Hello. My mother wanted her ashes scattered in a remote lake in Germany, however it looks difficult to bring ashes into Germany. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to do this? I am open to traveling in to another country and/or bringing only a token amount of the ashes with me. Thank you!
Vivian
"it looks difficult to bring ashes into Germany"
Difficult is one thing, illegal is something else. The legality of scattering ashes in Germany differs from one German State to another, so that's the first thing you have to determine. If it is illegal where you want to scatter the ashes nobody here is allowed to give you advice on how to circumvent those laws.
My understanding is the scattering of human ashes in nature is not legal in Germany.
Suggest you contact the German Embassy or Consulate. They are much better equipped to answer your query than this forum.
Doing what you want to do may be impossible/illegal , or a bureaucratic nightmare, or fairly simply.
You need to ask the German government to find out .
Hey Viv
Thanks for posting this question. My ninety-two year old father-in-law, a first generation American (his parents arrived from Sweden in 1920) has expressed a desire to have some of his ashes spread on the grounds of the family farm which is still owned by his Swedish relatives not far from Morrum.
Owing to pre-necro-respect, it's probably best to do research on this issue prior to his demise. It would seem a good bit of coordination would be required, including regulations with TSA, airlines, customs and local ordinances. Needless to say, his Swedish family members have given his request their blessing.
I'll keep my eye on replies.
You have a multi-part problem. First is transport. Cremains are nothing new to the airlines and are allowed, but for multiple reasons, I would go directly to the airline and get the standard procedure. (You probably do not want TSA opening an urn to investigate, nor do you want to randomly check them in a bag)
Second, as others have said, is Germany. I doubt just bringing them in is an issue, for that you could contact the nearest German Consulate, but scattering them sounds to be an issue. For that, the local or state government would be the place to go.
As for your last thoughts, I can't encourage you, but it would not be dangerous to the environment and legality varies across Europe. Somewhat related, while it hopefully will not occur for some time, my wife and I have discussed the "survivor" or maybe family doing much the same for us, taking one last trip so to speak.
As stated above, it's illegal, and in some German states more so than in others. But many people would like their urn to be kept at home rather than in the cemetery. So they have devised ways to circumvent the regulations. Here in Bavaria it is quite common to bring the dead across the border to a crematorium into Austria and ask it's operator to send the ash directly back to the heirs. If a corpse is out of the country, it is no longer a case for the Bavarian authorities (as long as it does not come back unburnt, of course), and the re-import of the ashes are beyond their responsability.
So, I'd suggest, bring the ashes of your mother, but not in a metal urn (the border inspectors might think you are smuggling in a bomb) but in one that is biodegradable. And then do what the piety toward your mother commits you to.
My mother wanted her ashes scattered in a remote lake in Germany,
however it looks difficult to bring ashes into Germany. Does anyone
have any suggestions for how to do this? I am open to traveling in to
another country and/or bringing only a token amount of the ashes with
me.
This is a legal question to be directed to an attorney. Contact an attorney whose specialization matches your need. This is a travel website; not a lawyers' forum. Good luck!
Sorry for your loss.
Bonus points for trying to meet your mother's wishes.
I don't see a need for an attorney, I believe that the question has been well answered above.
Which Land is the lake in that you want to go to?
To speak openly, I don't really see how you should be able to do this except by stealth.
And you should be aware that you may be subject to fines or even to having your mom's ashes retrieved and legally buried at your expense (not sure how they would do that with ashes scattered in a lake, but be aware of the risk).
There are two legal issues to be considered here. For one thing, it's the previously mentioned "Friedhofszwang" which means that ashes may only be buried in designated places like cemeteries or special burial forests. This law has not been renounced even by Bremen; they have only designated some additional areas.
There is another law which requires a coffin or an urn for burial. Even in a burial at sea the ashes are not simply scattered, they remain in an urn. Now the state of Bremen has in fact slackened this law and allows scattering of the ashes, but only in those designated areas. I do not assume that the lake you are considering happens to be located in those designated areas within the state of Bremen (there aren't a whole lot of lakes in Bremen to begin with, and nothing at all is "remote" in Bremen).
There has been a lot of discussion on these laws, and I don't really want to enter into all the details. Just to make a small case that these laws are not pure chicanery: Basically, the intent of these laws is to protect the dignity of the deceased. Grandmother's urn on the mantlepiece can so easily get into the way at some point and end up in a very impious spot in the garbage can. Or just consider how many families are terribly at war after daddy's death. So then, who gets to keep the urn while everybody is fighting over the inheritance? And why should the other children not even have the right to a place for their grief and memories?
If you want more advice, I wouldn't look for an attorney, I would look for a reputable funeral home. They have all the experience and can tell you what is possible and what is not.
And if I may add just one more thought: Honoring your mom's wishes certainly is an honorable thing in itself. However, you may also want to consider this: Was your mom aware of the difficulties involved? Would she have wanted you to take illegal steps in order to fulfill her wishes?
Thank you all for your helpful replies. It is difficult because of course I wish to do what my mother wanted which was to be placed in a small lake outside Berlin where she spent some of her relatively few happy summers. I appreciate all who took the time to respond to me. Thank you!
