21 days trip in Germany stating and ending in Frankfurt

topaz1991, my only suggestion is that you book your flights (if you haven't done that yet) as a multi-city ticket - aka open-jaw, and just fly home from Berlin. Otherwise you are wasting most of a day in a rail station and on a train traveling back to Frankfurt just to fly out - not much time at all to explore further. If there's a cost difference, you have to weigh the extra cost versus the cost of the train and the wasted time.

I agree to stan's statement with the flight and recommend also not to under-estimate the train travel times, e. g. Black Forrest to Dresden is a nearly 7 hours train ride. So you will not end up with 2 full days in Dresden.

I would also change row Black Forrest before Munich; it reduces ways and saves travel time.

Topaz, welcome to this board with your first post. Can you give us an idea of how you made this list up, and what sources you are quoting? That may help you get the best advice. Month of year?

What does "mentioned before" refer to?

1) I lived in Stuttgart for a few months and don't recommend spending much time there. Main things to see are the Mercedes factory and Porsche factory.

2) You travel takes you from Stuttgart to Munich then to the Black Forest and then to Dresden and Berlin. Consider revising that plan.
Why not skip Stuttgart and head directly to the Black Forest, then the Munich area and then Dresden and Berlin?

3) Coming back to Frankfurt from Berlin, consider stopping in Erfurt, Bamburg and perhaps Rothenberg Ob Der Tauber (intact walled Medieval City).

Whether an itinerary is "any good" depends on the traveler. Maybe you're asking if it's "doable" independently, which it probably is, if indeed you have reasons for visiting these specific places. But that's the issue with swiping an itinerary from a bus tour company or a guidebook. A trip designed by someone else for someone else will likely be less rewarding than one the traveler designs on their own.

This copied-pasted trip is a reasonable facsimile of Rick Steves' generic 3-week itinerary for Germany - with just a small twist here and there. Some things don't make sense or are less than honest. For "Munich and Bavarian Castles" you will not have "three days exploring the city" if during that stay you'll be "taking a day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle." And, well, it says "castles," which most of us recognize as the plural of "castle" - so which others will you see that day, exactly?? It's incredibly non-specific about all the destinations - you will "explore" them all (that meaningless word is used like 6 or 7 times) but so what? Any place can be explored. A good itinerary would be detailed enough to briefly outline why you should see the place. Adopting such an itinerary or one like Rick's, one that by design was not intended to fit YOU and thus is unlikely to include the sorts of things you yourself will probably enjoy, is a mistake, I think. I'd consider the destinations mere suggestions and do some more reading - then plan your own way to explore what really interests you.

You will be spending long periods of time either in a rail car or on the road with this itinerary. It may work for you.

We lived in Germany for 6 years and have returned for over 20 visits. Much of our planning for a trip involves minimizing time lost to transport. Neither rail cars nor autobahns hold much attraction for us. We would simplify this itinerary.

Good luck in your planning and travels.

I second the suggestions to (1) fly open jaw and (2) Black Forest after Stuttgart.

It looks o.k. to me as long as you aren’t interested in the Rhine castles

Thank you so much for your gratitude. You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, I have already purchased the airfare. I will do more homework to make the itinerary work better. Please provide some suggestions you think will make the 21-day trip more effective. Thanks in advance!

Obviously this is your trip so you should go where you want but the others here have made some good suggestions. I definitely agree that no matter what you do, you should head to the Black Forest before Munich - it makes no sense to do otherwise, as you will be backtracking to a certain extent. I've made a few other suggestions and put them in the itinerary below.

• Arive Frankfurt, sleep in Frankfurt for 2 nights.

• Train to Heidelberg, sleep in Heidelberg for 2 nights. As was noted above, I would skip Stuttgart unless you are a car aficionado. There are many more interesting places in Germany that deserve your attention.

• Train to Black Forest; sleep in Black Forest for 3-4 nights. I recommend Gengenbach as a good base to stay. The town is extremely charming, has a good choice of lodging and restaurants, and is on the main train line, so you can access much of the Black Forest from there. You can also take a day trip to Strasbourg, which is only a 30 minute train ride away. And if you stay here, you will receive a KONUS card, which entitles you to free public transportation within that region.

• Train to Munich, sleep in Munich for 3 nights. My vote would be to skip Neuschwanstein Castle, as it is not authentic, takes a bit of time and effort to get there, and the interior is not really worth the price. There are plenty of other places around there that would be well worth seeing.

• Train to Nuremberg; sleep in Nuremberg for 3 nights. You could easily use Nuremberg as a base to see some very beautiful town in Franconia, such as Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Bamberg, Regensburg and some of the even tinier villages in that area. It will also cut down on the train ride to Dresden, as otherwise, it would be a very long trip from Munich by triqn.

• Train to Dresden; sleep for 2 nights in Dresden

• Train to Berlin; sleep 3 nights in Berlin.

• Train to Frankfurt; sleep 1 night in Frankfurt; fly back to US.