Clarity regarding timetable change for train with a mandatory reservation

All French highspeed trains require seat reservations (even trains operated by DB), so I don't think there is anyway around that. Connecting trains in Germany do not require seat reservations.
What is your travel date?

Thanks Sam.
My date of travel would be the 6th of October.

I see that you can reserve a seats through to Salzburg for 4.90 EUR on the Deutsche Bahn website. A note on all the departure for October 6 contain notes "Train cannot be reserved at the moment". I would wait until daytime European time to reserve.

Which trains did you originally book?

DB is changing schedules a lot these days. And they are not communicating this well to their passengers. This is especially a problem with trips that cross the border between Latin and Germanic Europe... DB does not do compulsory reservations, so just expects you to find yourself another train. SNCF does do compulsory reservations, and does not offer a way to get a reservation for an existing ticket...

Anyway. You have a ticket, so the railways actually must take care of you. In your case the first railways that is involved is the French railways, as till the French border you are traveling on a French train. (Even if it is one with DB logos on it...). So it is actually SNCF that needs to solved this issue for you. Best place to get this done is probably at the station. If you have some time in Paris do that.

@Sam,
I believe the 4.90 EUR seat reservation ticket is only from Mannheim to Salzburg. Because I tried to filter only trains from Mannheim to Salzburg and it showed the same seat reservation charge of 4.90 EUR. I will anyways wait until European day time to check again. Thank you.

Another thing I notice is that my cancelled ticket was for a ICE train whereas all the alternate trains (at least the ones which can get me to Salzburg on time ) are all TGVs. Would that be a problem?

Can I board a TGV train with a cancelled ticket for ICE train (considering they are managed by SNCF) ?

@WengenK,
My original ticket was with two stops...

ICE 9571 - Paris Est to Stuttgart Hbf
ICE513 - Stuttgart Hbf to München Hbf
BRB RE5 - München Hbf to Salzburg Hbf

Now that this is cancelled, I am hoping to board the below trains to make it to Salzburg in time.
TGV 9561 - Paris Est to Mannheim Hbf
EC 115 - Mannheim Hbf to Salzburg Hbf

A couple of things to be aware off:

The train you booked is an ICE, but it is still an SNCF operated train. There are no DB operated trains in France (and no SNCF operated trains in Germany).

By law the railways have to offer you an alternative connection when a train is cancelled. The onus on offering you that is in this case on SNCF, as they are the once operating the train that got cancelled (at least at the start). SNCF has a habit of not informing passengers of their rights, and might just offer a refund. Refuse that.

Contact SNCF, or go to a ticket office in France.

Thanks @WengenK,

I could check with SNCF staff at the station but my concern is that I will only be arriving in Paris a day before the train departure and I just hope the alternate train doesn't get fully booked or the case where I am required to pay a huge amount for a new ticket.

I have anyways sent out a mail to both DB Bahn and SNCF on there portals. Received an acknowledgement from DB Bahn but nothing from SNCF yet (no way to track it either). This can get quite frustrating especially when you are traveling with elderly family members.

I see that the connecting EC 115 is showing "high demand expected" for October 6, so it might be wise to purchase seat reservations for that leg.

I know this can be frustrating, as the Railways in Europe still have some way to go where it comes to actually treating their passengers as customers. Lets see what DB says.

Note that "high demand" means that they expect that a lot of people will want to take the train, not that all reservations will be gone. Most people in Germany still travel without reservations. So it is rare for a train to be fully reserved. If you suggest in Germany that DB ought to introduce mandatory reservations for its long distance trains the people look at you as if you just suggested killing children...

This can get quite frustrating especially when you are traveling with elderly family members.

Thus the reason to reserve seats if you all want to sit together. While you may be able to find open individual seats on a "high demand expected" train, they will not necessarily be together, or even in the same carriage. Do you want to wander through 5 or 6 carriages looking for available seats, all while hauling your luggage on a moving train, or do you want to board your assigned carriage and sit in your assigned seats?

