Bayern Day Rail Ticket E25 - train timings!

Comply with the rules, of course. Buy your Bayern ticket as well as a separate ticket to whatever station you like with a train departure from 9:00 onward - it's only a couple of Euros more to avoid the chance of a hefty fine and to show respect for the system, without which it would be an expensive car rental or a very long walk.

If you want to save €, buy the Regio-ticket Allgäu-Schwaben for the trip to Füssen instead of the Bayern Ticket. €20 from a Munich ticket machine. Plus your ticket to Pasing, of course.

Yes, it is just 2.80 EUR more for the ticket to either Ostbahnhof or Pasing. Have that MVV ticket and the Bayern Ticket on you when you board the train and you are good to go.

"There is no german word for discretion..."

On the trains, they keep it very equitable. You either have a valid ticket, or you do not. No excuses, no whining. It's the ultimate in fairness - whether young or old, forgetful or meticulous, tourist or native, trickster or honest person, all people asked to show their tickets are treated the same.

There is a German word for discretion borrowed from the French but in terms of diction would not apply here. "...this is rather inconvenient." For them or for you? Basically, whose problem is it? Yours or theirs? This inconvenience?

Many thanks for your responses. I wonder if they do this on purpose or even if they really realise the inconvenience of these timings v the cheap E25 deal? Anyway, as many of you know, DB run many of the trains in the UK including Arrive Trains Wales. When I pointed out to the management that a deal they had with a Monday to Friday time limit of 9.30am + > which meant an important ‘useful’ train to Chester left at 9.20am, they changed the time to 9am for the deal.

Russ - the Regio Allgau ticket that you suggest for E20 does indeed cover Fussen. However, trains appear to use 2 routes from Munich to Fussen and the ticket you mention only appears to cover the westerly route. So, probably best to pay the E5 more have the option of both routes.

"...trains appear to use 2 routes from Munich to Fussen and the ticket you mention only appears to cover the westerly route."

That's news to me. What have you seen that makes it "appear" that way? AFAIK there's only one train route to Füssen - you will have to travel through the Allgäu-Schwaben zone via Buchloe and Biessenhofen, or you will not get there. It's possible to use the "easterly" north-south train route in the direction of Garmisch, and then to use a connection by bus to reach Füssen from that area, but I doubt you're interested in buses, or in turning a 2-hr. trip into a 4-hr trip.

If you want a second train + bus alternative for reaching Füssen - a scenic one - use that easterly route to Garmisch and then the Ausserfernbahn route through Austria and finally a bus to Füssen. The Bayern Ticket covers the trains in this case - but not the bus leg to Füssen.

"So, probably best to pay the E5 more have the option of both routes."

Well, even if I'm way off base and there is some brand new train route to Füssen, you can't take BOTH routes, right? Presumably you will get on one train or the other right after you buy your ticket at Munich station. If you pick that "westerly" route, buy the €20 ticket.

Wait - you aren't pre-purchasing any of these day passes online, are you? That's a bad idea usually. Pre-purchase won't save you a cent, and you suddenly have a non-refundable ticket.

No Russ, I am not pre-booking as I know I can just show up and buy the ticket on the day. ( I am figuring out what is the best way of visiting Bavaria).

What got me thinking that 2 routes went from Munich to Fussen was the fact that some trains are direct and others require a change en-route. I have just looked back at the names of the stops en-route and now realise that the train options are indeed on the same route.

I have just been checking for Munich to Regensburg and some of the trains were marked ALX. I presume the Bayern Day ticket is valid on these - if they comply with the after 9am weekdays rule?

Many thanks for coming back on this.

some of the trains were marked ALX. I presume the Bayern Day ticket
is valid on these

Yes. ALX trains are regional trains in Bavaria.

If you take the 8:55 Meridian train to Salzburg, it's first stop at Munich East (Ost) is an MVV "kurzstrecke" (short trip) ticket for 1.40€, not 2,80€ .

when I say closer, include the long walk at Hbf because both of those
trains leave from annex stations

I would hardly call those a "long walk" (I've done both).

If you take the "north-south" route, you don't have to go all the way to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. You could get off at Murnau and take the train to Oberammergau, or get off in Oberau and take the bus to Oberammergau. The bus from Garmisch to Füssen stops in Oberammergau.

It you want to go the Außerfernbahn route through the Tirol, go on to Pfronten-Ried or Pfronten-Weißbach. The buses from there to Füssen are covered by the Bayern-Ticket.

If you take the 8:55 Meridian train to Salzburg, it's first stop at Munich East (Ost) is an MVV "kurzstrecke" (short trip) ticket for 1.40€, not 2,80€ .

I believe, according to the MVV, a "kurzstrecke" is a maximum of 4 stops on the S-bahn, including the initial boarding stop and the destination stop. The stops in this direction are Hauptbahnhof, Karlsplatz, Marienplatz, Isartor, Rosenheimer Platz, Ostbahnhof. That is 6 stops, so it is not a "kurzstrecke". If you went to Ostbahnhof ahead of time and boarded an S-bahn at Marienplatz, that would be a "kurzstrecke". The Meridian train does not stop at these intermediate stations, but they count when calculating the MVV ticket price.

