Deutsche BahnCards and Regional Tickets - Rail questions in general

BahnCard: best advice, don't worry about it.

2 ways to travel Passau - Nuremberg:

1.) Travel on regional trains only using the Bayern Ticket day pass. Children are normally free with 2 parents on a Bayern Ticket, but with one child of adult age, you now have 3 adults - and the other two kids don't ride free with 3 adults - so buy the Bayern ticket for 5.

Buy from a ticket machine in Passau. On a Monday, the after-9-am restriction applies. So look for a trip after that hour. The Bayern Ticket also lets you use public transport (bus, tram, subway) within Nuremberg the same day. Trip takes 3+ hours.

2.) Saver fare (Sparpreis) lets you use the long-distance trains (faster.) Trip takes 2 hours. Buy online at DB. Booked well in advance, you can find a fare of €57 for the whole family. The longer you wait, the higher prices will go. But you must use the specific trains you use at the time of booking, so no time flexibility. And no public transport within the cities. Refunds are possible for a fee.

The Saver Fare is your best bet for Berlin - A'dam.

DB itinerary page: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
For trips with the Bayern ticket, you must specify "only local transport" to get the regional train schedules.

The Bahncard is a yearly subscription service that you have to pre-order (and provide a passport photo), and it only covers the ticket of the card holder, nobody else in the party. So yes, everyone in your family would need to pre-order their own Bahncard. Unless you make several long distance trips, I doubt it would pay off. And it also automatically renews every year, unless you specifically cancel it.

This year the Bayern-Ticket is 25€ for the first person, 6€ for each additional person, 49€ for 5 people.

Thanks for the correction there, Lee. I re-did my original post. (Boy - some days you wake up and can't get anything right.)

Understandable, the new price has only been in effect for a couple of weeks.

But you did good by pointing out that with the Bayern-Ticket you can only take all of your under 15 children if there are only one or two adults on the ticket. Basicallly, the Bayern-Ticket as well as most other day passes, but not all, can be used in one of two ways: 1) up to five persons of any age, and 2) one adult with all of their children/grandchildren under 15, and one other adult, which could be another child over 14, the other spouse, or an adult friend. However, it is not valid for two unrelated adults and all of each persons children. The second person could be your married child with their children, but then those children would also be your grandchildren.

Someone wrote in a year or so ago very incensed because they were fined for invalid use of a Bayern-Ticket. Both parents and an adult child tried to use a three person Bayern-Ticket with all of the parent children under 15. The English language description on the Bahn site was a little vague so they decided to interpret it in the way that best suited them.

I actually decided to write to DB to ask about the Bayern ticket because the language was a bit vague. Here is their reply:

"Unfortunately, children under 15 years only travel for free, with a maximum of two adults on the ticket. Since the 16 year old is considered an adult, you cannot book a ticket for three adults and let two children travel for free on the same ticket.

There are two solutions:

One ticket for five passengers or 1 ticket for two adults and the children, and a separate ticket for the remaining adult."

They also replied:

"You can just purchase the ticket for two adults and take your children along with you.
They do not have to be mentioned on the ticket.

Please note that you have to note down both adults name on the Bayern-Ticket, the second one can be added in writing on any blank space on the printed out ticket."

So, I would need to purchase a ticket for 2 travelers, using that one to cover my 2 under 15 children, then purchase a second single ticket for my 16 year old. Of course, that would cost me 25 + 6, + 25, so that would equal the 57 for the Sparpreis fare, so I will just have to pick one.

So, perhaps not as fast or cheaper than buying Sparpreis fares, but keeps the ability to ride around town when we get there.

And, I don't have to commit to leaving on a certain train, plus we could get off en route if we want. :-)

A 5 person Bayern Ticket cost €49 (€25 + €6 x 4), whereas 2 separate Bayern Ticket for 3 people cost €56 (€25 + €25 + €6). So there is no reason to buy 2 separate Bayern Tickets, because having the 2 younger kids ride "free" on one of the tickets would actually cost you €7 more than counting them on a 5 person ticket.

If you aren't planning to leave Passau until after 18:00 (6pm), then you can use a Night Bayern Ticket, which for 5 people cost €35 (€23 + €3 x 4).