Based on my experience/observations this summer, if you see " Hohe Auslastung" (high demand/capacity) , #1 ..expect that train to be packed and as the train departs, expect to see every seat or just about will be occupied. For your departure, you had better get seat reservations, otherwise as you go through the coach, you'll see seat after seat reserved, the cities being indicated. Realistically, your group may not be able to sit together or get reservations near each other.

I took that Mannheim - Salzburg route, but going to Mannheim instead, for the connection to Paris Est, (had seat reservation for every train connection), which after delays finally was cancelled around 8:20 PM. The wording caught me and everyone else waiting totally off guard, people started looking at phones, trying to come with Plan B, asking each other, etc. I had no such Plan , so I left right away.

Thanks all for chipping in.

I am constantly following the seats reservation status for EC 115 and will definitely book the seats at the earliest.
Just waiting for any kind of confirmation/ clarity on the train to take out of Paris, worst case what if I need to take a different direction and train from Paris, which might not go to Mannheim.

I have never experienced that an ICE which was announced with "high occupancy" was actually full to the last seat (this happens rather when a previous train can not continue for some reason or when a horde of Mallorca homecomers in FRA storms the train). On our last trip from Halle to Augsburg, my wife and I couldn't sit together at first, but two fellow passengers told us that they would get off in Erfurt and we could then take their seats. People usually arrange themselves somehow.

BTW, did the email from DB you received not contain an alternative connection? If so, I'd go to the ticket window in Paris und demand reservations for that.

Hi,

There is another way on the topic of leaving Paris and getting into Germany, where I assume would reduce greatly the chances of your train ride being cancelled.

If your aim is to arrive somewhere in Germany from Paris, after which you can proceed with traveling in Germany, then I would suggest this: Take the TGV Paris to Metz, seat reservations are mandatory. From Metz take the regional train to the first city across the border, ie, Saarbrücken, where you can change to Mannheim on a regional train.

This route may be a bit more circuitous and take more time but you will be on a much less crowded train and one not liable to be delayed or cancelled. I did exactly that on 10 Sept, Metz to Forbach/Lorraine, then to Saarbrücken, changing to Frankfurt. Those train routes likely to be delayed , I mean more than 10 minutes, or cancelled are direct shots between Paris and Mannheim or Frankfurt.

@sla019, yes the DB mail regarding cancellation did contain a link with the list of alternate trains which also included the TGV route out of Paris. And yes I will try and check at the train station for a seat reservation against my cancelled ticket, just hope 4th or 5th October is not too late for a 6th October departure. So I can just go to any customer support desk at the station or should it be a DB Bahn desk or SNCF desk as such?

@Fred, thank you for the Paris > Metz > Saarbrücken > Mannheim route. Will keep this as one of my options.

Also, any info regarding the response time from DB Bahn or SNCF, to emails. Are they as bad as the internet suggests?

You will not find a DB service desk in Paris Est, nor in any other French station, as DB does not run any trains in France. DB and SNCF have an agreement that they will not compete against each other.

So trains from France to Germany are all operated under the responsibility of SNCF until the border, where DB takes over. Hence on those trains (even those labeled "ICE") you will encounter French conductors till Strasbourg, where the crew (including the driver) changes. SNCF have just pooled trains for those services, so some are operated with a trainset owned by SNCF, and others with one owned by DB. But in France these are all SNCF trains.

So if you want to do this in person at a station in France you just need to go to the SNCF ticket counter. But I would first wait till DB answers. But if you go to the counter just ask for an exchange of the ticket for one that includes a train that at least gets you to Karlsruhe. From there on the more flexible German rules apply.

The core issue here is that the operating philosophy of DB is very different from that of SNCF. In Germany reservations are not compulsory, and passengers are expected to know that they can just take another train without needing to exchange tickets if their planned connection is cancelled. France works different.

@WengenK, that's quite a lot of great info, thanks.

Now that you mention Karlsruhe, interestingly I see the ICE train (9571) from the cancelled ticket is still running on the day of my booking. But now it only runs till Karlsruhe and not Stuttgart (as it was supposed to), this is probably the reason behind the cancellation.

