Cochem’s Imperial Castle or Cologne’s Cathedral ?

This is on your first day. Yes , they will be jet lagged. I am not familiar with Cochem's Imperial Castle but have been to the Cologne Cathedral several times. I would recommend the castle only because Cologne's traffic is not something I would want to experience on an arrival day (not sure about any other day).

Flying from where?
Two resembling castles in one day when there is much more to see in Cochem?
Or, one of the world’s major cathedrals in an important city tacked onto the end of a long day?

Cologne is north of St. Goar. You drive right past it to go to Cologne and would have to backtrack south for St. Goar or another Rhine town.

Could you lay out your itinerary on a night-by-night basis for clarity,

Flying from Atlanta to Frankfurt. We’ll get some sleep on the plane, but obviously will be tired. Plan on still seeing a sight or two before retiring early for the evening.
Sun 8/23 6p leave ATL -> Frankfort, arrive Mon 8/24 at 9am.
Day 1 (Mon 8/24) - this is the day I am asking about. Spend night in St. Goar (or somewhere along the Rhine River).
Day 2 (Tues 8/25) - boat cruise along Rhine, train back. After dinner, drive to Rothenburg to spend night there.
There’s more to our trip, but I am just focusing on Day 1 here. Not an option to extend the time here. Hopefully this clarifies enough? Thank you!

You should be done with the airport by 10 - 11:00. Nonetheless, Day 1 will be tough for one or more of you, and planning almost anything that first day is not a great idea after a red-eye flight across many time zones. I say you need to get to St. Goar, check in, see how everyone is doing at that point, and only THEN is it wise to consider your sightseeing choices. I would have a list of things in hand that you might do locally after you have freshened up...

One smart choice might be Rheinfels Castle, which is right in town.

This little place in St. Goar is just the thing for some kids.

Stop in at Montag's Cuckoo Clock shop for a look around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=RLOurnJAeOQ&feature=emb_logo
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/965/42066351252_f691953775_b.jpg

You could take a short trip to Boppard and do the chairlift ride - then walk a couple hundred yards to Gedeonseck terrace, have refreshments and enjoy the view.

Cologne and Eltz on THAT day? Either would be too much IMHO.

I would suggest one other option... a Rhine River Cruise. There are scheduled cruises at 11:30, 1:15, 2:30, and 4:30 pm in the summer. They leave from Bingen, and arrive in St. Goar 1.5 hours later after showing you the most spectacular part of the river. You could do this after check into your St. Goar hotel, or perhaps do this on your way to St. Goar since Bingen is on the way... Drive to Bingen, park, cruise to St. Goar and check in. Then the driver takes the train back to Bingen to pick up the car and return to St. Goar.

It would not be my choice to drive that first day either. Jet-lag and/or drowsiness create impaired drivers. It's very easy to take the train from FRA to St. Goar or Bingen (you can pick up a car on Day 2.)

I agree that Burg Eltz is to far and too much for arrival day, especially at the height of high season. Have you driven in Europe before?

To me, the two choices in the Subject line are not remotely comparable. Now, you made it clear that this is an American outing in a mighty steel steed, but Cologne is exceptional for the fact that 75% of the best attractions are all within walking distance of the Hauptbahnhof! And driving and parking in Cologne is a pain. There may be a shortage of parking spaces at Burg Eltz, and a line to enter, but it's not "a pain" to get to, it's just too far from the main Rhine highways for this busy day.

I have been to Europe at least 50 times, and you are overestimating your ability to drive that distance and that many exit ramps safely after (even a Business Class) flight over the Atlantic. I know you don't believe me, but it is my job to say so. I have not been to Cochem, but in general, it is easier to park smaller cars in most of Europe.

Just read your time-constrained schedule for Days 1 and 2 (which ends in Rothenburg.)

I think I would recommend skipping the Rhine, the Mosel, Cologne, and the rest. It's all in the wrong direction for your journey to Rothenburg, it's all fairly time-consuming, and you have too little time on the most difficult of days to get all those things under your belt. See it on another trip when you have the proper time?

If you were going to skip Rothenburg (which would be a better idea IMHO!) it might be a different matter.

Instead I suggest heading toward Rothenburg on Day 1. Würzburg is a good destination for your first night if you don't want to make the longer trip to Rothenburg. I'd catch a direct train from FRA to W'burg, maybe see the Residenz that afternoon if you are up to it. Then pick up your car on Day 2 (I got mine at the Railway station last time I rented there) and then you can take a nice drive along the Main River - and make some stops in some very nice towns on the way to Rothenburg:

Marktbreit and Ochsenfurt
Sommerhausen

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. If we didn’t get our rental car from Frankfurt, where else would be a convenient place to get our rental car?