The 8:55 Meridian train does not go via Marienplatz. Only the S-Bahn go through the tunnel under the town. The Meridian train goes from the Hbf to Ost on a rail line that goes first to the west, then around south of town to Ost, with no stops on the way. The MVV website says the fare for that train from the Hbf to Ost is a kurzstrecke.

BTW, when the second tunnel under town is completed (2024?), trains will go under town from the Hbf to Ost and on to the airport.

A kurzstrecke is four stops on a tram or bus, but only two stops on the U-/S-Bahn or express bus, but apparently it is the number of stops on a specific route, whether the train stops at them or not. From the MVV webstie, "Haltestellen, die ohne Halt durchfahren werden, sind mitzuzählen." The 8:53 to Füssen doesn't stop from the Hbf to Pasing, but you cannot use a kurzstrecke ticket to Pasing. The train goes to Pasing via Hackerbrücke, Donnersbergerbrücke, Hirschgarten, and Laim.

Many thanks for the responses. SteveB - so, people like DB pitch to run a British train company/franchise, set-up local management and then just take the profits. Being as ATW have old overcrowded trains - due to the Department for Transport allowing them to have a 15 year no growth franchise - it really makes me wonder why DB are contenders for the new contract starting in 2018? I suppose they weren’t obligated to do anything.

Having been on the wrong end of several British DfT franchise decisions since the government decided to nominally give control of the railways to private company (directed so closely by that same government so that you can't sneeze without permission from Whitehall) I can assure you that it doesn't have a lot to do with whether or not things are done right or wrong - a completely political decision every time.

Since I think that James (OP) has had his questions answered (right James?) and we seem to have wandered down the road of British Train Operating Companies and their franchises, I'll just mention the fact - and it is a fact - that the troubles besetting commuters on Southern Rail over the last couple of years are almost all down to requirements set down by the government on the franchise holder after a little government paper called the McNulty report which basically advocates running trains on a shoestring with relatively very few staff in the least expensive way possible. That's also why train companies and the Tube are closing station booking offices - to such an extent that one of them in the East of England (Abellio, owned by the Dutch railway NS) wants to close all station facilities except at 6 stations, down from several hundred. The industrial relations problems at Merseyrail and Northern, and the nearly invisible problems at Virgin West Coast (people think they just cancel trains without looking for why) are in a very similar vein.

So when people complain that train companies are making things worse, it is worth looking for the puppeteer's strings.

This is not advocating any side in the fights, except better service for the passengers - simply the observations of an old hand professional railwayman.

I'm still thinking it is a 2.80 EUR MVV Inner Zone ticket from Hauptbahnhof to Ostbahnhof. That is what the MVV route planner says it is. If you want to call it a Kurzstrecke, go ahead and explain your reasoning to the ticket inspector.

Many thanks Sam for coming back. The odd thing is that on the DB site, you can’t put in for a ticket from Munich Hbf to Paling or Ost. Anyway, not to quibble about a couple of bucks!

Many thanks to Nigel & SteveB for your detailed responses concerning the ATW franchise situation. I have been trying to figure out what has been going on from the railforums site in the Uk, of which I am sure you are aware. It seems to me that the Welsh ‘Government’ wish to take control of the valley lines north of Cardiff and run some sort of tram or tram-train system and take away Network Rail responsibility for the infrastructure. Network Rail wish to retain the infrastructure on the Barry line as this is the diversion for the main line between Cardiff & Bridgend. In the meantime, nothing gets done. At this rate, they will still be using Pacers in 20 years time!

Yes, Sam, without using "advance options", the Journey Planner will only show you the S-/U-Bahn connections from the Hauptbahnhof to Ostbahnhof, and those are one-zone tickets. It probably will not show you the Meridian train. However, if you use the "advanced options" option and deselect the S-Bahn and U-Bahn, it will show you the next best option, which is the Meridian regional train that takes the southern bypass around town without any stations (it goes past, but not through, the S-Bahn statons at Hackerbrücke and Donnersbergerbrücke). For that trip only, the Hbf to Ost is shown as a kurzestrecke, for 1,40€.

Actually, you get the same result (I earlier said you couldn't) for the train from the Hbf to Füssen that leaves Pasing for Füssen at 9:00. That train goes past the stations at Hackerbrücke, etc. A kurzstrecke ticket is also valid on the RE between the Hbf and Pasing.

The odd thing is that on the DB site, you can’t put in for a ticket from Munich Hbf to Paling or Ost.

Just like you can't "put in for" a ticket from Frankfurt (M) Hbf to Mainz. DB doesn't try to compete for ticket sales for local transport within individual Verkehrsverbünde (VV). Since they don't sell the tickets, they don't show prices. For that you have to go to the RMV or MVV website.

So, A Kurzstrecke it is at E1.40. Many thanks for all the advice.

Remember, you can only use the Kurzstrecke ticket for the regional train. If you go to Pasing or Ost with the S-Bahn, you will need a full 1 zone ticket for 2,80€.

I would not have thought about the Kurzstrecke ticket except I looked at the MVV fare for a day when they were apparently working on the tunnel between the Hbf and Ost, so the S-Bahn between those stations was not running, otherwise the site would have shown me the S-Bahn for 2,80€. Instead it only showed me the regional train, for which the fare was a Kurzstrecke ticket at 1,40€.

So, James, thanks for asking the question when you did. I learned something.