I was wondering if I could still take this train to Karlsruhe and then take the next train from Karlsruhe to Mannheim which would allow me to board the final train to Salzburg. Although for this I am not sure if my mandatory reserved seats (Paris to Stuttgart) from the cancelled booking will still be vacant or if it would be assigned to others?
I guess it still comes down to either an update from DB or SNCF, but at least I know there are a few options available. Thanks again.

Hi,

On taking the train getting out of Paris taking a different direction, as you mention above, with the destination in Germany: Aside from the Metz option, I would suggest Paris to Freiburg, then you transfer to Karlsruhe, which a station easy to navigate. I was there this summer, a rather pleasant surprise as to what the Hbf offers and close by, (certainly, a future base for nearby towns, eg, Rastatt).

Bottom line, you want to avoid Mannheim and Frankfurt re: transfers and the chances of a train cancellation and, above all, you want to avoid Stuttgart.

I managed to get a seat on one of the 2 night trains Stuttgart to Vienna, my 1st choice , the EN train was , as the DB guy said to me, "complet ausgebucht" (fully booked up) ie, every seat. I noticed he stressed this situation by using the French word, and I thought night trains don't sell out, Luckily, the 2nd night train dep a DB InterCity still had seating in the general seating area.

@Fred, I think you are mudding the waters here. The OP is traveling with "elderly family members" They want to get to Salzburg at a decent hour. Sounds like he has a plan. The preferred route he mentioned has a 44 minute change time at Mannheim, and it is a cross-platform connection. There are plenty of services at Mannheim Hbf to get snacks for the connecting train.

not at all. Let's hope the 44 mins layover time turns out to be exactly that and not reduced by any sort of delay. The OP does have other options which he is willing to consider.

ICE 9571 is indeed running, but only till Karlsruhe. So just take that train as planned. That it does not turn up any more when you plan Paris to Salzburg is because it is no longer part of the fastest solution on that route. It gets hidden by TGV 9561

Look at www.bahn.de to find out how to continue from Karlsruhe to Salzburg.
One interesting option is taking the 10:31 IRE to Vaihingen and board the EC 115 there. The change in Vaihingen is same platform, so that would be all rather straightforward. You could go to the ticket office in Karlsruhe during your layover to get reservations for that train. (You should get those for free, as you original got cancelled). Only for the half hour on the IRE you would not be able to get reservations as that is a local commuter train.

Received a response from DB.

"
Please notice :

Because you have booked an international connection and the seat reservations from Paris to Stuttgart can only be changed at a DB customer service at german train stations, and to avoid further misunderstandings or even fines, we kindly ask you to book new tickets from Paris Est to Salzburg and after your trip send us as an attachment your newly purchased ticket, so we are enable to refund you that newly bought ticket.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
"
So I have to book entirely new tickets now. Anybody have experience with getting a refund from DB please, especially as a foreigner?
I am located in India so it is a concern spending double the amount and what if there is a problem with the refund.

As Wengen K pointed out, your original train (ICE 9571) with your reservations is still operating, so just board it. The train now stops at Karlsruhe, short of Stuttgart. Now you will be in Germany and can freely use your existing ticket to continue to Salzburg. You arrive at Karlsruhe at 9:26.

Wengen K also suggested to take the IRE train from Karlsruhe to Vaihingen departing at 10:31, arriving at Vaihingen at 11:07, then taking the EC 115, departing at 11:37, arriving at Salzburg at 15:59.

@Sam, So is it okay to ignore the DB mail "we kindly ask you to book new tickets from Paris Est to Salzburg"

Also, about the route suggested by WengenK, I think it's a great option but I am still unsure if the seats originally reserved for me on ICE 9571 (Paris to Stuttgart) will still be valid - now that the ticket is cancelled. I think this is something I can only confirm at the train station in Paris, isn't it?

I would try to confirm by email with DB that they did not cancel your tickets from Paris on the original train, simply because they dropped the final destination of that leg.