If we flip-flopped and did some of our Rhine River site seeing on Day 1, would it be too difficult to drive to Burg Eltz on Day 2 and then drive to Rothenburg? I know they are in opposite directions.

By day 2 you shouldn't be a driving hazard (at least no more than usual, heh.)

Where to get your car... What you might do on Day 1 is...

Train to Bingen + cruise to St. Goar for your one night. St. Goar is only 25 minutes from KOBLENZ by train. So you could all hop on the train in the morning of Day 2 and pick up your car there (I believe the Koblenz railway station pick-up can still be arranged, I did that once many years ago.)

It would also be possible to just take the train to Koblenz right after your cruise on Day 1 and spend the night there (not that Koblenz has the scenic setting of St. Goar - it doesn't.) Then get your car for Burg Eltz in the morning.

But having seen pretty much all the Rhine castles, I think your apparent confidence in Burg Eltz as the ultimate castle might be a little misplaced. I like Marksburg more - and it's only 10 minutes from Koblenz.

I still vote for a second night and more time on the Rhine/Mosel. You're skipping a lot there. Rothenburg can actually be seen in a few hours, and on your way to somewhere else, IMHO; the Rhine/Mosel is somewhat spread out and takes more time.

Thank you Russ (& Tim)!

Maybe I wasn’t clear, my intention was always to see Marksburg Castle while at the Rhine as well as Burg Eltz. It wasn’t an either/or.

Here’s a more detailed Itinerary with your input with current modifications:

Day 1: Arrive from red-eye into Frankfurt at 9am. Take train to Bingen. Take cruise to St. Goar. Leave luggage with TI. See Rheinfels. Take train to to Koblenz with luggage (or catch 3:55p boat, arriving Koblenz at 6:10p. That seems pretty long, but that’s how I read the 2020 schedule. Not sure if that’s worth it.). Stay in Koblenz (would rather stay elsewhere but seems like this is is best for what we are trying to do). Go to bed early.

Day 2: Train to Braubach to see Marksburg castle. Train back to Koblenz, get rental car. Drive to Burg Eltz.
Afterwards, drive to Rothenburg to spend the night. Not sure if will be able to get there in time for the 8p Night Watchman Tour (I think the kids would enjoy it).
Time estimations:
-8:55a train to Braubach
-11:54a train back to Koblenz
-32 min drive to Burg Eltz. 2 hours to eat, get car.
-~3-4p tour Burg Eltz.
-3hr 15min drive to Rothenburg.

Day 3: Tour Rothenburg. Need to end evening in Füssen. Open to suggestions here. Like the idea of not rushing, especially since previous 2 days were full. (2hr 30 min drive to Füssen)

Day 4: Tour Hohenzollern then Neuschwanstein (one of 1st tours, 9/9:30). Leave after lunch ~12:30/1p. Drive to see either Lichtenstein/ Hohenzollern/ Burg Guttenberg (leaning to latter bc of bird of prey show).

Not sure yet where to sleep that night. Heidelburg or Mannheim. Would like to consider Heidelberg, but not sure if that’s worth the added complexity the next morning.

Day 5: Morning train ride from Mannheim to Paris. (This is hard end time)

I know this is quite aggressive! I welcome input. 😊

I would end the first day in St. Goar. Rheinfels is my favorite German castle. I think the kids would prefer going thru the tunnels rather than seeing furniture 😂😂. I would maybe take the cable car across the Rhine in Koblenz to the fortress before getting the car and driving straight to Rothenburg in plenty of time to explore the town and seeing the Night Watchman tour, After the royal castles maybe see Schloss Lichtenstein if the kids want to see another castle. It’s nice from the outside even if you don’t go inside. There is a ropes course and cave nearby that the kids might enjoy.

Heidelberg is more interesting than Mannheim ( it’s o.k. however ) but staying in Mannheim will make catching the train easier. If you stay in the center of Mannheim, make sure you understand the unique address numbering system - I’m not sure even the locals do,

"I welcome input."

I was unaware you were thinking of circumnavigating much of Southern Germany and doing all that ground travel - in only 4 days - and doing the check-in/check-out + unpack/pack up routine every day as well. And all with the near-singular objective of taking tours of as many castles/palaces as possible (well, you had one church in your sights too.) And you picked your castles/palaces in such far-flung locations. I can't help but think of all the OTHER great things about Germany you and the kids might enjoy very much but are missing out on because of your narrow focus and because of the large piece of geography you are attempting.