2 separate Bayern Ticket for 3 people cost €56 (€25 + €25 + €6)

Yes, and 56€ just about equals 57€ for a Saving-Fare ticket for three (3x19€ and the two under 15 children go for free on the Saving-Fare ticket, but they, the children, have to be mentioned when you book the ticket).

plus we could get off en route if we want

Where would you want to get off? The ICE stops at only Plattling and Regensburg. I don't think any of the other stops with a Bayern-Ticket is worth a stopover, nor is Plattling, but you might want to stop for a few hours at Regensburg. You can use the "stopover" function to specify a 2, 4, or 6 hours in Regensburg and continue on in an ICE, or delete ICE, IC/EC, and D from the "means of transport" after Regensburg and continue on to Nürnberg on a regional train. You are not held to a specific regional train with a Savings-Fare ticket, you can spend as much time as you like in Regensburg. You can use any regional train to Nürnberg (Vor- und Nachlauf) as long as it follows the same route as the one on your ticket.

The ICE stops at only Plattling and Regensburg. I don't think any of the other stops with a Bayern-Ticket is worth a stopover,

I'd consider Straubing well worth a stopover.

Lee, thanks for the info. Actually, thanks to all for the info. When you write that I am not tied to a particular train on the saver-fare ticket, is that only when I use regional trains, not IC/ICE trains? I thought it indicated when you purchase the tickets that you are obligated to take the train you reserve?

I think just purchasing a 5 passenger Bayern-ticket is the way to go, for the cost, at least, and the flexibility. I would not have to specify a particular train, I can get on and off as I will, and I can use the local transit in Nürnberg. Is that an accurate summary?

Would I get "caught" using the Bayern-ticket incorrectly if I include my kids in the 5 travelers? It seems to me that if I purchase a space for them, that shouldn't matter.

Thanks for the discussion, all.

I would not have to specify a particular train, I can get on and off as I will, and I can use the local transit in Nürnberg. Is that an accurate summary?

Perfect. Just rembember that, legally, you are five adult travellers now, so you will have to put five names on the ticket. But don't worry, even most Germans don't know that and I see often conductors handing over pens to passengers (me and my wife included, somtimes;)) to fill in missing names. Have a good trip.

BTW, in case you will stay in Nuremberg and want to do day trips: don't do that on an Bayern ticket but on the much cheaper regional VGN+ ticket (and if you need help for that, don't ask the DB guys at the info counter in the Hbf, who are clueless in that respect. Go to the "Nuremberg Info", Königsstrasse 93, opposite the station at the entrance of the inner city).

I have similar questions, so all this information has been helpful. A special thanks to sla019 because I never even heard of VGN+ and this should be a good option for my trip.

I never even heard of VGN+ and this should be a good option for my trip.

Just don't forget to check whether your destination will be inside the VGN network:
http://m.vgn.de/verbundgebiet/ (download the PDF; I think you can pick up a printed map at the Nurnberg info mentioned above).

For example, a trip from Nürnberg to Bamberg or Rothenburg would be covered by the VGN+ ticket, a trip to Würzburg will not.

Happy planning and please feel free to ask further questions.

"I never even heard of VGN+ and this should be a good option for my trip."

The VGN Tagesticket Plus has a couple of neat features not shared by the Bayern Ticket.

• You can travel at any hour on weekdays. The BT has an after-9-am-only rule.
• If bought on Saturday, the VGN ticket is valid on Sunday also.

Two extra nice destinations that also are covered by the VGN ticket are IPHOFEN and BAD WINDSHEIM, home of the Franconian Freilandmuseum.

Good too know about VGN. We are staying for 3 nights and plan on a day trip somewhere, either Rothenburg or Bamburg.

I have looked at the VGN website - I can't find an English button. Unfortunately, it is straining my German ;-) Do you know if there is an English version? Thanks.

Google came up with this in about .00001 sec.
https://shop.vgn.de/index.php/tickets

Here is information on the VGN Tages-Ticket-Plus, which is good all day (or weekend) in the VGN district for 6 people, only 2 of whom can be over 18.

As for the SparPreis (Saver) Tickets, you must take any express train - ICE, IC/EC, or D (has anyone seen a D-Zug recently?) listed on ticket, but you can take any regional train, as long as it is still on the same route as the one on the ticket (and as long as you finish the journey by 10 AM the following day). So if you use a regional train to get to your ICE, you can, for instance leave on an earlier regional train and have more time where you are boarding the ICE. Or, after the ICE, you can spend more time in that town and take a later regional train to the end.

