Been to Germany since the refugee crisis started?

I live in Frankfurt. There is no unrest. I doubt that Berlin is much different. The refugees here are welcomed, donations have poured in for them. They arrive by train to a dedicated track, and are then sent on to places to live. People donate not only clothing, but food, toys, and their time. You will probably never notice that the population of Germany has increased over the past few months. The refugees are not out laying around on the streets. Those are just regular German homeless beggars.

DW = Deutsche Welle = German international publicly-owned broadcaster.

No, she really did get attacked.

It was in all the news media I follow here..... did the story get lost or overwhelmed as it traveled the North Atlantic?

I really am surprised that it wasn't carried. Not even on NPR?

Not yet, but I'll be over there in early June, flying direct SFO to FRA, going to Berlin too a week after or so after arriving in Frankfurt. That 's plan one. When I was there in June 2015, I saw people in German train stations, (Halle an der Saale, Hannover Hbf, Berlin Hbf, Hamburg Hbf) whom I had never seen in past trips to Germany, or at least not so numerous and prevalent, as I did in June, definitely conspicuous, if you're alert and watchful.

I have a colleague doing a sabbatical in Germany who said this recently:

"Here in the western part of Germany there is tremendous support for Merkel and the refugees…virtually all the Germans I know
are volunteering to teach them, providing shelter, food, and resources. There is concern that the government is not moving quickly
enough to help with the overwhelming numbers. For example, an estimated 10,000 new teachers are needed for the schools to
take in the children. They are recalling retired teachers back, but those #’s are too small.
In the east, though, there are ragged camps preyed upon by angry right-wing Germans. Very tense."

I have recommended this website for news in Europe on a number of occasions.
http://www.thelocal.de/20151106/german-town-ingeniously-blocks-pegida-demo

Way to go Regensburg!

People in Frankfurt are volunteering their time to teach German to the new residents, as well as to give them tours, show them where to shop, and basically get them oriented to their new home.

Just returned from 31/2 weeks in Germany....the only thing we saw regarding refugees was a sign at the Schwabisch Hall train station that said " WELCOME REFUGEES "

The homicide rate in Germany was 0.8 per 100,00 people in 2011. The rate in the United States was 4.7 (2012), almost six times higher than Germany. If you are concerned about your safety, maybe spend less time in dangerous places.

I am worried more re: safety if I am in downtown Oakland once the sun sets. In Berlin hardly, but depends where.

So the newspapers are lying about the thousands of attacks against
migrants and Jews. That's good news. Thank you all. I am confused
about the "H" country. Right now the Croatians, Slovenians and
Austrians are constructing border fences and none of them begin with
an "H"?? I also did Google News for the past 30 days "Migrant Attacks"
and the only hits I got were in Sweeden and Germany.

Well, these are the only countries which basically take everyone, refugee or migrant. Imagine the USA would remove the border fence to Mexico and take ~8 mio illegal immigrants each year (!); mostly muslim, low-skilled and without a perspective. How would the American society react?
BTW: here is a nice article about Sweden, in case someone is interested how the moral superpower Germany will develop in the coming years:
Sweden’s ugly immigration problem

Slowly but surely we are learning about the other side of the coin. See the link provided by Martin.

I've also been reading some information about "the other side of the story" similar to that posted by Martin, but for the moment I'm taking a "wait and see" approach since I don't know if the people writing the stories have another agenda.

To answer your original question, I haven't been to Germany since the crisis started but I have been to Austria. While the refugees were very visible in some locations, there was no impact at all on visiting the usual tourist sites. Based on that, I wouldn't have any hesitation on going to Germany.

lordardry - you'll probably feel safer if you avoid hotels near the main train stations. That is especially true for Frankfurt. Frankfurt's red light district and druggies are near the station.

In late October, we traveled by train to Munich, Nurnberg and Vienna. We didn't see a single refugee, or at least we didn't see anyone who looked the refugees we had seen on tv.

I would be very, very surprised if the present US government or any US government decided to increase dramatically the number of migrant/refugees who would be taken in. We heard the number ten thousand (a mere handful compared to German figure) being thrown around at the beginning of the crisis, then 60,000 was mentioned with ten thousand as a basis for negotiation. Has anything come of that? Just talk? If any other number were suggested, say 100,000, relative to the US and compared to almost a million for Germany, and this is a big "if" one thing is absolutely certain which you can bet on: stiff opposition in Congress would be encountered to taking these migrants. No US politician, regardless of ideology, except in the very beginning has said anything further as migrants continue entering Europe. (unless I missed something) Bottom line...don't expect the US to help out.

