2 Weeks in Germany - need help with Rhine & Mosel / Black Forest

You might want to look at a map. Your itinerary just doesn't flow very well.
You might do better to visit Munich for 4 days and go east to Salzburg for 2 days. I'd skip Hallstatt and head south into the incredibly beautiful Tirolean Alps around Innsbruck. It's easy to get to Fussen from there. The Black Forest is the southwest corner of Germany, and there are other places in the region much more beautiful.
Bacharach is a very small town on the Rhine River NW of Frankfurt, and it's very much out of the way. I'd skip it on this trip. Then you could go up to Rothenberg before heading back into the Munich area to fly home.

We like doing a mix of big cities, and quiet laid back small towns /
pretty areas.

Black Forest: "laid back and pretty" but a sizable detour, and the Rhine/Mosel is more worthwhile on the whole.

Rhine / Mosel: Very "laid back and pretty" for the most part. It's not about choosing one town like Bacharach or Cochem specifically, but about the historical and cultural significance of the region over the centuries. The medieval castles, fortresses, and toll stations, the old-world towns, the dramatic landscapes, the outdoor activities, the river cruises, the wine culture, the footprints of Ancient Romans, and of course the retaking of the Westwall and the Rhine as the end of WW II approached... there's a lot to see and do here, and it's spread out over a fair amount of real estate. Like Berlin, a proper visit means at least 3-4 days in the area, not including the travel time to and from.

Salzburg: You might get away with just one night if you sightsee there on two days.

Rothenburg: 2 nights? A small and insignificant backwater compared with Salzburg. And extremely touristy - its only purpose today is to take in tourists. It was nearly half destroyed by WW II bombs but handsomely rebuilt after the war - not sure why Rick calls it "well-preserved" when so much of it was restored. Rick recommends it but also admits that it's "becoming a medieval theme park." You don't need 2 nights to see the town - a few hours are enough. But you could spend 2-3 nights there (or better yet somewhere nearby that is a bit more normal and laid-back, not so overrun by tourists) since there are lots of other attractive options in the area... Bad Windsheim's open-air museum… also Sommerhausen, Ochsenfurt, and Marktbreit, sleepy old-world river towns north of Rothenburg.... And not far away is one of Germany's nicest big cities (half a million population is big to me) - Nuremberg, which IMHO has a couple of big advantages over Berlin... it's close to your other destinations in Bavaria, and it has a relatively compact center where most of the attractions are located - you can see it in less time, and without using a lot of public transit. Like Berlin, Nuremberg has several WW II sites as well. With 4-5 days in the Rothenburg - Nuremberg region, you would have many great choices in front of you.

So I am going to suggest that instead of the constant checking in and out like a tour bus customer, instead of flying and driving around to so many different places, you stay in no more than FOUR different base towns for the 2 weeks you have...

• Munich alone

• Salzburg/Berchtesgaden/Alps (much more nearby than just Hallstatt!)

• Rhine/Mosel area

• Rothenburg/Nuremberg area

Visit Berlin on some future trip when you can dedicate the time it deserves.

Fuessen is a mostly unnecessary detour that would repeat the mountain experience of the Salzburg area and take you to the very "unlaid-back" experience of visiting Neuschwanstein (for its overcrowded 30-minute tour, not of a true castle, but of a palatial royal residence with a fake castle exterior. Better to visit Nymphenburg Palace in Munich, perhaps, or maybe Herrenchiemsee Palace in Prien - also built by King Ludwig II, it's half way between Munich and Salzburg in a stunning setting, on an island in Lake Chiemsee.)

Looks ok to me. I would forget the Black Forest. I think renting a car is fine, although it can be done with train, although many places on the Romantic Road aren’t accessible by train. Too much driving? I don’t think so. I cycled most of it in about the same number of days.

You are zig-zagging around. You are half-way to Berlin when you are on the Rhein and then you go back down south to Munich again. That makes no sense. Take the train to Berlin from Frankfurt. It only takes 4 hours and if you get your tickets ahead of time, it will cost you a fraction of what a flight will cost plus your train arrives in the middle of the city, instead of outside the city at the airport.

