DB train from Munich to Venice

Googled, AI says. “No, a standard 1st class ticket on Deutsche Bahn (DB) does not guarantee a seat unless you purchase a separate seat reservation. A ticket for a specific date and train is not the same as a seat reservation, and it is possible to have to stand if the train is full.” Sorry, it may be absurd but it sounds like that’s how it works. Hopefully someone can offer up some recourse….

What recourse do we have?!

Depending on the ticket type you bought, tickets might be useable at a different hour that day for which seats may be reservable. Or they may be refundable if you do not wish to travel; the options you have are provided by ticket type below:

https://int.bahn.de/en/offers/saver-flexible-fares

If I understand correctly, they are on the direct RJ from Munich to Venice that arrives at Venezia S. Lucia at 18:25, then returning the following day at 15:35 and arriving at Munich at 22:28. So that gives 21 hours in Venice, at least 8 of those sleeping in a hotel room, after spending 7 hours on a train in each direction. Maybe the best strategy would be to skip the whole thing and enjoy more time in Munich.

I think it is absurd that you can buy 1st class tickets and end up
sitting on the floor. What a counterintuitive setup.

Train travel in Europe is a different beast. Not much about it is intuitive unless you were raised in the culture (with as often as our European train experts disagree with each other, not even sure that it is true). But a fine way to travel for some trips. You just gotta go with the flow. My guess is you will find seats on the train. Maybe not in first class. I would give it a shot. But I would bring one of these along just in case https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DDgAAOSwxnBlZaWy/s-l1200.jpg

When you suggest to a German that it would be a good idea to have reservations included in train tickets they look at you as if you just suggested we sacrifice their first born to the gods. It is a cultural thing. People do not realise how beyond the pale compulsory reservations on trains is in Germany.
A German wants to be able to board the train he wants, and prefers to sit on the floor in his chosen train, rather than be forced to travel at a different time. Germans treat their trains as a nationwide S-Bahn.

So that is why reservations are not included, and remain optional.

Of course, if you have a 1st class ticket, and end up without a seat you are due a refund of the price difference with a 2nd class ticket. So that is something.

The RJ services on that date are at the moment temporarily not reservable. So it is not that the train is booked out (that a train is fully booked a week advance only happens when a railway is grossly incompetent). ÖBB is just not certain at the moment that the train will actually run according to the currently published schedule. They are at the mercy of the Italians here.

So look again in a few days, or go the train station when you are in Münich. There will be a way to get to Venice, and I am pretty sure that there will be seats.

I think it is absurd that ... Are trains usually full?

Most of us might find it absurd that people are not able to simply read given information and ask such questions that obviously nobody can answer.

And it is so simple: the booking process show you the expected demand of a connection. In your case "Medium demand expected". Tip: reading and understanding before complaining will help you traveling through Europe.

I've taken four DB trains in the last three weeks. All in first.

Don't always go by the seating chart.

On one of my trains, it showed all "single" seats full when I went to make my seat reservation. The reality was they were not.

On the last train, there was a warning that they expected high demand and suggested making seat reservations. For most of the trip the cabin was half full. For a small part, it was almost all full.

But I've also been on DB trains, FC, when people stood or sat on the floor in first.

In fact, this past spring, my train was cancelled at the last minute and my reservation was transferred to the next train. When I got to my seat, someone was in it. The "reservation" sign showed empty. (They didn't have enough time to transfer the information.) However, when I showed him my new ticket, he got up. As the train progressed, and people got off, those standing would take the seats if they were not claimed.

I think I found out what is happening.

There is railway strike on those days In Italy. So ÖBB probably does not know yet if there will be a driver for that train...

I guess Bamberg's Klein Venedig (Little Venice) is not sufficient as replacement. And a Spreewald water tour in winter is ...

You have cultures where people recognize that they probably walked through the remains of dog poop at least once during the last couple of days; and so remove their shoes at the door when entering a home, so when the sit on the floor or drop something on the floor of their home .... well you get it. Then you have cultures such as, "A German wants to be able to board the train he wants, and prefers to sit on the floor" For the 100 to 200 euro cost of a first class ticket that sounds reasonable.

Or it could be that seats are sold separately so that they can sell more tickets than seats?