To force an intermediate stop (if the Bahn doesn't offer that connection), click on "add intermediate stops" (you might have to click on change to see it) and put in the name of the town. You can select the duration of the stop, or leave it blank and the ticket will be for the next train out.

You will than have 2 legs for your connection, from the start to the intermediate stop, and from there to the finish. If the Bahn tries to put you on an express train for the second leg, go to "means of transport" and unckeck ICE, IC/EC, and D for the second leg.

For a Savings Fare ticket, you must have at least one train leg that is specified.

The Bayern-Ticket is valid for five people of any age, as long as you buy a 5-person Bayern-Ticket (49€).

You all are wonderful! Thank you so much for all the information. It is making my planning that much easier.

I echo Jenny: All of the information has been helpful. There are many discount options, each with specific restrictions. I noticed that some require at least one person has a Bahn card and others can't be used in conjunction with Bahn cards. And the regions are confusing. Here's my basic itinerary, and this is for two people.

Arrive Frankfurt and immediately take the train to Nurnberg. Looking at the difference between Sparpreis Aktion and regular price, we'll commit to a specific train and hope there are no significant delays. Expected landing is 07:30 so we'll plan to be on either a 9:35 or 10:02 train. Any thoughts?

We then spend nine nights in Nurnberg. In addition to exploring that city, we plan a number of day trips. We'd prefer not to schedule all of these ahead of time so we have more flexibility. The best transportation I could find for Coburg is a Regio Ticket Franken Thüringen for 26 Euros. For regional tickets, do we buy ahead or on the day of travel?

For Bamburg we came up with a Tages Ticket + for 19.10 Euros from VGN. We could use the same ticket for Rothenburg ob der Tauber if we visit both on the same weekend? I noticed a previous writer suggested buying this at Konigstorpassage instead of Bahnhofsplatz in Nurnberg, but the latter is closer to where we'll be staying. Do the folks in the station really not know the VGN tickets? Again, can we buy these a day ahead or on the day of travel?

For a day in Wurtzburg I found a Bayern-Bohmen Ticket for 34.60 Euros.

The best price I came up with for Regensburg was 52 Euros with a Quer-Durch-Land Ticket.

When we leave Nurnberg we're heading to Mittenwald for a change of pace. I found a Bayern-Bohmen ticket for 34.60.

From Mittenwald to Augsburg there's a Sparpreis for 38 Euros, and from Augsburg back to Frankfurt there's another 38 Euro Spar Preis Aktion ticket.

Am I correct that I can buy the Sparpreis tickets through the internet and just print them at home? If I'm making any glaring mistakes in my planning, please advise!! And again, thank you to all who are willing to take their time to share their experience.

For a day in Wurtzburg I found a Bayern-Bohmen Ticket for 34.60 Euros.

A Bayern-Böhmen-Ticket is good if you are traveling from Bavaria into the Czech Republic. If you are not going into the CR, a regular Bayern-Ticket would be better for a day trip from Nürnberg.

The best price I came up with for Regensburg was 52 Euros with a
Quer-Durch-Land Ticket.

A Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket is for travel all across Germany on a work day. For a trip from Nürnberg to and within Regensburg, use a Bayern-Ticket.

When we leave Nurnberg we're heading to Mittenwald for a change of
pace. I found a Bayern-Bohmen ticket for 34.60.

Again, if you are not traveling through the Czech Republic, a Bayern-Böhmen-Ticket is not needed. A regular Bayern-Ticket will suffice.

Am I correct that I can buy the Sparpreis tickets through the internet
and just print them at home?

Basically true.

Do the folks in the station really not know the VGN tickets? Again,
can we buy these a day ahead or on the day of travel?

The folks at the Hbf will know about the VGN ticket. If you buy it ahead of time, be sure to specify the date. Regional tickets come with the date printed on them and are valid for only that date. They are not refundable.

The folks at the Hbf will know about the VGN ticket.

They, i.e. the people at the DB information desk, will know about the ticket, of course. But
neither do they sell it nor should you try to ask them about details of a connection involving U-Bahn, tram, and busses, which are not run by the DB but by several other carriers. That would be like asking Amtrak people at the Philadephia 30th Street station for details about SEPTA trains (which I did sillily once many years ago). *) That was what I meant when I suggested above to go rather to the VAG Customer Service or to the Nürnberg Info (VAG Kundencenter, in the basement betweeen the station and the entrance to the historical city; VAG is the transport authority of the city of Nuremberg. NürnbergInfo at Königsstraße 93 is the tourist info of the city of Nürnberg). But I'd suggest to download the DB App anyway, which makes you independent of people like those.