Many people have said here that their traveling has not been negatively affected by the crisis, good to know. I would assume the same to be true of other nationalities' bus tour groups. It won't deter them either.

In response to Fred's post about US helping by taking in refugees, has it occurred that maybe the refugees don't want to emigrate to the US? Maybe they prefer Europe. Would it be fair to them to force them to come here (US & Canada) to ease the pressure on EU? Just a thought.

Fred,

As you may have heard, our new government has pledged to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of this year. I'm not sure how that's logistically possible, but I guess we'll see. As they'll be arriving in winter, that will probably be quite a shock compared to conditions in Syria.

has it occurred that maybe the refugees don't want to emigrate to the US?

It's a good question. There was a sad story from Minnesota a couple days ago about a Somali woman, a fourteen year state resident, who was attacked in a restaurant by a woman who objected to the Somali American speaking her native language, Swahili. Of course, xenophobia exists everywhere to a degree, I would guess most Middle Easterners on the move would gravitate to Europe as a preference. Just a hunch though.

Fred - the US admitted 70,000 refugees in fiscal year 2015 and will admit 85,000 refugees in fiscal year 2016. Secretary Kerry (the Dept of State is responsible for US refugee admissions) has stated that the US will admit 100,000 refugees in 2017. The US refugee admissions program has been around since the 80's and yearly admissions numbers are determined by law by the President. The Syrians arriving in the US will be coming primarily from the Middle East, where actually the refugee crisis is untenable .

Frankfurt's Red Light District is contained in an area of 2 blocks by 3 blocks and if you don't walk through it, you will never know it is there. It certainly does not affect the safety of the rest of this area and is in fact quite safe to walk through. The junkies are busy with themselves and don't bother anyone either. The train station area is not unsafe and there are some wonderful hotels to stay in, hotels that I recommend to people on this forum all the time. Places like Hotel Monopol, Excelsior Hotel, Hamburger Hof, Concorde Hotel, Le Meridian, Nizza Hotel, or Hotel Victoria. None of them are in the RLD and are not affected by it at all.

Have just returned from a meeting where we are finishing plans for the 7th Christmas Eve dinner for the homeless. Will refugees be joining this? Probably. The majority of them are in Kalbach. The donation centers are overflowing with clothing, toys, food, etc. Everyone wants to help.

Don't compare the random acts of violence in some of the eastern cities with the rest of Germany. That would be like thinking the murder rate in all of America is just like that of Miami or LA.

Edit: have been corrected and it seems that Detroit, Oakland, and New Orleans are the cities you should use to compare the rest of the US to.

I would add that refugees are not forced to resettle in a third country. All refugees in the US program are given info at the beginning of the process and can opt out.

That would be like thinking the murder rate in all of America is just like that of Miami or LA.

Please don't use LA or Miami as a punching bag - neither city ranks at the top in terms of murder rates.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/12/highest-murder-rate-us-cities-2013_n_6145404.html

(Thanks for the edit, Ms. Jo - it is much appreciated)

The most of migration after WWII were Germans running away from East Prussia because Russians were coming. Then again 11 million Germans from the area between rivers Oder and Nissa. That part of Germany Stalin gave to Poland to compensate them for the eastern part of Poland which he swallowed. Add 3 million Germans from Sudetenland. There were some other nationalities moving around, too, but overwhelming majority were Germans. Many more people moved around then than now but mostly it was Germans moving to Germany. No (or very little) problem with language, customs, culture etc. Practically immediate or very short assimilation. Todays immigrants will be much bigger challenge.

@ Ken...I had not heard of the number 25,000. As you say, we shall see. I recall Obama saying 10,000, then a week later Mrs Clinton was on Face the Nation, (or one of those programs,) and she mentioned 60,000. But that was back in Sept, no US politician is making front page news on giving the migrants a welcoming signal or message. I wonder how much of Trump's message on immigrants is being heard among the migrants.

True, as pointed out above, there are those Syrian migrants who blame the horrors of war and the mess/predicament in which they find themselves on the US and Obama in particular (we've read about that) because they really believed in his rhetoric. There are those who don't want to come to the US. We haven't seen any public pronouncement of sharply increasing these migrant numbers. You can safely bet there will be howls to such a move in the House of Representatives and even the Senate. Of course, I could be quite wrong in this, but I think not.

