3-Week Proposed Itinerary

Congrats on planning what looks to be an enjoyable trip. I'm always happy to see an itinerary that doesn't look too rushed.

For driving times, look at Google Maps or via Michelin. Their times are for ideal conditions and no enroute stops, so we usually add on 25%. Hopefully one of our Germany experts can help you with your Rhine cruise plans.

Answers to all your driving time questions:
https://www.viamichelin.com/

"10/7: We would like to cruise the Rhine as far as we can for the day..."

Not a good strategy. The really scenic part (Bingen to St. Goar or thereabouts) takes about 1.5 hours and is all you need to cruise. Map of this area. If you have a day - and it sounds like you do - then the wise thing is to investigate some of the attractive towns and the true medieval castles that dot the Rhine between Koblenz and Bingen. You can do some of this by train.

Castles

Towns

So I'd take the train from Cologne to St. Goar and drop bags at your choice of hotels there. Then take the train to Bingen. Cruise from there back to St. Goar or St. Goarshausen. Visit either Rheinfels Castle (in St. Goar) or Marksburg Castle (a completely intact castle north of St. Goarshausen, 20 minutes by train.) After that, return to St. Goar for the night. You might want to take the train to Bacharach (10 minutes from St. Goar) if you have time - really nice old half timbered buildings.

The next day take the train to FRA (8:56, arrive 10:30? earlier trains too.)

For driving times I would use Here's WeGo. This is the software built in some GPS systems of German car manufacturers - therefore they know the times from a few million real routes per year. They also include the current road constructions.

For Munich and Berlin you can expect extremely high prices for accomodation due to main events. If you like churches do not miss to visit the 3 catholic Basilica Minor in Berlin.

Have in mind that October 3 is national holiday in Germany.

I would spend less nights in Munich and add a night in Nuremberg or Bamberg - both along speed railways from Munich.

I agree to Russ: On Oct 7 book a castles tour through mid Rhine valley.

Some basic tips to travel in Germay.

I’d add a day or two to the Middle Rhine. Cut a day out of any of the other stops.

I'll assume you are not traveling in Winter... My opinion maybe squeeze in Heidelberg or the Franken Wein region after Frankfurt cutting a day from Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Keep the rental longer and spend more time in the Alps with another stop (Zugpitz Arena, Berchtesgaden/Salzburg area?) reducing Füssen and Munich time.

9/20-22: 3 nights in Rothenberg seeing sites in/around area.

One full day (2 nights) in Rothenberg is probably plenty, cute, great walled town, Brilliant church windows and altarpiece. "The area" isn't much to me.

9/23-25: 3 nights in Fussen seeing sites in/around Fussen including castles.

3 nights (2 full days) is good since the castles have timed arrivals and public transportation can be time consuming.

9/26 - Depart Fussen early AM and drive to Munich, drop off rental car. Again, what is the driving time from Fussen to Munich?

2 hours to Munich - check Google Maps - driving in Munich is tough so be sure to get the best drop-off point available. That gives you the first afternoon to look around and get your bearings.

9/26-30: 5 nights (4 full days) in Munich visiting sites yet to be decided (definitely Dachau 1/2 day and planning Oktoberfest on Monday, 9/30)

5 nights (4 full days) will give a great visit. Dachau (one full day?) may take a whole day since again there are limited entry times and the S Bahn takes time to get out and back. I needed a half day respite to process what I saw and felt after that visit. Oktoberfest - one full day. Two days touring - Residence, Alta and Neue Pinoteka Museums, all very good. Lembach Haus (House) has great 20th century art - Blue Rider Movement, etc.

10/1: Take train to Berlin

The new fast train to Berlin only takes 4 - 5 hours.

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/index.shtml

10/1-5: 5 nights in Berlin visiting sites yet to be decided

10/6: Train to Cologne, 1 night in Cologne (Only reason we're going to Cologne is to visit the Cathedral)

5 hours to Koln from Berlin. Tour the Cathedral after arrival.

10/7: We would like to cruise the Rhine as far as we can for the day and somehow end up in Frankfurt.

10/7- 9 am train into the Valley for a one night stay, as mentioned St. Goar is good although I love Bacharach... Check in, drop luggage. Take a cruise for the afternoon, maybe climb up to a castle. Many hotels have loaner bicycles which you can go up and down the Rhine with on the bike path/road shoulder.

1 hour by train back to Frankfurt Flughafen (airport is on the main train line).

Not sure if cruising the Rhine is feasible as we'll have one piece of luggage (actually large backpacks). Is there someplace to store/keep luggage while cruising for the day? Would it be better to cruise only 1/2 a day and then take train the rest of the way to Frankfurt? If so, where would we catch the train? This part I'm having some difficulty with. We would like it be a relaxing day because it's the last day of the trip.
10/8: Depart FRA at 1:25 PM.
Thanks in advance for your comments/suggestions!!

