Car or Train

Any help or insight that you may provide would be appreciated.

OK. To start with, ViaMichelin calculates the cost of gas and tolls for your trip (Frankfurt-Heidelberg-Strasbourg-Zurich-Rothenburg-Nürnberg) for a compact car to be 143 euro - that's just gas and tolls, not including car rental. The best car rental rates I found from AutoEurpe for Frankfurt to Nürnberg was about 235 euro. That's over 380 euro. How did you figure your rate?

For instance, purchasing rail ticket in advance from the Bahn, you can get Zürich to Rothenburg for 2 for about 80 euro and Kehl, Germany, just across the river from Strasbourg to Zürich for 39 euro for 2. Rothenburg to Nürnberg Hbf would cost 18,70 euro. How did you figure rail prices? RailEurope? Rick's charts?

I don't know where you got your prices, but I have always found (10 trips) I could travel by rail for less than by car.

As Lee says, if you buy your train tickets in advance there is no way that renting and driving a car would be cheaper for 2 persons. And you did not count parking, event. fines then add a discomfort of small car, manual stick (automatic cost significantly more), potentially treacherous winter driving. For your destinations train wins easily. For planning your train trips and buying tickets go to Deutsche Bahn website. You get there very easy from this page. Click on Travel Tips upper left on this site. Then click on Train & Rail Passes and then How to Look Up Train Schedules and Routes on Line. Then click on Deutsche Bahn website and start choosing trains.

Check on www.bahn.de/p_en/view/index.shtml. Frankfurt/Main to Nürnberg. 30th November. Savings fare EUR 29. Hourly connection. Payment by credit card. Pdf for printing at home. Likewise for other connections.

My train fare calculation comes to 314 EUR, considering advance purchase Sparpreis, TGV Leisure, and VGN tickets, except first day is full fare considering uncertain flight arrival time.

Also, have you included 40 CHF Swiss vignette in you automobile calculations?

My only other question is the inclusion of Zurich. If this is a shopping trip, everything in Switzerland will be about 40% to 50% more there. So if it is just to tick a box (been to Switzerland), I'd pick another spot. Somewhere in the Black Forest maybe?

"Land in Frankfurt...Heidelberg for first nights stop... Strasbourg for 2nd nights stop... Zurich for 3rd nights stop... Rothenburg od T for the 4th nights stop.. Nuremberg for the 5th nights stop... drop the car in Nuremberg... We have calculated the cost of the train trip from Frankfurt to Nuremberg as 359 Euro and the car as 219 Euro including gas & tolls."

Your cost concerns could be minimized with a more modest itinerary that drops Zurich (and perhaps Strasbourg as well) and provides more feet-on-the-ground time. I don't grasp the point of long drives during daytime hours at a time of year when daylight is so short and could be spent seeing the sights in the cities you visit.

I've visited some very nice Christmas markets near FRA - these markets and the attractive towns they are in would help you avoid the long drives or train rides.

MAINZ - a 20-minute train ride from FRA, (less than E5.00)
RUEDESHEIM - 50 minutes from Mainz
SPEYER - 60 minutes from Mainz, near Heidelberg

BAMBERG - a city near Nuremberg, has a medieval old-town center with UNESCO World Heritage status:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_3dR4G2ZZq4/TaCxGUCbYiI/AAAAAAAABmQ/hYSAvuqE2iA/s1600/Bamberg.jpg

All, we did check the Bahn website along with the other countries train scheduling websites that we would be going to for train fare. We also checked ViaMichelin for the costs including the road tax in Switzerland.
@Lee, we found a good rental rate on Enterprise. The concern we have is the travel time that is not discussed by people when it comes to trains. Such as the time it takes to get from the point of sleep to the train station. We are very interested in taking the train this trip but we are looking at the overall cost and ease of use. What could I possibly be looking at the wrong way? I know I can schedule a DB train from Frankfurt - Heidelberg - Strasbourg. Take the French train from Strasbourg to Zurich and the DB from Zurich to Rothenburg odT. From there to Nuremberg should be easy enough. The slog of Nuremburg to Prague by bus will be interesting.

@llja our calculations showed it to be cheaper and about on par with the train cost factoring in parking.

@tonfromleiden thank you. we weren't sure about printing at home.

@Sam Zurich may be let go. Still trying to decide

@Russ we shall check these out. Thank you.

Since you're serious about checking those options I mentioned, here are some links to those Christmas markets;

Rüdesheim: http://www.weihnachtsmarkt-der-nationen.de/en/market/
Mainz: Scroll down this page (in German) to about the middle and look for the photo gallery (Bildergalerie) with 15 photos of Mainz - click on "15 Bilder."
Speyer and Mainz Christmas markets: http://www.en.romantic-cities.com/Christmas-Markets.6035.0.html

I see the following rail fares:
- FRA to Heidelberg, 40,40€ regional fare. You don't want to use a Savings Fare on arrival at FRA because of the possibility of a late flght. (Incidently, full fare using an ICE and S-Bahn is only 50€ for 2 and slightly faster than driving.)