In the same way that Burg Guttenberg was totally off your radar, the options below are "low-hanging fruit" near FRA that are probably unfamiliar to you. They would add some real variety and greatly reduce the number of hours you spend in your car. No way is there time to do them all - pick what sounds most interesting.

Rhine/Mosel:

1) https://www.loreleybob.de/ (right across the river from St. Goar)

2) https://reichsburg-cochem.de/knights-meal/?lang=en (you already know about Reichsburg in Cochem)

3) https://www.klotti.de/en/ (only minutes from Cochem - includes falconry show - quite popular)

4) https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g198637-d10195864-Reviews-Bundesbank_Bunker_Cochem-Cochem_Rhineland_Palatinate.html (In Cochem)

5) https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g187345-d546947-Reviews-Siegfried_s_Mechanisches_Musikkabinett-Ruedesheim_am_Rhein_Hesse.html (In Rüdesheim am Rhein)

6) Pfalzgrafenstein Castle (north of Rüdesheim am Rhein)

7) http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/index_en.htm - the Remagen Bridge WW II Museum (north of Koblenz)

8) MAINZ: Cathedral, Antique Shipbuilding museum, Ancient Roman historical sites, the Johannes Gutenberg Museum.

Heidelberg / Burg Guttenberg area:

1) Heppenheim (beautiful town and shoot location for that "The Heist" Superbowl ad) by Porsche

2) Speyer (cathedral, Technik Museum)

3) Palaces around Heidelberg

4) Well-preserved Michelstadt

Thanks, Russ, for taking the time to reply with all those other site-seeing suggestions. I will look through those links.

Yes, our time in Germany is very much castle/palace-focused. Sort of my intention... :-) I love the links about the Knight's Feast...I'll see if they are available on our travel dates.

My biggest dilemma with coming up with our itinerary (and only 4 days to spare) is the desire to see Neuschwanstein, which is out of the way from the Rhine River area, which I most definitely want to visit. And, the flights are already booked to Frankfurt (vs Munich which may have been a better place to fly into, in retrospect). We are big Disney fans, and it would be really need to see Neuschwanstein, so I am having a hard time considering letting it go . . . (no pun intended ;-) ).

Thanks, Stephen, also, for your suggestions! I am re-thinking the order of arrival and getting the car, and I think we can just get our car on our way out the 2nd day in Koblenz and stay in St. Goar as suggested.

"We are big Disney fans..."

Me too. Nothing wrong that. And there's nothing "wrong" about visiting a fake castle like N'stein. The only thing wrong is torqueing your entire itinerary to include it with so little time. Maybe letting go is easier with these thoughts in mind.

N'stein in fact is only one of several real-world buildings that inspired the Disneyland Castle.

Cinderella's Castle was inspired by Neuschwanstein Castle in Bavaria
and many French designs such as the Palace of Versailles,
Fontainebleau, and the chateaus of Chambord, Chaumont, and Chenonceau.

https://www.thetravel.com/castles-real-life-disney-inspiration-visit/

(Maybe some of these other places would be worth your time and closer to where you'll be.)

N'stein masquerades as a castle behind a fake castle exterior - you'd be visiting a fake that inspired a fake.

N'stein isn't terribly significant. It was built then inhabited by Ludwig II for 6 months before his death. Nothing of historical importance ever took place there. It's just a big, unique royal residence.

The overcrowded N'stein tour takes less than 30 minutes. Many consider it a tourist trap.

https://www.dw.com/en/is-neuschwanstein-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/a-17887035

Neuschwanstein will continue to be under renovation until 2022.

In the event you choose to stick with your original plan anyway...

Day 1: I agree with the idea of keeping St. Goar as your overnight stop.

Day 2: Train to Koblenz; pick up rental car at Koblenz Hbf station. Drive car to Eltz for tour; THEN visit Marksburg by car. It will not only go faster this way... you will also be able to catch the ENGLISH language tour of Marksburg (at either 1 or 4 pm)

N'stein masquerades as a castle behind a fake castle exterior

The same can be said of the "Imperial castle in Cochem" (Reichsburg). The original medieval castle was destroyed in the 17th century and sat in ruins for two hundred years before the ruins were bought in 1868 by a Berlin businessman and rebuilt as his private "chateau" (as they explain on the tour). The exterior was rebuilt to look like the original castle, but inside it is just a luxurious residence, not a real castle. I took the tour in 2008 and was disappointed to find that out. Almost all castles in the area were destroyed around the 17th century (thank you France) and have only recently been rebuilt as residences, hotels, hostels, etc. Only Rheinfels (still in ruins) and the Marksburg, on the Rhein, and Burg Eltz, on the Mosel, are original.