Welcome to the forum. You have planned a solid itinerary for a very enjoyable trip. I like that you are taking your time as you move through Germany.

I cannot comment on the first part of your trip because I have not been to Rothenburg and I only passed through Füssen for a stop at Neuschwanstein when traveling between Innsbruck and Munich. I will say that Füssen appears to have much to offer outside of the king's castles. The hiking looks grand.

If a Rhine River wine festival paired with fireworks over the Rhine speaks to you and if you have the flexibility to reverse the course of your trip, St Goar and St Goarshausen will have their annual wine festival Sept 18-21 with the fireworks show on Sept 21. https://www.rhein-in-flammen.com/st-goar-st-goarshausen/st-goar-st-goarshausen.html

Possible itinerary for a reverse trip (dates refer to where you sleep at night):
9/19-9/21: Rhine town (train straight to Rhine after arrival at Frankfurt)
9/22: Cologne
9/23-9/27: Berlin
9/28-10/2: Munich (still in Munich 9/30)
10/3-10/5: Füssen
10/5-10/6: Rothenburg (I knocked 1 night off Rothenburg)
10/7: Frankfurt

No matter what itinerary you pick, you'll have a great time.

Since you have a car, the best drive in Germany is FRA to Trier (once the capital of the Roman Empire) via the Rhine Gorge and Mosel Valley. You can ten either jump on the expressway back to Frankfurt or reverse the drive, which looks very different depending on which way you are going. The Rhine and model meet at Koblenz which is a short drive to Cologne.

From FRA to Rothenburg odT. See Heidlelberg, Bad Wimpfen, Schwabish Hall, and Wurzburg on the way.

The second best drive in Germany is the German Alpine road, which includes the Fussen region

Munich and Berlin are bummers. Skip them. To understand why Berlin is not worth a visit, go to the Michelin web site for London which lists 452 tourist attractions in London. Go through the list, especially the highest rated sights, and ask yourself, did this sight exist before 1945 or was it a post war creation? You will find that almost all recommended to see sites are old (historic)-- pre 1945. London is a historic city, which tourists love. Because Berlin decided to rebuild in modern style rather than restore the historic cit. Berlin, is a modern city and tourists to the EU don't want see modern cites. Tourists want to see historic, not modern.

452 sights in historic London but only 149 Michelin sights in Berlin because WWII destroyed most of the historic city and rebuilt as a post 1950, boring, modern city. Of Berlin's 9 *** sights, only 3 are historic buildings and the illustrative photo of the fake news *** "Historic Center" features a TV broadcasting tower. TV is not historic. TV is modern and so is Berlin and that's why tourists should skip it.

Like London, Rome is historic, not modern, with 203 Michelin sights. 100% of the 45 *** sights are old. Most tourists who travel to cites go to see history, not modernity. Berlin is modern, and therefore of scant touristic value

With nearly 50 years travel experience in the EU (54 tourist trips) I quickly discerned that the best of Europe's cites are the ones with lots of old stuff. There follows a mathematical proof that I am right. I compare my favorite cites in Europe-- London, Rome, Prague, and Barcelona to two major cites that rebuilt modern after WWII rather than restoring their historic appearance, Berlin and Cologne. From Michelin, I list three comparisons, 1] the total number of listed sights, 2] the total number of sights rated **, and the % of all listed sights rating **. It is clear that the modern cites are not places for tourists.

count of recommended sights: Prague 117 Berlin 149 London 452 Rome 203 Cologne 23 Barcelona 128

count of *** sights: Prague 22 Berlin 9 London 22 Rome 45 Cologne 1 Barcelona 10
% *** sights: Prague 19% Berlin 6% London 5% Rome 22% Cologne 4% Barcelona 8%

jonrau1,

One of the beauties of human existence is the diversity in our thinking. In contrast to the view above, Berlin is my favorite city in Europe... to the point of spending 33 nights there over the last 4 years. Of course, that's a function of my interests... I'm learning German. I love 20th century history. I like arts, culture, and live music of all types. I agree that old stuff in Europe is cool, but I find modernity pretty interesting, too. IMHO, Berlin offers a good mix of the two.

Thanks to everyone for your valuable advice - exactly what I was hoping for. I have made some changes to my itinerary, deciding to shorten Berlin by one night, then taking the train to from Berlin to Cologne, visit the cathedral there, then take the train on to Bacharach for three night. On 10/8 we'll take an early from Bacharach to FRA to catch our 1:30 flight home.