Buying VGN tickets: neither the DB info counter nor the DB ticket office will sell VGN tickets. The usual way of buying is from a ticket machine either in the train station (numerous in the central and eastern hall) or at U-Bahn stations. Set it to English, then push the green VGN button and select "Tagesticket Plus" (for a descripiton of ticket types look up http://www.vgn.de/en/tickets/all?Edition=en).

*) A couple of weeks ago a solo travelling woman complained that she had to drag her suitcase up to the Youth Hostel in the castle since she had been told at the DB info desk that there was no public transport to the castle. True, there is non DB-run S-Bahn to the castle. But there would have been a tram to the nearby Tiergärntertor. Just trams are not the business of the DB folks ...

From Mittenwald to Augsburg there's a Sparpreis for 38 Euros,

The saver ticket is not worth it here. The Mittenwald - München leg is by local transport. Only the rather short München - Ausburg leg could be an ICE ride, which would save you 10 minutes or so. Look up it on the DB info system: e.g., departing from Mittenwald at 9:36 would bring you to Augsburg by 12:00 with the train-specific Sparpreis (ICE) connection and at 12:09 with the flexible Bayern ticket. So, it's more flexible and a bit cheaper to travel on a Bayern Ticket (31E for two).

You guys are great to offer so much help. Thank you! The suggestions about Bayern tickets make sense and they are a little cheaper. I may be misinterpreting the DB site, but I think either my husband or I would need to have a Bahn Card to qualify for the Bayern prices on some of these trips.

Here's another kind of detailed question for someone familiar with Nurnberg: To get from the Hbf to the area south or away from old town, it looks like pedestrians go underground through traffic tunnels. Yes? How walker-friendly is this area? We are renting an apartment there.

Again, thanks for all your help.

To get from the Hbf to the area south or away from old town, it looks like pedestrians go underground through traffic tunnels. Yes? How walker-friendly is this area?

Right. Take the tunnel from the western hall of the station (the rightmost one facing the tracks), signposted "Südausgang". You can download a PDF map of the station here: http://www.bahnhof.de/bahnhof-de/Nuernberg_Hbf.html . In the upper right corner you will see "Südausgang" - there you will exit the station (beyond track 23, not shown on the map linked above). The area south of the station is unattractive but quiet. Not an pedestrian zone but walkable easily.

but I think either my husband or I would need to have a Bahn Card to qualify for the Bayern prices on some of these trips

Where did you read that? Neither Bayern Tickets nor Saver Fares require a BahnCard (a BahnCard gives you a 25% discount on Saver Fares, but in your case that never would pay off). Have a nice stay in Nürnberg!

On the English version of bahn.de, if I search Nurnberg to Wurzburg on May 2, there is an outbound at 9:30 and a return at 16:36. By clicking "To offer selection" as if I were going to make the purchase, a number of ticket options come up, including a Bayern ticket for 31 Euros, but the description to the left says "Valid only for passengers accompanying a Bahncard holder who has a valid ticket with Bahncard discount." I found this restriction on a number of Bayern ticket offerings.

Ok, I tested it with the outbound train at 9:31 and the return train leaving Würzburg 16:31 and now can replicate it:

»Specific-train booking, i.e. your ticket is only valid on the trains printed on the ticket. Valid only for passengers accompanying a BahnCard holder who has a valid ticket with BahnCard discount. Please enter the first name and surname of every passenger before departure.«

That's pure nonsens, apparently a bug in the data base. The German version states correctly:

»Gültig Mo. bis Fr. ab 9 Uhr, Sa., So. und feiertags ab 0 Uhr. Gültig für beliebig viele Fahrten am Geltungstag, unabhängig von der angegebenen Verbindung. Bitte vor Reiseantritt Name und Vorname aller Reisenden eintragen.«

Valid Mond to Fri from 9pm, saturdays and sundays from 0pm. Good for any rides on the day of validity, independent of the connection indicated [i.e., printed out on your ticket]. Please fill in pre- and surnames of all passenger befor departure.

So, i will mail that to the DB customer center. Don't care about the English text - the legally valid version is the German one anyway - and simply travel on your BT!

Thank you! Or maybe it's better in German: Ein detektiv! Danke!