Your ticket is not cancelled. The (partial) cancellation of a train does not invalidate your ticket. Railways actually can't cancel your ticket.

So you still have a ticket. And you still have a reservation at least as far as Karlsruhe. So just take that.

I just "zoomed" with two DB people. They agree that your reservation is not deleted because of the shortening of the route of the train. So take your original ICE 9571 and look for another train in Karsruhe, as recommended by WengenK.

(The email you got from DB is soewhat misleading in your particular case, because it only takes into account conditions within Germany, where you could simply change trains, and not connections from Paris, where the suggestion of an alternative train implies that you need a new reservation.)

Thank you @Sam, @WengenK and @sla.

I again tried to reach out to DB asking if I could use the existing ticket to either got to Karlsruhe or take another train out of Paris.
And here is their response..

"Alternatively, you can go to a Deutsche Bahn or SNCF travel center and request a rebooking instead of booking a new ticket."

Again, not very clear from them if I can use the same ticket.
But at this moment based on your suggestions I am going to either use the same ticket or if possible check at SNCF travel center when I land in Paris.

Deutsche Bahn is very good at confusing people that are not used to train travel...

At this point, I would trust the advice of Wengen K and sla019 as they are in Europe and have lot of train experience. Go with your original tickets you can change to Salzburg on the IRE and EC 115 as described by Wengen K.

Yes @Sam, I do plan on following the same advise, thank you.

Just an update.. DB's response to my query.

Query:
Can we still use our existing ticket and seat reservations to travel from Paris Est to Karlsruhe Hbf by ICE 9571?+
I just want to make sure our existing ticket and seat reservations are not cancelled.

Response:
"Yes, you can use your ticket in other trains of DeutscheBahn now.
We regret the train IntercityExpress (ICE) 9571 isn't any longer in our timetable."

Their response suggests they are not prepared to make any comment on the ICE connection out of Paris.

Hi,

Going to Paris is another story. My ticket for 28. Aug Mannheim to Paris Est was cancelled around 20:20. The next morning I asked about my cancelled ticket, if being reimbursed re: the cancelled ticket (erstattungsfähig) was possible, etc.

Bottom line, I applied my ticket for the next departure Frankfurt to Paris Est....no problems at all.

"Their response suggests they are not prepared to make any comment on the ICE connection out of Paris."

Since the train is operated by SNCF there's not much they can do. Except, perhaps, avoiding sending computer generated tons of nonsense mail

@Fred: Your ticket wasn't cancelled. I will repeat this: Railways cannot cancel your ticket at their own discretion. The only reason for a railway to cancel a ticket would be if they found out you had obtained it fraudulently.

A ticket is a proof you have paid. It is a receipt of sorts (when I submit my business expenses I just submit copies of my tickets, as they are valid receipts). For some trains you also need a reservation. When you book those you get a "ticket + reservation" and for a long time this was actually literally printed on the ticket. When the train you reserved a seat on is cancelled your reservation becomes worthless (and should be refunded if you paid for it separately) but your ticket remains valid.

@ Wengen....I should have said that more exactly, ie my train connection was cancelled. , Mannheim to Paris . Yes, the ticket for that cancelled departure was still valid, which I used,/ applied the following morning's departure. Thanks for the clarification.

Hey All,

An update, I should have done this much earlier.

So it went exactly as WengenK suggested. I was able to board the same train with existing booking, only had to alight the train at Karlsruhe Hbf and then board the train to Munchen, and then Mannheim and finally to Salzburg.
No issues with the tickets or the booking (must mention there were no ticket checks during the travel anyways).

However it wasn't all merry thanks to the delay of over 120 minutes on the German trains which caused a lot of trouble and anxiety as it almost derailed our plans for the evening. This appears to be quite common with German trains at the moment.
Notwithstanding this it all ended well.

Thanks all for the quick and efficient support. Cheers! :)

Sounds good. Yes, there have been a lot of complaints about German trains running late. Glad it worked out.