So, the Rhine River area is the place to be for original castles! :-)

Ok, ok, if I give up N’stein on this trip (sniff, but it may be for the better...), how would you suggest adjusting the itinerary (still including visiting Rothenburg, maybe Guttenberg for the falconry show??)? Two nights at St. Goar? Somewhere else in north Bavaria? Day 5 we need to be heading on a morning train to Paris.

You all have given me much to consider! It’s much appreciated!!!

Or, do I change the order of everything and go towards Rothenburg first? Stay in Würzburg? (Assuming we give up N’stein). The night Watchman tour would be nice to include (although may be hard for kids to stay up for if we do this the first night). Then, head westward? My head is starting to spin with all the options. 😂

Yes, Reichsburg is mostly newer as well (though certain former elements do remain) and it's good for visitors to know that.

Good explanation of Reichsburg here from Hyde Flippo, a US college teacher, writer, and authority on things German.

There's quite a lot of on-site history that took place there. I found the tour interesting and more relaxed than N'stein's. Like N'stein, I don't see anything "wrong" (on the basis of its inauthenticity anyway) with a visit there if you are in the neighborhood (which the OP will be) and you know what it's all about. The problem with N'stein for the OP is not necessarily its non-castle status as much as its ridiculously distant location so far from FRA and the Rhine and the other drawbacks. With more time in the area, a possible visit to Reichsburg could easily be included among the options.

Itinerary: You've pre-bought a ticket from Mannheim to Paris? At what hour?

Itinerary: Why not try this (still rushed I think) as a template. I think it will work if you need to get to Mannheim for the 4th night.

From FRA you're closer to the Rhine/Mosel than Rothenburg - so go there first.

Day 1: as before... train > Bingen, cruise > St. Goar, Rheinfels

Day 2: > Koblenz for car > Eltz > Cochem (for whatever - lots there and nearby - a waterpark as well btw.) > back to St. Goar for 2nd night

Day 3: Check out. Then...

See old world towns - your choice - Bacharach? Oberwesel? Boppard? They're all close in to St. Goar.

Then > Marksburg for 1 pm castle tour in English.

Then > to Rothenburg for the night.

Day 4 > Morning in Rothenburg; then > Hassmersheim and Burg Guttenberg, then Mannheim for the night. Drop car in Mannheim.

I think it's a long and unnecessary detour to Rothenburg when there's a lot of nice stuff to see closer to Mannheim. You could just go to the Guttenberg Castle area to finish Day 3 instead. But I'm guessing you probably see it differently.

We haven’t pre-bought any tickets yet. We need to be in Paris at about 1pm (approximate) on Day 5. I see there’s a 9:39a train that leaves Mannheim for Paris, arriving at 12:38. So, that would be a good train to be on, but I am open to alternative trains as long as we can get to Paris by around 1p or so.

Sorry, Russ, I missed your reply when I sent my train to Paris reply.

I really like your suggested itinerary! Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the time you have invested in helping me. I hear you that it’s still rushed... but it does feel like a big improvement from my initial. I am still tied to the driving to Rothenburg idea even though out of the way. The kids and I have been studying medieval history, castles, walled cities, etc., so the detour, I believe, will be worth it to us, even though touristy.

"The kids and I have been studying medieval history, castles, walled cities, etc.,"

You will probably want to have a walk around Oberwesel's old town wall. Here is a guide:

https://www.oberwesel.de/en/wandern0/stadtmauerrundweg/

Oberwesel is just south of St. Goar.

I don't think it was pointed out that, while Koblenz' perimeter has an attractive view of the Rhine gorge, it is not remotely necessary to approach it by boat. It is possible that if you splurge on an all-day, all-distance boat ticket, that it seems "easier" to continue on to Koblenz by boat. But the scenery is greatly inferior to anything south of St. Goar, and the train is about ten times as fast as the boat. The one thing you don't have enough of is ... time! Koblenz has two train stations, so know where your hotel or car agency is.

I would also speculate that you may find the Mosel section of your trip to be more diffuse, leisurely, less-intensely sight-filled. Most travelers welcome that respite, but you have programmed a high-intensity trip.

I want to throw in that while the exterior of Burg Eltz is remarkable, the interior is "occupied" by a modern family, so many of the rooms do not look like Charles V lives there. It was a small disappointment to me. In that respect, I liked the Wartburg tour better.

Our family prefers walking around medieval town centers to visiting the interiors of castles - authentic or otherwise.