein is a waste of time, IMO) - and to instead visit some nice German destinations. Nuremberg and Bamberg, near Rothenburg, spring immediately to mind.

Anyway, I still prefer my previous suggestion, which shouldn't require more than around 12 hours of ground travel... Here are the basic legs with approximate train travel times for the Luzern > FRA airport itinerary:

Luzern > Freiburg 2 hours
Freiburg > Stuttgart 2 hours
Stuttgart > Heidelberg 1 hour
Heidelberg > Frankfurt Airport 1.5 hours
(Other misc. hours for side trips to Esslingen, etc: ?? 5 hours?? just depends...)

welcome to the Forums

A couple of practical considerations...

Are you travelling long haul to the holiday, in which case you might consider the impact that jetlag might have? Or only a short hop from the UK?

As you're flying, what provision have you made for the carseat issue with the kiddoes? Are you aware of the International Driving Permit for each driver, or do you all have UK driving licence?

With two vehicles, how will you stay in touch, especially if you get separated? Do you know about the no touching phones while driving laws where you will be?

I hope that all in the group will be happy with the itinerary - I think you are courageous tackling such a heavy driving trip.

Have you considered trains? Or a driver and a minibus?

OP, I think you have received some great advice here.

I love Salzburg and am no stranger to aggressive itineraries, but I would not recommend this route even to two experienced adult travelers with similar interests and energy levels. With the complexities that come with a multi-generational group of 9 I fear it is a recipe for a tough week.

As Russ thoughtfully points out, this is 24 hours of travel time not to mention reservation counter time, bathroom/rest stops, hotel check ins, etc. A lot of your precious vacation will be consumed by logistics even if everything goes flawlessly.

The region between your two airports has a lot to offer. Castles, cathedrals, quaint villages, vineyards, unique cuisine, nature. You can easily occupy 7 days here. I will add Speyer and possibly Mainz/a bit of the middle Rhine to the list.

Alternatively, you can aggressively prune the side trips. Eliminating Hallstatt and Neuschwanstein will save a lot of time. Salzburg, Munich, then work your way back to Frankfurt.

Your "Germany" list could be doable in a week, with the exception of Metzingen which is clear across the country from the route between Munich and Nuremberg. It's, at least, 3 hours drive to and from, in June more like 4 hours.

What I'd aim at would be train to Munich (plan 4 hours +). Then take a tour to Neuschwanstein, which will take a day. Than take the train to Salzburg (2 hrs one way). Then train to Nuremberg and plan on 2 nights there. From there you can go to Rothenberg. And then to Frankfurt in the morning. That's a week, and leaves you no time to explore Munich other than the day you arrive.

The outlets at Metzingen are not worth a 3 hour drive, or the loss of a day of vacation. And as for Hallstatt, you could stay two nights in Salzburg, but you'd have to cut something else. Again, I doubt it's worthwhile.

Thanks Russ, Nigel, Patrick and KGC for the insights, suggestions and replies!

Have been trying to look at alternatives in terms of schedule (if certain side trips could be skipped). But of course, I'll need to get everyone to agree, since removing some places might upset certain people. But I'll take into account the different alternative cities provided!

It seems like driving doesn't seem to be as well suggested compared to driving? I was worried about the transfer time and logistics for trains (I have taken the train from Berlin to Munich in 2022, but that was solo, so it'll be different compared to being with a big group + a lot of luggage)

The problem with driving, for a group your size, is that you'd need 2 large SUVs, or station wagons (which are much more common) and those are not a normal rental because they are difficult to maneuver in tight spaces, or find parking for, and gas is running about $8/gal. Plus driving in Germany is very different than USA.

Trains will be much easier to use by almost any measure.

Hi KGC, the fuel isn't as or about as expensive as compared to what we're currently paying in Singapore (at S$2.90/L or about 2EUR/L), so it wouldn't really be a factor. However, what you said about the parking might be the struggle; unless we're staying in the city with (probably paid) parking at our accoms.

But once again, the thing about taking the train would be the timings, but it shouldn't be an issue if we can plan it properly!

Hi all,

Just an update, the itinerary has been finalised:

• Zurich> Munich>Hallstatt: Train to Munich, pick the car from munich station, drive to hallstatt (2 nights)
• Hallstatt>Munich: drive to accom (3 nights, about 2 full days and 2 half days)
• We will check out of munich on the day we depart, taking the train to Frankfurt

Thanks so much for your input on how unrealistic the original schedule was, which helped to convince the relatives a little :)

With regard to the driving to Hallstatt, its because my partner wishes to drive at least once on the trip, hence we decided that to be the leg to drive

You got incredibly fine advice here.

I just want to make sure you are prepared for your role as a Professional Tour Guide. What happens if Uncle Ernie is getting his pretzel steamed at the food stand when the train whistle blows for departure? This sometimes described here as "herding cats." What happens if you don't all fit in the mountain gondola-load? When two people want to go to Dachau?

I have found European municipal garages to have much narrower ramps and smaller stalls than in the US. I did not drive in Singapore. But even in wealthy Antwerp, we had to empty the car before backing into a stall, because we virtually had to climb out the driver's window (as parking valets do in New York City 1965 garages.)