Dang Italians! afetkilinc, if this is an important part of your trip, you might want to buy a plane ticket. Yikes, I just looked. Buying plane tickets this late thanks to DB selling tickets on a train they didnt think would go really put you in a jamb. Sorry. If you end up canceling the leg, or flying or sitting on the floor, do come back and let us know how you resolved it or if you got any refund or .....

Or it could be that seats are sold separately so that they can sell more tickets than seats?

Tickets are for a route, not a train. Not selling more tickets then there are seats is not possible as most of the time when a ticket is sold the railway company does not know, nor care, what train the ticket is going to be used on. In my youth tickets were valid for two months and we bought tickets to the other side of Europe without even knowing the schedule.

That is why reservations are separate.

Tickets are for a route, not a train.

Unless something is getting lost in translation, that appears to be an over generlaization.

What the DB Website says:

30 December 08:52
ICE 724 Munich to Frankfurt

Super Sparpreis, 2nd class
€53.99
Train-specific travel
No cancellations

Flexpreis 2nd class
€126.10
Unrestricted choice of trains
Cancellation free of charge before first day of validity

What the DB Website says:
30 December 08:52
ICE 724 Munich to Frankfurt
Super Sparpreis, 2nd class
€53.99
Train-specific travel
No cancellations

That's really nothing new, is it? If you want to travel cheaply, you just have to live with restrictions. On the other hand,

"... and prefers to sit on the floor" For the 100 to 200 euro cost of a first class ticket that sounds reasonable.

at that price, you probably have a standard-fare ticket anyway, which includes a seat reservation in first class. Of course, you have to choose your seat. If you forget to do so, like the OP, there's no reason to complain.

And, by the way, there's no reason to complain about DB or ÖBB if they can't sell seat reservations because there's a strike in Italy.

Mr É: When you look closer at a Sparpreis ticket you will notice that it will say somewhere that it is actually valid for 2 whole days.

The standard ticket is still for a route, and a period. But yes, in exchange for a discount you commit to take, if possible. a particular train. However the moment that the railways does something that makes that impossible for you (like change the schedule by a whole minute...) the ticket does default back to a flexible ticket. There are a lot of reasons why the train binding can be lifted

That is also why in Germany (and other countries that run their railways along similar lines) you do not need to have your ticket exchanged if you miss a connection. You just hop on the next train as the "train binding" is now lifted.

Note that normally the railways has to get you to your desintation, unless there is something out of their control. However a strike does not mean that all trains are cancelled. The problem is that in case of a strike each driver needs to declare wether they will take part or not, so that usually means that only about 48 hours in advance the railroad knows which drivers they will have, and thus which trains they can operated.

So, under normal conditiins some tickets are for trains, some tickets are for routes. Okay. Makes sense.

at that price, you probably have a standard-fare ticket anyway, which
includes a seat reservation in first class

Today the prices are 69, 79 and 233 euro in 1st class. The only one that comes with a seat is the 233 euro ticket.

So, under normal conditiins some tickets are for trains, some tickets are for routes. Okay. Makes sense.

Basically the difference is between NRT and IRT. German tickets are NRT. (Non Reserved Ticket)

If you in Germany buy a ticket from eg. Hamburg to Münich, and it involves 3 trains it will still just show "Hamburg to Münich", and a validity date and time, wich will be two whole days. So even though you booked three trains, you get one ticket. The ticket is for the route Hamburg to Munich.
If you buy a discounted ticket the only thing that is added is the lines "Zugbindung" with some train numbers. The rest stays the same. The "Zugbindung" gets lifted when when you miss a connection, there is a delay, or a schedule change. The ticket then automatically becomes a flexible one. You do not need to go to the ticket office to have it exchanged. Because the ticket is for the route, and the restrictions have been lifted.

In Italy if you book a trip that involves three trains you get three tickets, one for each train. If for some reason you need to take a different train than you planned you need to exchange the ticket. That because there tickets are indeed only valid for a particular train. That is an IRT ticket. (Integrated Reservation Ticket).

Italy, France, Spain and also Eurostar issue IRT tickets. Central Europe and the Benelux countries issue NRT tickets. .It is good to know the difference.