3 day / 3 night advice for the Mosel/Rhine River Valleys

Are you still flying into LUX? Trains are free of charge in Luxembourg, so you can travel from L'burg city to the German border without tickets. Buses connect LUX with the station.

The car: Were you somehow turned off by the high train prices you might have found online? It's not easy to suss out those costs for comparison.

Generally speaking - 5 is the perfect number for traveling by train economically. Any day pass or multi-day pass you buy covers up to that many persons. So from the German border with Luxembourg to a Rhine town like Boppard or St Goar - or to Cochem on the Mosel - the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (day pass) covers everyone in your family for €38.

https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tickets/leisure-tickets/rheinland-pfalz-ticket/

Then there's another day pass, the VRM Mini-group ticket. €30.50/day covers everyone on any trips you wish to make within the VRM travel zone (Which includes Cochem, Boppard, St Goar, and many other Rhine and Mosel towns.)

https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tickets/leisure-tickets/minigroup-ticket/

These passes can be bought on the spot. No reservations, no pre-purchase. Both passes allow free hop-off, hop-on travel and near-100% flexibility. And they cover any buses you might need (like the ones that go to Burg Eltz.) No insurance, no contracts, no environmental stickers, no parking fees... Travel on passes is vastly simpler than on train-specific tickets or traveling by car, IME.

Oh... almost forgot... Cheaper yet - free, actually - the VRM Guest Ticket, is another pass which every individual staying in BOPPARD gets for free - and it's valid throughout your stay in Boppard. It's good throughout the VRM zone - and a little further in some cases.

Cost isn't everything. People often choose a car despite the low cost of train travel without an understanding of the system, the assumption being that trains and schedules will somehow slow them down or hem them in. I've made uncountable journeys from several different base towns in the Rhine and Mosel Valleys by train. And I've done some by car too. But the fact is that trains go nearly everywhere here, and the system is extensive, frequent, and generally efficient. The only real trick is to base yourselves in a town with good connections to other places - and these rivers have several really good ones.

Besides the free guest ticket, Boppard, a great place on it's own merits, is the first place you should be looking for lodging on the Rhine. It has more lodging options than any other small Rhine town, it's a convenient travel base, and it's a convenient place to finish an afternoon river cruise as well.

Cochem is a good pick for the Mosel base. 

There are many other towns on the Rhine and Mosel railways, however, that could work well for you as well. Some of the innkeepers in other towns offer the VRM Guest Ticket as well, but they are few in number. Boppard issues these passes universally.

From the Mosel there are connections to Paris (are you still headed there?) via Saarbruecken and Luxembourg. All you have to do is enter the town names. Cochem (Mosel) > Paris for example:

https://int.bahn.de/en/

I just did that and found a train with one change - the trip at 8:41 am takes 4 hrs. 11 minutes.

There is plenty to see and do in both river valleys, plenty that is not included in Rick's materials in addition to what he does cover. 6 days there is a good plan.

Below are a few family activities that aren't often mentioned in Rick's materials and might interest you.

Rhine:
- Bridge at Remagen WW II museum
- Marksburg Castle, Braubach (handsome old town zone)
- Chairlift ride to lookout in Boppard, Gedeonseck terrace
- Fortress Ehrenbreitstein (Koblenz)
- Loreley-bobsled run, near the Loreley statue/cliffs (shuttle bus 535 from St Goarshausen)
- Middle Rhine Klettersteig
- Oberwesel (walk the old town fortifications from tower to tower)

Mosel:
- Hike to Prinzenkopf lookout tower (near Bullay)
- Klotti Wildlife and Amusement Park
- Reichsburg Castle in Cochem
- Moselbad waterpark in Cochem
- River cruises to Beilstein and Bernkastel

You may find a handful of small October festivals, but most of those take place in SEPTEMBER. Boppard has the first weekend of October set for its final fest:

https://www.boppard-tourismus.de/en/news-events/whats-on-throughout-the-year/

Russ,

Thank you for your detailed response and information. Yes, we are still flying in and out of LUX and plan to go to Paris after the Mosel/Rhine. Good memory!

I was worried about trains in the region because: 1. It honestly feels overwhelming to suss out our options and costs. 2. my husband said he preferred to drive, 3. I wasn't sure about logistics of luggage and transport and 4. It's seems more expensive to travel via train at least on the way to/from Paris (ie: a train from Mosel > Paris on the website you linked for May (as an example) = $140 Eur/ adult one way. vs. Car rental for the days in Germany = $200ish and train from LUX > Paris = $588 RT for all 5 of us for the same time in May. ) Perhaps there are cheaper family tickets/discounts, but again, sussing out all the options feels overwhelming.

You mention 6 days in this region being a good plan. Unfortunately, we don't have 6 days to spend, but only 3ish. Considering this, should we focus on just one river valley rather than try to fit it all in? I noticed Rick's guidebook mentions spend 1 day in Mosel and 1-2 days in Rhine, so maybe it's possible?

Thanks for all the family-friendly links and options. I'll look into those.

Some of the things on Russ's list will close in OCT. You'll need to check. Everything will be winding down on both rivers. The towns completely shut down once the tour boats stop for the season. It's a very noticeable difference.

If you plan to rent a car, try to get a station wagon. They are much more common in Germany and better than the SUVs. Driving along the Mosel can be extremely slow, if you stay right along the river. That's because the speed limit in town is 30 kph in most places, plus you have to deal with tractors on the main roads.

I suggest you just stay in one valley. I prefer the Mosel, but the Rhine would do also. Do seriously consider a day in Trier or Mainz, as they are both fantastic cities. I'd say these would be ideal for a day when it rains. (The odds are good that one day in three will rain in OCT.)