Comparing this wave of migrants to what happened in Central Europe after 1945 ie, the Vertreibung, or what is known in anglophone historiography as the "expulsion of the Germans from Central and East-Central Europe" is absurd and historically untenable. Ilja has it right. Whoever advances that contention in an article (haven't seen such an article/argument myself but then I don't follow this as closely as I maybe should...no one I know even bothers or cares what happens, as long it doesn't impact Americans) would not pass as a first year grad student in History.

That expulsion from '45-'49 violated the Allies own principles laid out in the Atlantic Charter and the Declaration made at the Yalta Conference. If you've tried talking to these Heimatsvertriebene (the expellees) from the Prussian East, you would know how they were received by west Germans, who themselves at this time were in the US and British zones. Most of them as teenagers or adults are dead by now. You come at them with English, (assuming they even know it, they don't), they'll clam up since they don't want to dig up this unpleasantness. In my second trip in 1973 I spent an entire afternoon with two women in their mid-60s, former Heimatsvertriebenen from Silesia, and nice enough to indulge me by dicussing and answering my barrage of questions pertaining to this history and what their families experienced. They ended up departing from lower Silesia to the area of Osnabrück, ie, in the British zone, just as the historical maps reveal, said that the west Germans, ie,the local population, saw them, ie, these German refugees from East Prussia, Silesia, and elsewhere in the former Prussian East as "Eindringling." (Intruder). Quite understandable given the US examples.

"Don't compare the random acts of violence in some eastern cities with the rest of Germany." Very true. I totally agree.

If one has traveled extensively, criss-crossed the country, knows the geography, the cultural cues, (good, bad, the ugly), the history, nuances, its trends, concepts, knows the language well, instead of relying on the US press or translations, or on your interlocutor to have a certain level of English in order to communicate and discuss, one would not agree to such simplification.

This is not the Germany of 1932 or even the early 1990s when attacks in both east and west took place, what was called then the Ausländerfeindlichkeit (hostility to foreigners). Recall Rostock, Hoyerswerda, Eberwalde. There are a lot more foreigners/ethnic minorities living in Germany now compared to 1992, as well as tourists wanting to visit Germany...not just bus tours of Japanese businessmen in the blue suits but also Korean and Chinese. I saw Kaiserstraße this last time, outside of the Hbf., hadn't seen the place since 2007...reminds me of Chinatown with its shops, businesses and restaurants, one after another.

For an overview of the post-war situation in Europe, I've recommended this book titled
Savage Continent
here in the forum before:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/savage-continent/id476341873?mt=11
http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447132787&sr=8-1&keywords=savage+continent

If it is the news media saying this comparison with 1945-49, then I am glad it's not you making that assertion. One can stretch the comparison, sort of sounding like shrill history if one says that what is happening now with these waves of migrants that it is the 3rd muslim invasion of Central Europe, first one being in the 1500s with the events of Mohacs in 1526 (to give it that Hungarian reference) followed by the 1st siege of Vienna three years later. The second invasion in 1683 resulting in the second siege of Vienna (known as die Belagerung von Wien) until that was broken up by the famous Polish king and his forces. One can always check the routes taken then and now to see any validity applies.

Fred is right, only this time it's without resisting (with very few exception, Hungary comes to mind) and actually with encouragement (Germany comes to mind).

I agree with James; no country demonstrated any violence against the migrants. Hungary tried to stop wild migration and enforce the Dublin rules. That certainly cannot be considered violence.

Fred - there are a dozen refugee resettlement offices in the Bay Area (Catholic Charities and International Rescue Committee in Oakland; Jewish Family and Childrens' Services in San Fran). Why don't you make contact with these organizations and let them describe their good work to you first hand.

My question is to everyone who is concerned about traveling to Germany. What exactly are you afraid of? Are you afraid of being attacked by refugees or being attacked by neo nazis? Are you afraid of crowds, demonstrations, full trains, border delays or what? I am confused by the massive concern that I keep reading on this forum. Every day life here in Germany is no different than it was before. Tourist attractions are running as usual, no train delays, no crowds of refugees in the station and they won't be on your train. You won't see them in the city. If you don't go to a demonstration, you won't be bothered by ignorant, bigoted neo nazis either. If you don't go to one of the many asylum centers, you probably won't see any of the refugees at all.

