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Do a lot of Jews still have a problem with Germany

My mom and my aunt, her sister, have both never taken a plane flight. My mom is horrified every time I tell her I am taking a trip. She insisted that I had to cancel my trip to Spain before that trip in March 2022. My aunt, her sister has similar attitudes. My mom claimed that she would not be comfortable in a strange city alone. My solo trip to Germany starts less than 2 weeks from now. This trip is worse that past trips. My mom whined that she wouldn’t feel comfortable going to Germany. She read too many historical novels about WWII and/or the nazi genocide. My aunt claimed that until she was 12, her mom had to stay in the bathroom with her because she thought gas would come out of the shower. This trip has seems to trigger emotional baggage in my mom that is beyond her normal reactions when I take a trip. It seems that when she hears “Germany” in her mind she adds or thinks something like, nazi Germany, nazi genocide/Holocaust, bad place, and so on. She won’t buy German products except that when I was 10 she didn’t notice or care that the clarinet she bought me was made in West Germany. I am one of those secular Jews, Jewish according to heritage and the anti-semite definition only; I don’t observe any part of the religion; I don’t or dress in distinguishing clothing. I am actually over 40 now, I work at a normal job and live on my own, the 3 professionals I saw as an adult insisted that I am normal functioning. I have a maladaptive syndrome of feeling like I am doing something terribly wrong when I plan any trip. I don’t want to complain about my mom. I just want to better manage my desire to travel versus her reactions versus my feeling that I am doing something horribly wrong when I plan a trip.

I already know the answers to these questions. I know perfectly well that they are non-sensical or ridiculous but I need the exercise of asking them and seeing if I get straight answers anyway:

Do the following 2 sentences have the same meaning: “Recently (in 2024, traveling to) Germany is as safe as the rest of Central/west/southern/northern Europe” ... “nazi Germany was a good place / the nazi genocide was good”??

I am having trouble finding evidence of how many people have my mom’s attitudes.

No I don’t think Germany is the most special country in the world but the current country was started in 1949 – part of the land may be the same as nazi Germany but the current country is not a continuation of nazi Germany, the current country is a different country, in 2024 the vast majority of people alive in Germany in 1945, are not alive now, hopefully most of them won’t try hurting Jews. I know perfectly well that nothing is able to be good or ok about the nazi Genocide.

Is me communicating the above paragraph the proof that I am tone deaf, don’t care how my mom-feels, and/or that I think the nazi genocide/nazi Germany was good or ok??

(In 2024) if you travel to Germany and/or buy a German product (the only German product I have at the moment is a Lamy pen; I haven’t used Faber-Castell products recently; I don’t and have not owned a German brand car or a Bosch appliance), would that signal that you are tone deaf, don’t care how some Jews feel, and/or that you think nazi Germany was good or ok??

Am I more likely to get assaulted or mugged in south-east Michigan or where tourists would go in cities in Germany?

I can delete this thread if you can't tolerate it.

Posted by
1590 posts

Mike, I am sorry that your mom is having so much difficulty in accepting your plans to visit Germany. And visiting Germany definitely does not mean you condone nazis or believe that genocide is good. It is a total non sequitur. I hope you can visit and enjoy your trip without feeling guilty or that you are somehow betraying your mom. Because you aren't. You are living your life.

Posted by
8886 posts

Hi, Mike! It is nice to hear from you on the forum again. I have traveled to Germany several times and never felt any danger. My great grandmother was killed during the blitz in London. My great uncle killed when his ship went down in World War I after being sunk by the German Navy. Do I harbor any hard feelings toward the German people? Absolutely not.

I know that your family and the opinion of your family are very important to you and I imagine that you have had an extra full serving of their worries given to you recently. No one can, or should, tell people how to feel about experiences in their past or their families past. However, you can choose your own response. It doesn't have to be the same as your parents. You can venture out and decide for yourself.

Go ahead, travel to Germany and make up your own mind. You will find people who love their families, love their country, and are friendly to visitors. In other words, just regular people.

Ignore any harsh words on this forum. People don't know you or what your life is like. They have no right to judge.

Posted by
437 posts

Doesn’t Germany also have laws against Nazi memorabilia and salutes? I’m at work and can’t look this up now but I remember stories of tourist getting in trouble throwing nazi salutes or behaving inappropriately at holocaust memorial sites.

Pretty sure they also have jewish communities there. If German Jews are ok with being there and buying German, then maybe it’s ok for you to visit? See some of the memorials and current synagogues and tell your mom about them.

Posted by
1263 posts

An interesting (to me at least) cultural aside is the OP's remarks about using German products.

I'd never considered it before moving to London, but I noticed straight away (being a bit of a car guy) that the Hasidic Jewish community all seemed to drive Volvo station wagons. It didn't click to me until someone pointed it out that they won't drive German cars. Volvos are the next best thing in terms of a quality European brand and they make 7-seaters.

These days, it's the Toyota Previa minivan that's standard. Back in the day, there was one-make Volvo car lots in Stamford Hill. Now the community is served by dealers exclusively selling Toyota Previas.

Please excuse this tangent about my experiences. My only time in Germany was in Berlin to party 25 years ago so I'm not particularly relevant. I don't know if it makes me sound like a philistine, but I wouldn't be interested in anything too closely tied to the history of the third reich too closely as a tourist. I am of the attitude that "meh they were c-words. That artifact isn't so great." People that are a bit too interested in nazis are weird imho.

Posted by
16299 posts

A few things to tell your mom:

1) When young Israelis finish their military service, it is customary to travel somehwere to let off steam. It has to be a place that is not expensive and they feel welcome. For a long time it was Bangkok. Now, it's Berlin.

2) Nazi emblems are not allowed. When Mel Brooks' "The Producers" was being performed in Berlin, they had to get special permission to show the swastika.

3) On my first trip to Berlin, I went to my hotel's "business office" to print out my airline boarding pass. The computer keyboards had two languages--English and Hebrew. The hotel also had a kosher kitchen.

4) If you visit any of the Jewish museums or Holocaust Memorials, you will see a police presence and heavy security.

5) I was in Munich a few weeks after the Gaza war started. The Rathskellar (Town Hall), was flying an Israeli flag.

6) I hate to say it, but you're letting your mother's fears, and your aunts, and worries get to you. You've ignored it in the past and I suggest you ignore it again.

And yes, you have a much better chance of being attacked in Detroit than anywhere in Germany.

Posted by
687 posts

Mike, as I read your post, I was reminded of a book released just a couple of years ago that speaks to the multigenerational trauma of WW2 for Jews. It is by a Canadian journalist who is also the daughter of Holocaust survivors. Her name is Marsha Lederman and the book is ‘Kiss The Red Stairs: The Holocaust Once Removed, A Memoir’. It may be a helpful resource for you.

I grew up with parents who were both children in countries in Europe occupied by the Germans. My Dutch grandmother was always vague about whether we had any Jewish extended family members or ancestors and I know her experience in the Netherlands was more challenging than my Norwegian grandmother’s on my dad’s side. Both grandfathers died in 1939 (unrelated to the war) so these women had to raise their children on their own.

My parents divorced when I was young. To tie this to your post: my mother married a German-Canadian in the 1960s and my grandmother never accepted it or forgave her, even though he was a young child during WW2.

Your mother and aunt sound, understandably, deeply traumatized by the history you write of. They will likely never understand your wish to travel, even to Germany. But I encourage you to travel to Germany in spite of their concern. The only way we move past the horrors of history is to find our common ground with each other, person to person, country to country; humanizing what war tries to make inhuman.

Thank you for writing here and I hope the thread is able to remain.