• Heidelberg to Strasbourg, 36,20€. 28€ for a Baden-Württemburg-Ticket to Kehl, 8,20 local fare for two from Kehl to Strasbourg Gare.

• Strasbourg to Zürich, 46,20€, 8,20 local to Kehl, 38€ German Rail Savings Fare (via Germany) from Kehl to Zürich.

• Zurich to Rothenburg, 66€, 38€ Saving Fare to Munich (EC), 28€ Bayern-Ticket to Rothenburg.

• Rothenburg to Nürnberg, 18,70 for a VGN Tages-Ticket Plus.

Total, 188,80€.

Again, gas and tolls from ViaMichelin was 143€. Did you really find a car from Enterprise for 46€. The best price I could find from Enterprise was 236€.

The concern we have is the travel time that is not discussed by people

Your initial post implied that you were thinking of a car because of the cost.

We have calculated the cost of the train trip from Frankfurt to
Nuremberg as 359 Euro and the car as 219 Euro including gas & tolls

Strasbourg to Zürich, 46,20€, 8,20 local to Kehl, 38€ German Rail Savings Fare (via Germany) from Kehl to Zürich.
Zurich to Rothenburg, 66€, 38€ Saving Fare to Lindau, 28€ Bayern-Ticket to Rothenburg.

That arduous and (relatively) expensive trip to the very expensive city of Zurich and back north again to Rothenburg should be reconsidered. In place of that route, a Strasbourg-Rothenburg journey for two by regional train would be E8.20 to Kehl + E44 to R'burg (Happy Weekend day pass on Sat or Sun) or E8.20 + E52 (Quer durchs Land day pass on a weekday.) Using Lee's figures above, that reduces your total travel costs by perhaps E60 to around E130 total for two.

Agreed. The extra time they'll spend going to/from Zürich vs. going directly to Rothenburg will be almost as much as they will spend seeing Zürich. But the whole trip is mostly one night stands, with lots of time getting in and out of accommodations and not much time seeing what's there.

I don't think price should necessarily be the deciding factor. If you'll be shopping, it's easier to haul things in the car, at least until the point where you drop the car and have to organize that stuff. Sometimes a car ride is faster and more direct, if the train route requires a few connections on slower trains. But cutting the number and distance of the destinations, as already suggested, helps reduce travel time and cost by either car or train.

Shopping at Christmas markets... John didn't mention shopping, but heh heh, yes, I suppose people do this! For me it's more about sights and sounds, tastes and aromas. And Glühwein. Now, I have brought home a Glühwein mug-let and a couple of nice bees-wax candles from Christmas markets, I suppose. But packing as I do (ala Rick Steves) I think I'd prefer to ship home anything I couldn't squish into my pack. I did that once with a cuckoo clock for one of my mother's friends... sure wasn't going to pack THAT. I've never considered renting a car to bring stuff home. If it's that much or that big, then I'd just as soon ship it as bother with picking up and dropping off a car.

About that Glühwein at Christmas markets... anyone who has a couple of those needs to remember the low blood alcohol limits in Germany - and remember after visiting a market not to drive back to your hotel or to another market. Not that it's easy to remember anything after a few of those lovely hot adult beverages - which is why Christmas markets and trains are natural go-togethers, IMO.

Funny - I just read a post from someone who did not pay much heed to Germany's DUI laws at this page.

I am always more comfortable in a car. Going by train you also have to make sure your hotel is within walking distance to the train station or add the cost of a taxi. Doing one city per day doesn't allow you time to sit at a bus stop, train station, etc. Throw the luggage in the trunk and get moving.

"Going by train you also have to make sure your hotel is within walking distance to the train station or add the cost of a taxi."

I usually do book near the main station where I travel, but it's not right to assume you'll need a taxi if you choose to book further out - Germany's cities are blessed with very efficient public transportation. In a place like Munich or Nuremberg, there's are S-Bahn stations, subway stations, streetcars and buses that all feed the main station. But even rural towns without stations normally have some sort of bus service that feeds the nearest station.

And if you are traveling on a day pass, say from Munich to Salzburg, like many do, the trip to Munich's main station costs you nothing. The Bayern Ticket day pass (€28/2 adults) covers Munich-Salzburg (and back if you wish) AND all the inner-city transportation in Munich that you need.

The only trick to using inner-city transport is figuring out how to use it from your hotel. But most hotel websites provide this information for their customers online so that you know before booking that you won't be stranded - and they will normally give you tips for buying your ticket, etc. And of course this forum helps people with such matters all the time. The info is available online. Clearly, getting in your car and driving wherever bypasses the learning/research you might need to do. I consider that learning to be part of the learning I do about any hotel - when checking its proximity to local places of interest, I factor in the nearest subway or tram stop too.

I've been traveling in Germany for 4 decades and never once have I used a taxi.

"Doing one city per day doesn't allow you time to sit at a bus stop, train station, etc."

