Berlin vs Black Forest

Cathy this is easy - edgy fully urban capitol city with all the included stuff - major museums, eclectic cuisine, great shopping, vibrant city energy, endless entertainment options, all type of people - all the major world capital stuff.

Or traditional rural and semi-rural places and culture, charming towns, traditional German foods, hiking, ski lift ride, lake swim, folk museums, cow bells etc.

No one can tell you which is better than the other for you, both good but like night and day purely preference.

My spanner though: if Black Forest is the choice, and if you've never been to the Alps, I'd go to the Alps. IMO Alps are tops for Germanic mountain experience, and extraordinarily focused towards making families happy. Bertchesgaden and Salzkammergut deservedly popular, Tannheimtal (just barely in Austria near Fussen) a wonderful place with all the good Alps stuff and fewer people.

Without knowing your preferences, wanna-does and planned travel date, how shall we give any advice?

And Hank: from your list "Or traditional rural and semi-rural places and culture, charming towns, traditional German foods, hiking, ski lift ride, lake swim, folk museums, cow bells etc." I can put checkmarks on minimum 5 of that in and around Berlin; of course without mountain areas.

If you want to have rural and capital experience do Harz mountains or Saxon Switzerland instead of Black Forest; and after that travel to Berlin within a few hours.

Good to know for first time tourists: culture, food and traditions are very depending on the region in Germany where you are. For example Hamburg is imo culturally much closer to Copenhagen (Denmark) than to Munich (Germany). Best example for tourists: Oktoberfest is a Munich thing, may be Bavarian but not all-over German tradition.

Mark is correct! I'm not trying to imply that there is a monolithic German culture divided in urban and traditional, just generalizing a broad decision-tree point of divergence.

If you don't want "one or the other" you can stay outside Berlin an hour or two, vice versa. Penalty there is adding transit time to an already fairly short visit, but it is a possibility.

Will stand though on my opinion that if you want a Germanic mountain experience, Alps are alone at the top. Not that there is anything at all wrong with the other mountain areas in Germany.

To some degree, your choice also depends on your OTHER destination choices.

Are Phantasialand and Switzerland still solids? If so, then the Black Forest gets extra points on the basis of logistics - it's an easy stop on the route between these two - and Berlin becomes a time- and cash-consuming detour.

The Black Forest has an additional card to play as well... the KONUS Card, which provides free train and bus transport - and other benefits - around this very large region throughout your stay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkgzMXQ7blQ
https://prospektbestellung.toubiz.de/media/prospekt/file/5736289_KONUS_GB_2022.pdf

We have decided to skip Phantasialand but are still going to Switzerland where we will get the rural experience w/alps, hiking, cowbells, etc. So seems like Berlin would be a good counterbalance to this. If we fly into Berlin, we are thinking we'd stay there 3 or 4 nights, then take a train to Munich where we would stay 2 or 3 nights, then rent a car & drive to Switzerland for 4 or 5 nights, then fly home from Zurich.

That sounds like a great plan.

Have you checked on rental car prices with pick up in Munich and drop off in Switzerland? There is likely to be a hefty fee for dropping the car in a different country. Do you want the car primarily for Germany or for Switzerland? You may want to consider getting the car in Munich and dropping it before you leave Germany (taking the train onward to Switzerland) or taking the train from Munich into Switzerland, then getting the car.

Great advice on the rental car!
Thank you!

They are at opposite ends of the country. What else do you plan to do in Germany or Europe?

Also, with five adults, you would need to rent a large vehicle to hold the luggage for fiver persons.

The Black Forest is convenient if visiting the Rhineland, W. Switzerland or E. France.

RE: Oktoberfest as the tourist thing. Until this year I had not set foot in the Hofbräuhaus since 1992, not during Oktoberfest but in August. Then, a German woman I knew from Westfalen, was living in Munich. I wanted to see the Hofbräuhaus since it had been literally years I had been there, ie, the late 1970s daytime for lunch.

She refused to take me there at night, said the place at night was filled with Americans and Japanese making a spectacle of themselves, and told her boy-friend , also German, but not from Bayern , to take me instead. Both of us went .

This time my intentions was to have lunch there but only walked through it and enjoyed a better lunch paying more decent price at Viktualienmarkt, that beer garden establishment.

