Dortmund and Amsterdam and Bruges?

Hi Sarah!
Are you traveling by car or by train?
To your specific questions:
1. Amsterdam is certainly big, but how much you feel that hangs a bit on how big European cities in general feel to you.
2. Why do you want to go to Bruges? It is a bit in the wrong direction, so maybe there is a nice replacement that is more convenient.
3. Had I to make a suggestion now, reading your preferences: Do you know about German East (and possibly Dutch) Frisia (https://www.ostfriesland.travel/ )? It is a smaller detour than Bruges, full of small towns with reed covered houses and the Wadden Sea at hand, which your girls might like (as long as dressed in waterproof winter gear)
4. Never been to Dortmund at this time, but it is conveniently located to make trips.
5. Castles are easy to reach from Dortmund and on the way, but I don’t know any that has a hotel tbh

Thursday morning arrival Amsterdam
Monday travel to Dortmund
Thursday travel to Amsterdam
Friday or Saturday fly home to Montana

Is that right?

Amsterdam with day train trips is good for over a week for a first visit. Dortmund will take most of a day to get to from Bruges. Have you called up these journeys on Google Maps for some approximate miles and timings? I just don't see that you can do all this in 8 days.

I suggest that you research the nice cities that are actually near the places you have to be. For example, Münster is not "like" Bruges, but it is historic, and has lots of red brick like Bruges. It is also known for large amounts of outdoor sculpture, which kids would enjoy. Same for Kassel, which is known for high-end contemporary and modern art. It also has a lovely chateau-museum (older art) with nice grounds and a hotel. Cologne and Düsseldorf are wonderful visits, which include the most popular tourist sight in Germany. They also have access to Monschau, which would be a magical visit for the kids.

Are there any other cities/ towns that you would recommend for
Netherlands, Belgium or northwestern Germany?... I am open to staying
one night somewhere in between dortmund and Amsterdam if its special.
It would be neat to stay in a picturesque village or even a castle.

Amsterdam: One of the counterculture capitals of the world... it is not a village and not family-oriented, not a place I would take my young children.

There ARE some very nice old-world towns in the Netherlands along the Ijssel River that are situated almost perfectly in between Dortmund and Amsterdam.

Like you, we used Amsterdam/Schiphol as a gateway to Germany, but we also wanted a little time in the Netherlands. We'd already seen A'dam and many of the other nearby destinations you can easily find in the guidebooks... From Schiphol Airport we had a short and simple train to the town of Bussum (Bastion Hotel) from which we visited the fortress-town of Naarden.

https://velvetescape.com/plane-views-naarden-vesting/

Next: train ride to the towns of Deventer and Zutphen

https://www.yourdutchguide.com/cities/deventer/

https://amsterdamian.com/see/photos/visit-a-fairy-tale-town-zutphen/

Zutphen was especially picturesque and charming. From there we continued by train on into Germany.

With your preferences for quieter, smaller places, I think these destinations might suit you well. We did them all by train - no idea what driving/parking is like in the event you will be using a car.

A friendly warning that when we parked for the beautiful, if small historic center of Deventer, it turned out that our (1/4 mile??) walk turned out to take us us right past Deventer's vest-pocket Red Light zone, which I'm sure you don't want to have to explain to your children.

I believe we will be traveling by train. 3 hours south to Bruges by train doesn't feel too long for me but I'm open to something closer for sure!

I wrote about Bruges to Dortmund, which is five hours and two changes, including one in Cologne (which is noted for being a city walkable from the HBF ... But Cologne is actually good for at least two days.). Counting checking in and out of hotels, and bus/tram to or from each train station, I think that's fairly, "most of a day." I was just trying to make the point that your desired destinations are not very close to each other.

The day-trips from Amsterdam probably average 50 minutes each way, as do the recommended daytrips from Dortmund.

Perhaps it's relevant to ask if this is your first trip to Europe? I partly ask because most of the beautiful medieval centers in Belgium and Germany are surrounded by unattractive post-war sprawl. I would also say that about Deventer. The old town, quite small, is magnificent. The rest is modern. The "towns" I've been to in Belgium tend to be speculative masonry developments for prosperous modern business people and their families, not wooden houses from before WW I. It's true that the Bruges old town is huge, but it's also surrounded by much bigger urban sprawl.

