Bavaria - Summer 2020

Summer in Bavaria sounds great! You can do everything you want without a car (Eagle’s Nest might be the only tricky bit.) The rail network in this area is fantastic, lots of trains everywhere.

I’d split your time between Munich and Salzburg, heading straight to Salzburg on your arrival day. Three nights in Salzburg (two full days) should be enough to enjoy the place and see Eagle’s Nest. There’s not too much sightseeing there besides, but it’s a lovely place that can capture the heart. Fantastic Biergartens of course, don’t miss Augustiner Biergarten. You could spend the rest of your trip in Munich easily, and day trip to Neuschwanstein and elsewhere as you like. See both castles at Neuschwanstein btw. There’s plenty of day trip options. Nuremberg was pretty cool, and the Documentation Museum is incredible. In Munich, plan on spending a day just enjoying Englisher Garden.

I feel like you have a night or two to play with in there if you wanted to stay somewhere else. Fussen is good for visiting the castles, and you could rent bikes or do a little hiking there. Hallstatt is near Salzburg and would be a good choice as well. Anyways, you have lots of options and it’s all pretty easy to do. Got to love that about Germany.

Noob to Rick Steves' forum question...
I posted a reply to this and am unable to see it. However, when I try to post it again the system tells me I already replied with the same thing. What gives?

Just noticed it even shows 3 posts under my name after posting this one... and all 3 would have been in this thread

Anyway, let's try this again...

Thanks so much for the reply. I like the idea of going straight to Salzburg but after speaking with the wife she seems to be interested in spending even more time in Austria. I've put a sample itinerary below and added what I assume will be the days of week as well. Travel time will likely be late Jun / early Jul.

Sat: Day 1 - Depart for Munich
Sun: Day 2 - Arrive Munich early AM (This is technically arrival day and night 1)
Mon: Day 3 - Munich
Tue: Day 4 - Munich
Wed: Day 5 - Munich
Thu: Day 6 - Munich
Fri: Day 7 - Munich
Sat: Day 8 - Train to Salzburg AM
Sun: Day 9 - Salzburg
Mon: Day 10 - Train to Vienna AM
Tue: Day 11 - Vienna
Wed: Day 12 - Vienna
Thu: Day 13 - Fly Vienna to home --- arrive same day

Nights:
Munich = 6
Salzburg = 2
Vienna = 3

Any issues with this itinerary? Too much time in Munich (or could we find sufficient day trips for this to work)? Would we be better to day trip Salzburg (or start there as previously suggested) and move to another base in Bavaria for a few days before heading back to Munich?

This will all be new scenery for us so I don't think there are really any wrong answers here. I try not to look at it from a perspective of 'you must see this!' because frankly if I miss it this time it's just a great excuse to come back. I just know I don't want to be moving to a new base every 2-3 days for 2 weeks in order to pack everything in.

CORRECTION: A suggestion would be to take one of the Munich days and add it to VIENNA. I was in VIENNA this time last year, and there was so much we didn't get to experience. It's a fabulous city with so much history and culture!

Rent a car will probably be cheaper for 2 & it gives you incredible flexibility. First Base, get out of Munich. It's a 2nd rate tourist sight & a big city which is royal pain if driving. Stay in Memmingen or Ottobrunnen with good expressway access to Ulm, Lake Constance, Augsburg, Dachau, Nordlingen (closer, less crowded version of Rothenburg O.d.T., The Royal Castles, Wies Church, Linderhof, The German Alpine Road, Garmicsh.

Second Base: Bad Ischl, Austria. Close to Salzburg but smaller, less crowded, & cheaper. See Salzburg, Hallstatt, Gosausee, circle the Dachstein, Salzkammergut. then drive to Vienna with stops at Wilhering, St Florian, Melk, & Krems.

Any issues with this itinerary? Too much time in Munich (or could we
find sufficient day trips for this to work)? Would we be better to day
trip Salzburg (or start there as previously suggested) and move to
another base in Bavaria for a few days before heading back to Munich?

This will all be new scenery for us so I don't think there are really
any wrong answers here. I try not to look at it from a perspective of
'you must see this!'
All I know I want to do is go to Bavaria.

There's nothing "wrong" with any itinerary if it matches your goals and interests. But I sense a certain mismatch here and will share some concerns for your consideration.

• Words like "Bavaria" and "scenery" stick out strongly in your post. While Munich is obviously in Bavaria, it is a huge city that was heavily rebuilt - at least 50% was destroyed in the war. If the images you are entertaining are alpine lakes, handsomely-painted, buildings, cozy villages, and breathtaking peaks, you are definitely sleeping in the wrong town. Every one of your 6 Bavarian nights will be spent in Munich? Vienna is similarly urban and you have 3 nights there. And Salzburg is no village either.

• If Rothenburg is to be a day trip from Munich, you must plan on at least 5-6 hours of train travel on that day. I'm sure you know it's about the same if you day trip to Neuschwanstein. These time-eating round-trip journeys should be eliminated if possible. Adding a third base town, with one more check-out and check-in move, could actually SAVE you time if you choose well.

• Vienna combines well with a trip to Budapest. With just 11 nights, I do not understand chucking it in with a trip that is supposed to focus on Bavaria (and Salzburg, I guess.) You could fly in and out of Munich without Vienna in the picture.