Always better to read the text in the original than to rely on a translation, all the more so on a google translation. When you listen to announcements in the train stations, in den Hauptbahnhöfen or on the ICE trains, don't bet on getting the exact info in English as was said in the German. Listen to what is omitted in the English one.

Listen to what is omitted in the English one.

... and then help me to translate the announcements of the Saxonian conductor into average standard German.

I find that the best way to get VGN tickets and information (including great maps) is using the VGN Fahrplan und Tickets app on my iPhone.

I fact, to generalize about most German verkehrsverbund - regional transportation organizations - I find loading the appropriate apps before leaving home works very well for me. Maybe the best and easiest is the MVV for Munich.

Where would you find that Saxon accent? I should go to the smaller towns in Saxony. I heard train announcements made in Leipzig, Meißen, Dresden and had no problems cutting through the accent. There were speaking standard German. As long as they are not speaking Sächsisch, you should not have any problems understanding the standard German even if spoken with a Saxon accent.

That's pure nonsens[e], apparently a bug in the data base.

Not the first time this has happened recently. I think someone at the Bahn who doesn't really understand English is editing the conditions. There was a question here a month or so ago about something similar, about Länder-Tickets being only for specific trains, and I wrote to the Bahn and pointed it out to them. They said I was right and they would fix it. The part about Bahn cards was also in the text I pointed out to them, but they haven't changed it.

Lee, I believed the English language version of DB, and so I also believed that most of the Lander cards were train-specific. I need to re-do most of my train research.

Where would you find that Saxon accent?

Well, board any local train throughout Franconia.... Saxonian conductors and train drivers came over in large numbers after 1990 since they were much needed here, and they still keep coming. And in fact, while most of them do a decent job, some don't show the slightest inclination (or ability) to produce something understandable. For me that's mostly fun. My wife and me, if we hear a true saxonian announcement, we immediatly start an entertaining problem solving process: what did he say? and how did he say it? Recently, we were waiting at the platform in Lichtenfels (north of Bamberg), which the train couldn't leave due to some technical problem. Suddenly, the conductor standing next to us turned to me saying kindly »nugänmoforn« ("Nun können wir fahren", now we can go). When parsing that string, the most promising candidate for segmentation seemd to me the "forn" (fahren) und it helped to analyze the rest. Discovery of the day: Saxonian, like Franconian, has retained a full clictic pronominal system (»gänmo« = können-wir), which has evanished from the standard language centuries ago. Well, some people from the North didn't find that as entertaining and asked my to translate ... Admittelty, Franconian train drivers are not much better. When boarding an eastbound S-Bahn in Nürnberg, they are expected to announce the next maior station like "nächster Halt [next stop]: Lauf links der Pegnitz". What they are saying often is in fact: "Laff links".

I think, DB really should train conductors of local trains to make announcements understandable to everybody, not just to locals. The private competition does, and that's not the only aspect DB Regio is way behind them.

One more question, please: In going between Nurnberg and Coburg, DB website is offering either a Bayern ticket or a Regio Franken-Thüringen ticket. The latter is less expensive, so that sounds good to me, but I don't understand how lander tickets work when going between regions.

A Länder ticket is valid in an entire state (Land, in German) and some areas immediately outside the state. Both Nürnerg and Coburg are in the same state, Bavaria, the Bayern ticket is all you need. I'm not familiar with a Regio Franken-Thüringen ticket, but by the name, I would guess at a minimum, it is valid anywhere within the Franconian administrative region plus parts of or all of the neighboring state of Thüringen. Once again, both Coburg and Nürnberg are part of Franconia.

The Franken-Thüringen ticket covers Franconia and extends into Thüringen as far as Jena. It is slightly cheaper than the Bayern Ticket (€20 for the first traveller, additional travellers €6 each) but it has some restrictions, e.g., not every local bus carrier honors it. The Coburg transport authority accepts the BT (they even sell it) but there is no info on their web site with respect to the FT ticket.

Tom,

This page of the Bahn will allow you to find all of the regional tickets, by Land, not just the Länder-Tickets. I notice there are almost more of them in Bavaria than there are in all the rest of Germany combined.

And here is the Streckenkarte for the Regio-Ticket Franken-Thüringen.

I don't believe that these Regio-Ticket include any conveyances of Verkehrverbünde. The Geltungsbereich for the FT-Ticket shows it is only valid on some Nahverkehrszüge lines, not even on the S-Bahn in Nürnberg.