Whew… "a small lake outside Berlin"? That's not exactly what I would call "remote".
Any lake near Berlin usually is a favorite recreation spot for many big city dwellers and about as un-remote as it gets. Chances are that someone might actually feel offended by a person scattering ashes into the lake their children like to swim in. Some lakes might also function as drinking water reservoirs, in which case you might really get into trouble.
A completely different thought: Would a "legal" burial be something you might consider? Possibly there is a nice peaceful village cemetery close by that lake - ?
I know that's not what your mom was thinking of, but it might at least be an option to consider.
We want to take a very small amount (pillbox) of our daughter in law's father's ashes to Germany. I was just going to place some in dirt around a tree in a park or similar location. Thoughts? I know several posts have indicated that spreading/burying ashes in not legal but wonder if it would be o.k. since I'm thinking only a tablespoon or so.
Where would you draw the line? Like a tablespoonful is o.k. but a cupful is not?
The legal situation is quite clear and has been explained, and I really don't see why different laws would be in action for different amounts of ashes. So who are you asking to o.k. this for you?
The legal side is one thing of course, the practical side is another. Most likely nobody will notice if you place something that small under a tree (but who knows).
You may want to reconsider though if that's really what you want to do. There are reasons why human remains have to be buried at a certain depth. Placing something like that "in some dirt under a tree" is like asking the next dog that comes along to dig it up or pee on it. Sorry to be so blunt about that, but that doesn't sound like a terribly pious place for anyone's ashes to me.
A friend of my daughter's scatters a vial of his mother's ashes in any place he finds fit. I find it a lovely sentiment. Find a nice cherry tree in a beautiful setting, a vial or tablespoon of ashes is not toxic to anything. Not even Al Gore would complain about it - well, he might.
That's what I used to believe too, but I recently heard a report about studies that seem to indicate that it may be more harmful than supposed. Can't find those studies right now, but there was more to it than just the mercury from the dental fillings. Though of course this was not about small doses like a tablespoonful.
BTW, I found this interesting article about scattering ashes in the U.S.. It's not like anything goes.
And the Brits seem to be having some real problems with scattering in inappropriate places.
Mmmm. I may have to think on plan B for my embers. Do you have a big garden in a nice setting Anna?
We do in fact have a big garden in an absolutely beautiful setting nearby. It's called cemetery. ;-)
Ha, touché.
:-)
While I of course said this on a joking level, it is actually perfectly true. Many cemeteries I know are absolutely beautiful and basically fulfill all wishes of anyone who ever looked for a place to put someone's ashes. A lovely park-like setting, beautiful old trees, a sea of flowers, peace and quiet, sometimes a beautiful stone wall for protection against traffic noise and wandering dogs... what more can you wish for?
There is one downside, and that is: It's not cheap. But then, keeping up a place like that does have its price. And when I hear that people travel all over the world to deposit their beloved one's ashes in some special place, I guess expenses aren't an issue anyway.
Are you aware that a performance of the Metropolitan Opera in NYC was evacuated and cancelled when human ashes were placed in the (concrete) orchestra pit last year? I am sorry to be the one to tell you that "It's NOT 'All About You (and your family.)'" This is a crowded globe we all live on.
Thanks, Tim. Did you see the two articles I linked to above? They are along the same lines, so this is not just about the cliché of overregulated Germany here.
Yeah, ashes are difficult. We have my wife's mom and dad in the closet, and my dad in the garage. At some point, in the next 10 years, we will have my mom. None have expressed any wish for a specific location. So, we will probably plant some trees in our back yard, and use the ashes to create a fertile zone. We do have a cemetary plot that no one is using, and we might also look into using that. But carrying them somewhere else? I'm not sure that's a good idea. After all, a lot of people live in Germany. In many parts of the US, nobody lives. I live in South Dakota, and I can show you places where you can drive for many many miles without seeing a house or any human building.
"Many cemeteries I know are absolutely beautiful"
Yes, I have been drawn to many in Germany, though none of them have been able to entice me permanently as of yet. My absolute favourite is the tiny beauty of St. George's in Ruhpolding.
I could never hold a grudge against Anna. My sister is an Anna, named after my dearly departed Welsh grandmother.
Perhaps bring a matchbox worth of the ashes, and get a small candle and take a moment to sit by the lake, light the candle, and meditate on her life. Maybe quietly play one of her favorite songs. That's what I'd do.
It is not difficult to bring ashes into Germany - quite straight forward transporting ashes in an urn as hand luggage. The difficulties start in Germany.
Two hurdles:
* You have to transport the ashes. Legislation in Germany varies from federal state to federal state. But many states, among others Hesse and Brandenburg (Hesse, Airport Frankfurt will be likely your point of entry/Brandenburg is likely the place of that lake around Berlin) do not allow the transport for human remains by relatives. It has to be a mortician. Hesse requires transport of ashes in an (state of Hesse-)officially sealed urn.
Means in practice: You have to hand over the urn at the point of entry to a mortician to have him transporting the urn to a legal point of burial together with the transport papers, which include a takeover declaration by the burial place. If the customs detect your urn they will do that for you. And you are in deep trouble, standing there without graveyard.