• Rick Steves highlights the most touristy of touristy destinations in Bavaria and skips many good places that are less plagued by the international tourist horde. Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein can be shockingly overrun in summer.

• You mentioned hiking all day long... so maybe stay a few nights in places where people do that, like Berchtesgaden, or Füssen, or Mittenwald (lovely-village, Alps galore, near the Austrian border, with the Karwendelbahn lift, the Zugspitze, and Garmisch-Partenkirchen nearby. Don't worry - ALL these places have beer!) Try the Bavarian Evening at the Fraundorfer in G-P.

Train and bus map of G-P/Mittenwald/Innsbruck region south of Munich

(Since you were considering Salzburg as a day trip, one thought might be to stay in pretty Berchtesgaden and day trip from there into Salzburg. That's a shorter day trip than from Munich.)

• So that you can actually tour a real castle, I would make sure to visit one of the Salzburg-area castles - like Hohenwerfen, a true medieval castle, with a falconry show as well (Neuschwanstein is a late 19th-century residential palace with a fake castle exterior.)

I heartily agree with all of Russ' feedback. I enjoy Munich for a night or two but for what it sounds like you're interested in doing on this holiday, it probably wouldn't be the best base.

If you're interested in hiking, Berchtesgaden is absolutely spectacular. The town itself is small and touristy but it's easy to hop one of the many local buses and head off to find a great hiking trail or go into Salzburg for the day. I was staying in Berchtesgaden one year while the Salzburg festival was on and it was fun to see locals dressed up in their traditional clothing catching the bus to head into town for an evening at the opera.

For a change from the mountains but keeping the spectacular scenery, the lakes near Salzburg are another fantastic summer destination. I loved Wolfgangsee and spent 5 nights in St Gilgen (very conveniently on the Salzburg-Bad Ischl bus route if you're travelling without a car), hiking and swimming happily each day. Taking the bus to Bad Ischl and leisurely strolling through the spa town and visiting the Kaiservilla was another highlight. Like Berchtesgaden, it's very easy to visit Salzburg from here. This would also be a great place to have a car if you wanted to explore a bit more but you wouldn't need one.

Personally, I'd still want to spend a couple of days in Munich. Yes, the city has been rebuilt but there is still lots of history and culture to take in, plus it's fun to observe the workings of the modern city and see why it's consistently ranked one of the best places to live. The many biergartens must have something to do with it!

There is no where nicer than Bavaria in summer - unless it's Austria! Between the two of them you can't go wrong. Happy planning!

I agree with Russ's feedback, too. I spent 5 days in the Berchtesgaden area a couple of years ago and loved it. I stayed in Ramsau bei Berchtesgaden at this picturesque place (some basic German language skills are needed to stay at this particular establishment as the owner does not speak English). There is a lot of hiking in the area. A car does make getting from place to place a little more efficient (though there are buses that run in the area).

i agree that Garmisch-Partenkirchen has a lot to offer, too. I will admit that I have spent less time in other areas of Bavaria. I will be in Austria/Bavaria for 2 weeks Spring 2020, so I'm looking forward to further exploration!

The Cicerone Guide Walking in the Bavarian Alps can show you what is available in Berchtesgaden and other areas of Bavaria in terms of hiking. If you did end up going to Berchtesgaden, David Harper, who owns the RS-recommended Eagles Nest Historical Tours, has written an excellent guide to the area that was very helpful to me in planning my time there (and also includes hiking recommendations).

Russ mentions the castle at Werfen. Werfen also has a fantastic ice cave

Thanks to everyone for the detailed replies!

I do feel that I need to clarify something. While we love the outdoors we also enjoy urban locations. However, I will say that on this trip my vision is more towards the outdoors so think a split that is more in line with 40-50% urban would be better. Thanks for giving me some ideas to help get this started.

Let's assume I will rent a car for this. If folks believe I would be just as well off without then please feel free to let me know!

(Super high level concept here)
1) Land in Munich, pick up car
2) Drive to Berchtesgaden (or Salzburg?) - Stay here for 3-5 nights --- Considering Salzburg for more urban evenings/night time but quick access to the outdoors during the day
3) Drive to Garmisch-Partenkirchen - Stay here for 3-5 nights
4) Drive to Munich, drop off car - Stay here for 2-3 nights
*Note, not sure which between 2 & 3 to spend the most time. I believe the answer is likely 1 due to jet lag but opinions are certainly welcome here!

This would drop Vienna and keep us primarily in the southern region for a more efficient trip. One point of consideration, and completely counter to the efficiency noted in the previous sentence., would it be advisable to potentially add a road trip in between G-P and Munich? For example, drive from G-P to Rothenburg (or Nordlingen as previously suggested) and then back track to Munich?

**Claire --- I just looked at St. Gilgen. It is now in the running for #2 above as well. This area is just so full of amazing locations to choose from, all of which seem to tug against one another for various reasons.

"would it be advisable to potentially add a road trip in between G-P and Munich? For example, drive from G-P to Rothenburg (or Nordlingen as previously suggested) and then back track to Munich" - No.

Five nights in the Berchtesgaden area. I like Ramsau and Ruhpolding, the latter just outside in the Chiemsee region. Lots to see and do, including your urban fix in Salzburg.
Five nights in the G-P area. I prefer Mittenwald, Oberammergau is more central. You can hit Innsbruck from either for another urban fix, though Fussen and the castles close by are quicker to reach from Oberammergau.