Edit: You are entitled to plan your own travel, and go where you want. But I believe that spending 1.5 days seeing Amsterdam for the first time is a poor use of time and money. (I've been to Amsterdam five times, total at least 3 weeks.) I don't think daily room changes and train time are the best introduction to Europe for two very young children.

I appreciate the advice. We went to Italy and Switzerland in January and spent a good deal on the train but it was incredibly scenic and the train ride was the reason for the trip. The travel days didn’t feel long because it was such a pleasure to travel on the Bernina express. But I could be planning my travel days with that in mind and perhaps I’m not being realistic with what’s doable in the amount of time I have. Given the choice between Amsterdam and Brugge, I think I would choose Brugge but I know that’s not the convenient location. I’ll have to put some serious thought into that.

It’s interesting what you said about the post war cities around the picturesque towns. That’s a good consideration. I really don’t know what to expect as we hardly spent any time in Italy and everything in Switzerland was scenic and lovely.

I certainly agree that Bruges is a must for you. But be prepared for serious crowding from 10AM to 5PM at least. It's not exactly "undiscovered." Maybe search this newsboard (blue box top left) for child attractions (besides Chocolate) in Bruges. Amsterdam is also crowded, but it has a lot more space. Don't overlook Advance Purchase musts, like Anne Frank House or Carrie Ten Boom.

It's not fair for me to write an itinerary for you, but think about this idea: Fly into Brussels and out of Amsterdam. ("Multi-City" on the airline website.) There’s a tiny number of direct trains to Bruges from BRU. Otherwise, just like Amsterdam you take the frequent airport train to the main train station and take any one of five (!) hourly trains to Bruges and other cities along the way. You could visit Gent (by train) on the second day if you had enough Bruges the first day.

Note that these Belgian "commuter" trains, which you’ll take even if you start out with a premium train from Amsterdam, are unreserved, often crowded, and don’t often have Long Distance luggage racks. After two nights in Bruges take the train to Cologne where you’ll stay two nights see Cologne and almost adjacent Düsseldorf and continue on Monday morning to Dortmund. Go back to Amsterdam and spend at least two nights there before you go home. You already have a list of possible day trips from the business city.

This newsboard is also good for preliminary research on Christmas Markets, which isn't a priority for me.

I don't know if the chairlift in Cologne runs in the winter. But the kids will enjoy the Decorative Arts museum, the Ethnographic museum, and its adjacent Medieval Art museum. I hate Locks of Love, but one bridge in Cologne has them. I think Cologne has a chocolate museum, but I haven't been there in two visits. It may turn out that the best route to Monschau is a bus from Düsseldorf; I had a car the day we went. While in Germany, watch for trucks or stands with "Oma's [grandma's] Quarkbollen", which are even better than state fair fried dough. However, instead of Dusseldorf you could go to Wuppertal and take the kids on the Schwebebahn.

This is all incredible advice! I was just suggesting to my husband to look into flying into Brussels. Thank you so much. It sounds like cologne is a place worth checking out. Monschau is exactly the picturesque Germany I was hoping for. I am a bit worried about Brugge being crowded but I’m hoping being there in the winter will help with crowds a bit. Thank you for your help. I will lock in flights soon and then get to the fun part of planning.

Monschau is exactly the picturesque Germany I was hoping for.

Whoa... Monschau is very pretty, but I encourage you to have a look at the promised access to Monschau on public transportation from Cologne and Düsseldorf!! It is not simple - it takes 2+ hours each way and involves at least one train + 2 bus trips OR train + bus + Rufbus (which I won't get into.) Don't take my word for it, just use the DB site to figure out how you will get there.

That's not to say that you can't visit some OTHER picturesque small towns in Germany which ARE easily accessible by public transport.

Let's say you will be following Tim's suggestion below...

After two nights in Bruges take the train to Cologne where you’ll stay
two nights see Cologne and almost adjacent Düsseldorf and continue on
Monday morning to Dortmund

Bruges > Cologne = 3 hours. Example: 8:11 - 11:16.

You have things you want to see/do in Cologne? My suggestion is to do them immediately after arrival. See the Cathedral, see a museum, have a meal, take a walk. Just store your bags at the station and spend 4-5 hours in town. Then collect your bags and take one more train ride... to KOBLENZ for a stay of 2 nights.