I have been to Berlin and the Black Forest and loved each.

Obviously, there are a dozens of variables at play, but I would go with Berlin if I had to choose one of those on the spot.

The reason is -- gasp! -- partly political. Americans (if you're one of us) are pretty regularly exposed to anti-urban sentiment. I'm not going to get into a partisan debate but will say some reasons are valid while others are not.

European cities show Americans the way. They are pleasant, well-organized and great places to live. Sure, the same urban ills that bedevil American cities are in Europe, too, but the problems are substantially less.

Berlin stands out is one the best organized cities with populations exceeding 3 million I have been to. I would say the same about Madrid, Rome and London; in Asia, Tokyo is also superb. I could rattle off a dozen more European cities with populations less than 3 million people that are wonderful. The museums, eateries and transit in Berlin are wunderbar. The nightlife is intoxicating.

Having said all that, the Black Forest is definitely worth a stop. If you have too many cities on your itinerary, it might be good to opt for the Black Forest instead.

"Berlin stands out as one of the best organized cities...." How true. Berlin and Paris are my 2 top favourite cities in the world.

If you are renting a car just to get to Switzerland, why not just take the direct train from Munich to Zurich. If you want a car, rent it there, as it will come with a Swiss vignette already attached. And as stated before, you will need a big SUV to handle 5 people and their luggage. Switzerland is one place you could do without a car as the rail network is so dense and trains so frequent, but Swiss trains are expensive.

Just as info: there are also night trains from Berlin to Zurich.

If you take a night train from Berlin to Zurich, how long does it take? What's the advantage of taking the night train?

Last info I have: start 20:51 (8:51 pm) in Berlin and 9:00 am in Zurich.
For actual duration and times please check the link in my post. The trains are well booked.

The huge advantage is that you travel while you sleep, so the time is used in the best possible way.

Another plus for some travelers might be the little adventure.

btw. The train stops also in Basel at 7:xx from which Europa-Park Rust is just 1:40 hrs away by train. Another idea could be to rent a Swiss rental car from Basel (with Germany allowance), head to Rust for a day and to return it in Zurich to avoid cross-border fee.

The advantage is you get to spend 12 hours in a cramped room that shakes and stops and starts every half hour, except for 4 1/2 hours in the middle of the night. You could get a comfortable hotel room in Berlin and fly for less money

That night train route between Berlin and Zurich is super doable, getting in at 9AM is just about right in if it's done in the summer, which is the only time I can see myself doing that route.

One advantage in taking the night train is that you can expect a direct shot arriving between 6 and 9AM. Would you prefer doing a long direct night route of 9-11 hours or the day route with calls for 2 or three transfers taking , say, 7 hours.? A matter of travel style, isn't it? Those departures having the arrival before 10 AM are the perfect night routes. provided it's direct.

You time it right , you can avoid having to change trains at 1 AM or 3 AM , or even midnight, etc, even though in taking night trains, I have seen numerous Germans do just that, boarding at 2 or 3AM. I've never had to do that as long as I could tailor the route, if possible, and the dep. time.

Just took a night train last week. Done probably
ten lifetime. Still not a fan. Cramped, uncomfortable. Not easy to sleep well, and it would happen right when you are getting fully adjusted to the time change. Could easily set back your transition. Not cheap either unless you sit up all night.

Agree with above that train Munich to Switzerland is an easy shot. Reasonable scenic too. Drop off fee Germany to Switzerland is likely several hundred Euros.

"Sitting up all night " in a compartment on the OeBB Night Jet is the absolute cheapest way to go.

This time I took the NJ from Hamburg to Vienna, as chance would have 5 of us were in that 6 seat compartment, all guys, (which is unusual , as there have been women, solo and in pairs, also in the compartment), all locals , Germans, my being the exception as the foreigner and visitor.

Admittedly, 5 can be a bit crowded, still the atmosphere was polite and friendly. With a Senior Eurail Global Pass bought with a 20% discount, that night ride amounted 27 Euro, if you don't included 5 Euro seat reservation. I slept fine but there have occasions given similar circumstances, sleeping was better. I had planned another such ride on Night Jet , Wien to Krakow, but lazied out going to Poland this time.