Do be aware that I am only speaking about Germany and no other country, since this is where I live. No one that I know has concerns, including my many friends and acquaintances who are actually working WITH the refugees. So if the residents aren't worried, tourists who will only be here for a week or two, and who will only be at tourist sites, museums, or churches certainly don't need to be worried about their safety.

Very well said Ms. Jo. The situation is exactly the same in Austria. Come and visit!

Do be aware that I am only speaking about Germany and no other
country, since this is where I live. No one that I know has concerns,
including my many friends and acquaintances who are actually working
WITH the refugees.

According to a survey by EMNID and N24 68% of all Germans and 77% of the people "who are actually working WITH the refugees" believe social harmony will deteriorate because of the refugees.
Source

Maybe you and your friends are less representative than you think.

That's right. We are less representative. Personally, I find that to be a good thing and not something to be ashamed about.

Shall I post other news clips presenting a different viewpoint from what you posted Martin? One can always find videos, news shows, polls, etc. to support either their own view or the opposing view. They are rather useless.

It still is not dangerous for tourists to come to Germany, which is what this thread and other threads are asking. I am staying on topic, presenting my own experiences, and not bringing in politics or anything else.

While I'm not trying to have a heavy hand here by removing this thread, this is a good opportunity to remind everyone that this is a travel forum. We've all seen how politically charged discussions can devolve on the internet. We're fine with discussing the situation in Germany and other affected countries as it affects your plans to travel there. Please do your best to keep it about travel.

Thanks everyone.

Am I smokin' something or did the webmaster recently ask that this thread be kept on topic (travel related issues re: refugees) rather than politics?

Most people are on topic. In this case politics can certainly affect travel. Or don't you think that potential disintegration of EU and Euro would not? We don't like that certain things are happening but not allowing talk about them would not make them disappear. If politics and travel are not influencing each other Rick Steves would have not written Travel as a Political Act.

To Ilja's point, we do entirely believe that politics and travel influence each other. However, after my last post, I have not seen one post about travel. I just removed ~7 posts. If it continues, I'm not going to spend time evaluating and removing posts that don't belong. I'll just close the thread. To anyone writing a post of a political theme, please make it clear how your contribution influences travel. Otherwise, it's just political.

Why don't we just let political discussions have their way? Anyone of you that has been here longer than a few years knows that we used to have a lighter hand when it comes to political discussions. Unfortunately, this led to a large volume of Community Guideline violations. It led toward a lot of animosity between members of the ol' Helpline. These political discussions were neither contributing to the betterment of our community nor were they furthering the purpose of our forum.

Thanks to everyone for your understanding.

In light of the migrant issue and planning one's trip to Germany in the near future, be it by Americans or other nationalities, ie tons of other nationalities are in Germany and Austria as tourists, and not all of these visitors are white. If any hesitate going on with their German trip, I am certain they won't be Asians, either in planned bus tours or individuals that you see at train stations. With Chinese Germany hold a special veneration along with German products. Attacks or not, I doubt they would be deterred from going to Germany. If you've been to Hong Kong, what make of cars are the taxis? Year after year now, esp, every trip I make to Germany and Austria too, one sees more and more Chinese tourists and businesses, all helping the German economy in Berlin, Frankfurt, etc.

Norma, thank you. We actually still don't know for sure who did it. I just ran in my thinking little bit ahead.

OK, Ilja, a civil response. Thanks.

In terms of safety/terrorism issues, isn't the Turkish community in Germany pretty stable and non-threatening, in terms of its involvement, or lack thereof in terrorism. Also, one of the more secular Moslem communities, I believe.

Bavarian officials are genuinely worried about security. The news articles below indicate genuine concern about the ease with which people currently move across the German border and around Bavaria. One guy from Montenegro with a carload of machine guns and explosives, possibly on his way to the slaughter in Paris according to the article below, was stopped by authorities at the Bavarian border on Thursday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11997118/Paris-attacks-change-everything-on-migrant-crisiswarns-senior-German-politician.html

The Bavarian minister-president seems overwhelmed and is warning of disaster. (These are in German.)

http://www.welt.de/regionales/sachsen/article148845139/Seehofer-warnt-vor-Scheitern.html
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article148851433/Angela-Merkel-soll-Fehler-einraeumen.html