You can get specific info on the Mosel here: https://en.visitmosel.de/

This can be helpful also: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Moselle_Valley_(Germany) / https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Middle_Rhine_Valley

Thank you for the reply and links. I'm not familiar with the wikivoyage.com website, but it looks like it can be helpful!

Things simply are not quite as they seem to you at this point, lonicia.rowley, and that's quite natural. You haven't been to these places, so you are here to inform yourself more fully. And information will make you feel less overwhelmed and more confident about your decisions.

Transport expenses:

1) If you pick up a car in one country and drop it in another, expect a whopping surcharge. Have you looked into that?

2) Train costs: I would never pay €500 to go to Paris by train either!! I don't know your sources, but they don't seem very competitive... DB (German Railways) is selling "saver fare" tickets right now for travel to Paris from the town of Saarbrücken at prices that do not remotely approach $500 for your family. It's quite simple to check fares there, so I did, using the ages you supplied. You had the idea of starting from Luxembourg. The results below are from the GERMAN town of Saarbrücken, on the border with France. The trip takes less than two hours!

High-speed, DIRECT, long distance ICE train, Saarbrücken > Paris:Paris, Sept. 30:

8:00 > 9:50, €119.49/5
11:00 > 12:52, €179.25
15:00 > 16:52, €179.25

Same trains, Oct. 1: €119.49, €179.25, €159.33

I gave you these dates because tickets beyond these dates are not yet available for sale. But on the day they DO become available, they will be similarly priced. Tickets for Oct. 2 go on sale tomorrow. Oct. 3, day AFTER tomorrow. Etc, etc, etc. These saver fares are non-refundable, but they are valid tickets that are commonly recommended on this forum I've used them many times myself.

My suggestion was to stay in Cochem, so I checked the October 1 fare from there for the train arriving 12:51 in Paris; the connecting train that leaves Cochem at 8:41 meets the 11:00 direct train from Saarbrücken. The entire fare from Cochem would be €221.67. So starting from Cochem adds abouit €42 to the cost of the ticket from Saarbrücken.

I don't know what your car + gas + insurance + drop off fee + parking will cost for getting to Paris. But if you want an true train option for comparison, start checking the DB site for these fares on the appropriate dates:

https://int.bahn.de/en/

Looks to me like the train might represent a substantial savings. And the kids might enjoy that more than the back seat as well. The Rhine and the Mosel are well known as Germany's two most scenic train rides, btw.

I misread your time frame for the Rhine/Mosel. With only 3 days, stay in ONE place. Don't expect to have anywhere near the time needed to do all those things I listed.

October closings:
Klotti: Oct. 27

I am not aware of any of the other places I mentioned closing in October, but it's always good to check.

More information about German trains from the European train expert:

https://www.seat61.com/train-travel-in-germany.htm#What%20are%20German%20trains%20like
https://www.seat61.com/train-travel-in-germany.htm#Travel%20tips

"I wasn't sure about logistics of luggage..."

Well Germans are known to pack the trains with themselves and their bags when they vacation (which is normally NOT in October) so you can do the same, but at a time of year when fewer are traveling. There are usually overhead racks of one size or another and space under or behind your seat for this purpose:

https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x376/dam/jcr:96912335-241b-484b-96c8-1004c484944d/Gep%C3%A4ckimFVohneC.jpg

If you are carrying large, really heavy bags (don't do that, but...) regional trains sometimes have bike cars with flip-down seats where you could manage.

https://www.schwarzwald-tourismus.info/_Resources/Persistent/60a29e93fe67d1c42509f84c3eb67fbebac4f58f/Fahrradwagen-752x423.jpg

But it's much better to follow Rick's advice on packing sensibly:

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/packing-light/packing-smart

Russ,

Once again, thanks for all the advice and detailed feedback. I'll have to look more closely at the train options. Clearly, you're a better and more experienced searcher than I am. :)

We plan to travel with a carry on and backpack each. So, fairly manageable, but not something I'd want to be saddled with for a full day of sightseeing.

When I priced out the car rental, I was looking at circling back to LUX after Germany to avoid the surcharge for dropping off in another location and then catching the train to Paris from there. I was never planning on driving all the way to Paris, as I don't want to pay for a rental there and worry about parking. You offer some other options of possibilities, which I'll look into.

Also, the $500 was for a round trip ticket from LUX to Paris on the Rail Europe website (again, not sure if that's the best place to look). It looks like your train prices might come in slightly under that, but not too far off if we factored in the roundtrip total. I agree, I think my children would appreciate a train experience more, so I'd definitely like to include that at some point on our trip. Come from the western US, we have little opportunity for train or public transportation, so it feels like not only an exciting novelty, but also slightly overwhelming.

Also, the $500 was for a round trip ticket from LUX to Paris on the
Rail Europe website (again, not sure if that's the best place to
look).

I doubt I'm a better fare-searcher than you. I'm the middle of planning a trip elsewhere in Europe where the trains aren't as great as they are in Germany - and I am struggling. I just benefit from lots of previous experience with Germany. Raileurope generally isn't much help in Germany. Truth is, there is no one source that is best for all possible journeys. When I am heading places other than Germany... if I am not sure, or when I feel like a lost child (as I've been feeling this week) I seek help from the Man in Seat 61.

Whether you are traveling Luxembourg > Paris > Luxembourg, or Cochem > Paris > Cochem, he will have solid advice for you on how to get tickets and from whom. I encourage you to take advantage of his wisdom:

https://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Luxembourg.htm
https://www.seat61.com/Germany.htm
https://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Paris.htm

Having read your interactions I would like to suggest that you try and stay in a castle. There are several Castle Hotels in the area you'll be traveling and they are always a highlight for me. Also they are surprisingly reasonable.