I'm not sure what you mean here exactly. If I'm visiting Christmas markets, I might visit 2 or occasionally 3 cities in a day. I don't usually sit and wait much unless I want to; when I take the train, I have already looked up the schedule and any changes of train. Surprises are pretty rare.

"Surprises are pretty rare."

Thankfully you have it down pat. The OP asked the question because he obviously doesn't. I understand that Germany has a great transit system, but they also make wonderful automobiles. I prefer to drive. I used trains exclusively on my last trip to Munich, Prague, and Berlin. I missed having a car.

"Thankfully you have it down pat."

Hi, Rob. When I said "surprises are pretty rare," I simply meant that train schedule information is easy to get, and that the average train trip goes pretty much according to schedule - no matter whether the train traveler is a novice or a train veteran.

I obviously think trains are a good choice - but I do not question your personal preference for or comfort with the car - and I don't think I did in my last post either. Trains are obviously not the only way to get around, and your choice is your choice. I think anyone who wants a car or misses a car when they use the trains should rent the next time.

That said, North Americans - many of whom search this travel forum as they decide how they will travel - tend to be under-informed about transportation options in Germany. I wouldn't want those readers to see your comments about taxis and wasted time without seeing someone else's on those same topics as well. That's why I wrote my last post. Your words reflect your experience, apparently - but as Germans will tell you, taxis simply are not a requirement for reaching the train station from a hotel location under normal circumstances. Rare ones, perhaps.

Going by car from city to city is not worth the hassle and stress. I only find it more convenient in time saving if you know what you're doing in going by car, if it's needed to get to the villages or sights out in the country far removed from public transportation, places that only locals go to, such as restaurants, open beer halls, etc. where the only tourists you'll see, if at all, are German when looking at the different city codes on their license plates in the parking lot. I don't want to pay for gas by the liter, run the risk of getting parking tickets esp parking in residential areas, finding a place to park, and so on. Working the train system and taking the train from place to place is easy.

Update. We had a great trip going to see the different Christmas markets. The weather was perfect and taking the train for the first time was without issue. I have not calculated the cost yet but as we went along I was starting to think it was higher than a car. Our final itinerary was:
1 night in Heidelberg ( our third time there)
1 night in Strasbourg France. Their Christmas market is a must see.
We dropped Zurich
1 night in Rothenberg (our 4th time there)
1 night in Nurnberg
2 nights in Prague
2 nights in Vienna
2 nights in Budapest.
We did not feel rushed or that we were missing anything. Others may travel differently so may think differently. We stayed in a youth hostel for the first time (in Rothenberg). We were surprised how many families were there. Our hotels were within walking distance of the train stations or a short tram ride away. Thanks to Lee, Andreas, and others I was more confident with the trains. We would buy our tickets for the next stop or 2 in advance. The bus from Nurnberg to Prague on a Monday was fine and not crowded. I do not think I will ever drive in Prague given the traffic I saw there. So thank you all once again for your input and guidance.

Yes, most definitely on families staying in HI youth hostels. I've been in a number of HI hostels in Germany where German families with kids stay at the hostel and eat breakfast and dinner there. I saw them since I was having dinner too. No big deal for them.

Glad you had a good trip, John.

"We stayed in a youth hostel for the first time (in Rothenberg). We were surprised how many families were there."

DJH (German Youth Hostel Association) has had to reinvent itself over the decades as the population of single, nomadic hikers and government funding waned. They targeted school groups and other organized groups, and families. They remodeled so that most rooms have a private bath and 3-6 bunks. They now offer activities over holidays (nature walks, Easter egg hunts, etc.) and of course there are common areas indoors and out where kids can make new friends. It seems the hostels have largely succeeded with their new clients - families are a huge part of their business now, with fewer and fewer of the backpacking wanderers of the past. But it's not dirt cheap like before. 2 nights for a family of four with breakfast will run around €200 in a hostel like Rothenburg's.

In winter however, when business drops off and travel is less popular, there can be incredible bargains in some places. The Rheinland-Pfalz area hostels lure families with 2-night stays w/ breakfast - and dinner on the evening of arrival - to families up to 6 members large at a total cost of between €39 and €81, depending on the hostel category. Must be booked online.

https://www.diejugendherbergen.de/cms/upload/familien/ovp_1.gif

Site in German: https://www.diejugendherbergen.de/familienurlaub/guenstige-angebote/

Where I have seen families at DJH hostels recently, ie 21 st century, were Dresden (the most numerous and with the best food), Berlin ( on Kluckstraße), Weimar, and Munich.

To those who talk about the costs of taxis to the train station - I've never felt that a taxi was over budget. It's always been minimal. And there's also Uber these days.

THere's no way having a rental car in a city is more relaxing than taking the train.

The good thing about Uber is that it's banned in Germany. The Constitutional Court ruled against it. The public transportation option or the taxi are the choices. I have used the taxi option only once in Germany (when I was under the weather), otherwise never resorted to it.