Cologne > Koblenz = 1.5 hrs. Example: Direct train, 16:56 - 18:27.

Koblenz is the gateway town to the Upper Middle Rhine Valley's historic wine towns - see linked map with towns, railways, and ferry crossings - and a train hub that puts you only minutes away from the following old-world towns by direct train.

So after breakfast in Koblenz, take a train outing...

Braubach is a great town packed with old-world buildings not unlike those of Monschau and it's home to Marksburg Castle:

https://fotos.schloemp.eu/wp-content/gallery/braubach/002Braubach-Bauernschaenke-Eck-Fritz.JPG

https://www.museumsportal-rlp.de/fileadmin/_processed_/c/4/csm_2358_3967796bf0.jpg
https://www.marksburg.de/en/circuit/#/

https://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?thread/7322-braubach-am-rhein-und-marksburg-galerie/ (it's in German but the photos tell the story... scroll through 3 pages of them.)

Koblenz > Braubach = 15 minutes. Example: Direct train, 8:52 - 9:05

Then another train ride... Braubach > Rüdesheim = 47 minutes. Example: Direct train, 13:05 - 13:52
This train trip takes you on Germany's most scenic train route past dozens of old-world towns, medieval castles and castle ruins on the cliffsides of each riverbank.

https://www.ruedesheim.de/en/old-town-and-drosselgasse

The old-world wine town R'heim has a Christmas market and lots of wining/dining options. Return to Koblenz on the same train route at your leisure after dinner there.

Koblenz itself has only a small old-town zone, but it does have its own Christmas market as well as a "Christmas Garden" if you are interested:

https://www.koblenzer-weihnachtsmarkt.de/en
https://www.christmas-garden.de/en/koblenz/

Well, sorry, I didn't know it was that hard to get to Monschau. It was almost as busy as Bruges when I was there in warm weather! Perhaps they were group-arranged bus trips I saw in the parking lot.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187371-i534-k14963751-Getting_to_Monschau_using_public_transport-Cologne_North_Rhine_Westphalia.html

If I were going as far as the Scenic Middle Rhine (which I didn't mention because it's December, and boat rides are infrequent or absent [and cold]), you could just fly into huge Frankfurt airport and go one way north through Russ's array of attractive places, and end up in Dortmund. Frankfurt would provide immediate access to several nearby towns of the Fachwerkstrasse, which are not as nice as Monschau, but certainly very attractive (and less touristy, with real local residents.)

It's unclear to me whether Sarah Marie is prepared to travel Rick Steves style, with three to five stops a day and a locker in each town for all their worldly possessions!

I wouldn't recommend 3-5 stops per day or lockers everywhere either. The day trip from Koblenz was intended to be luggage-free, with just the two Rhine towns as sightseeing destinations (Braubach + Rüdesheim, which share a single train line with Koblenz.) Keep it simple, for sure.

As for Cologne as a sightseeing stopover between Bruges and Koblenz... Cologne Hbf station is super-convenient for this. Cathedral right next door, other options and eateries within easy walking distance AND inside the train station:

https://www.seat61.com/stations/cologne-hauptbahnhof.htm
https://www.bahnhof.de/koeln-hbf/beste-restaurants-koeln-hbf

River cruising: not something anyone really wants to do in winter. But the old-world towns and buildings stay there year-round.

However, if someone wanted to get creative or do more with their own travel plan for visiting old-world towns on the bridgeless Rhine Gorge, the ferry crossings are there to help, carrying cars and passengers year-round between east and west banks. A 5-10-minute rivercrossing is bearable in typical late-November weather.

Ferry crossing for St Goar > St Goarshausen: https://www.frs-rheinfaehren.de/en/faehre-loreley

Bacharach, 10 train min. from St Goar:
https://www.mittelrheinentdecken.de/en/villages-towns-and-cities/bacharach/

Boppard, 10 train min. from St Goar, 15 train min. from Koblenz:
https://www.boppard-tourismus.de/media/was-ist-wo-broschu__re_en_190219.pdf

And yes, this area could tie in with FRA airport quite easily.

You guys are just amazing. My family and I have different perspectives on travel. I am a see as much as I can and hit the ground running kind of traveler. My family likes to take things slower and settle into a place. It’s always a fun challenge to find something that suits us all.