If you have the time consider this on your drive to Rothenburg. Go to Aschaffenburg. It has a neat castle and a replica of a Pompeiian (sp?) estate house. Just south of there on the old road to Wurzburg is the town of Haibach and just south of there is the village of Mespelbrun. There is a castle there that has been in the same family for four or five centuries. It's still lived in and is surrounded by a moat. A real fairy tale place and tours are usually available. Then it's an easy drive to Wurzburg (perhaps an overnight?) and Rothenburg. Do a google search for Aschaffenburg, Mespelbrun, and Wurzburg and see what you think.

Three days in Rothenburg on the Tauber is a bit much. You can see all the city in one full day.

If you stay there, you could go down the Romantic Road a ways and visit Dinkelsbuhl, Donauwurth and more.

I would say driving time from FRA to Rothenburg is probably 2-2.5 hours. Last time we did the city it was from Augsburg and we visited other Romantic Road cities. Rothenburg to Fussen with no stops is probably 2.5 hours.

Hi,

Good that you would spend 5 bights in Berlin....more would even be better.

With the 5 nights you have time to do one day trip if you choose, eg, going to Potsdam in the morning, go on the tours that are around Potsdam Hbf. Most of them include going to Sans Souci and Neues Palais, which is a plus. If you're into the history, ie, Prussian history, this is it, seeing Potsdam on your own after getting the overview from the tour.

Part of the premises of Neues Palais is now the university of Potsdam.

If you are into the war history in the greater Berlin area, there are numerous sites pertaining to the British, Germans, Russians...all depends on your level of interest to track down.

The battlefield museum and memorial is at Seelow. I've been there twice, changed now from the first time I was there 7-8 years ago.

Take to regional train from Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt an der Oder, then the S-Bahn to Seelow. The Oder Bruch itself is interesting. You won't see any tourists, if any, maybe some German, but certainly no international or US tourists.

If you want to spend 3 nights in Rothenburg, do so. You have a car. There are plenty of places in the neighborhood to check out.. i’m spending 3 nights there this fall - my fourth visit.

Came close to choking on my coffee this morning when I read that Berlin is a bummer and not worth visiting. Obviously from someone who has NEVER been there! Please folks, if you have not been to a city, telling other people not to go there and that it isn't worth their time is just not right. Listing random statistics is meaningless and sounds more like a basement traveler.

You will not be able to find affordable accommodation in Frankfurt on 19 Sept. because the IAA or international auto show is in Frankfurt. This is the biggest car show in the world and if you should find a hotel room, it will cost you triple the amount it usually costs. You will need to go at least 50km outside of Frankfurt to find a reasonable price. Suggest doing your tour a bit in reverse. After your arrival at the airport, head down the Rhine by train to where hotels will be cheaper. An alternative is to take the train from the airport and go to Büdingen or Gelnhausen to stay your first night. Büdingen especially, is just like Rothenburg except it is all original and isn't clogged with buses, tourists and souvenir stores. https://www.buedingen.info/en/

If all you want to see in Cologne is the cathedral, why stay there overnight? The city does have other sites that are worthy of seeing, but you don't mention them and we don't know what your interests are? This was a huge Roman city, so they have a lot of artifacts here as well as many Romanesque churches.

Hi,

What you could do is to change your entire itinerary from the date of arrival to 10/1 by going straight ti Berlin after landing at FRA. Of course, I do not advise driving on your arrival date. I've gone to Berlin from Frankfurt Hbf after landing a couple of hours earlier but only by the direct ICE train.

I know you are still planning out the details on what to focus on in Berlin. Skip the usual tourist sites unless they coincide with where your interests lie. My first times to Berlin starting in 1971 focused on going to sights I wanted to see, mainly historical, regardless if they were of interest to tourists, that's irrelevant.

If you want to see historical related sights, then you have lots of choices, even more so adding in Potsdam, pertaining to Nazi, Prussian, Cold War, WW1 and WW2 and post-unification eras. You just have to know where to track these down. ie, going from Spandau to Karlshorst or Köpenick.

I went to Spandau for the first time in 2017 (yes, it's late) and realised right away as I was out and about that I should have been there in the 1970s or '80s when I was in Berlin on those trips.

Thanks again everyone for all of your opinions and great advice - much appreciated! One of the great advantages of forums such as this is hearing the opinions of others who have traveled the area. I've taken into consideration everyone's travel insight and have pretty much figured out my itinerary. Now I just need to fill in the gaps and focus on the "must sees, must dos, and If I have more time then . . ." in each destination. When traveling abroad our goal is to learn, absorb, be enlightened - not to hurry or be rushed. I'm sure I'll have more specific questions in the weeks/months to come. Thanks again!