As others have suggested, get out a map and plan your stops in an orderly fashion. Is there something special you want to see in the Black Forest? If not, drop it and spend more time on the Rhine and not only the usual stops. Go to Mainz, Eltville and Eberbach Monastery, Ober-Wesel and St. Goar.

Having visited both Dachau, near Munich and Sachsenhausen near Berlin, I found the exhibits in Sachsenhausen to be better done, as well as being able to go into the original buildings, like the kitchen, barracks, etc. Both are horrific, but this is simply my recommendation.

You actually have THREE trips to Munich, since you say you are flying out of Munich. Why didn't you select an Open Jaw Transatlantic ticket? It costs the same, more or less. Lufthansa offers connections through several of their hubs in Germany, among other providers. (I happen to favor Lufthansa because they partner with United.)

2 days is plenty for the Middle Rhine. I don't think you mention the KD boat ride, which is marginally easier without a car. But as others have said, you are taking an All-American approach with the car rental. It's expensive to park, and there will be plenty of traffic at the peak of the tourist season.

I suggest dropping Fussen and Hallstatt (how many castles does anyone need to see?), and adding time in Salzburg and Berlin. A week in Berlin is not too much. I have taken the train from Frankfurt to Berlin and found it very convenient and comfortable. I missed the chance to see the famous Residenz in Gotha, but that is a personal wish. If you need another place to talk about at cocktail parties (!), the train to Berlin goes right through (or is it just "near") Erfurt, which is just as interesting as Fussen or Hallstatt, maybe.

I don't have an opinion on whether you must see Rothenburg (I haven't been there), but I agree that it is silly to backtrack to the RR and pretend you saw 15 towns in one day of driving. Germany is filled with lovely towns and neat architecture.

Welcome to the Forum!

Is this too crazy?

I think it's a little crazy. :)

But I don't like 1 night and 2 night stays.

I agree with those who have proposed narrowing your focus.

If you end up with an itinerary that can be done by train (e.g., Russ's itinerary), I would encourage you to consider doing your Munich days at the end of your itinerary so that you don't have to move on the last night to position yourself for your flight. You can train to your first destination on your first, jet-lagged day in Germany (but you shouldn't drive there in a jet-lagged state).

2 days is plenty for the Middle Rhine.

I've read some Rick Steves pages that suggest a ridiculously dismissive "Blitz tour" of the Rhine that is accomplished in a matter of hours. OTOH there is at least one tour company I'm aware of that houses guests there for 7 days. So I think it depends on what you want out of your stay.

In the OP's case, a 2-day visit might work for a brief visit. But they are making a long train trip to get there, and if they book only 2 nights, they may have only half a day on Day 1 + the full Day 2. They should plan to spend part of Day 3 there as well if a 2-day itinerary is in the works.

But then why not do as Jo suggests - explore a little more deeply - and make the journey slightly less hectic and worth the travel time and expense? With a 3-4-night stay in a well-chosen base town, both her target towns (Mosel River town of Cochem,Bacharach) and several other nice places could be explored.

Thank you so much for all your replies!
I have dropped Black forest altogether. Now staying longer in Salzburg (with maybe daytrips to Hallstatt / Berchtesgaden). Also now leaving the car in Frankfurt and taking the train to Berlin as suggested.

Any suggestions on where to hire the car from? Directly from Hertz / Avis or are there other cheaper websites? It's a little confusing to figure out exactly what all insurances are needed.

I always suggest that a car in Germany can be more of a hindrance than a help. Trains and local buses are just too easy and fairly inexpensive. Don't forget to add the very high cost of gas in Germany.

I too would drop the Berlin segment, IF you think you'll ever be back. If not, go for it. My wife and I will sometimes do whirlwind trips with the view to go back for longer trips later.

For car rentals I always use AutoEurope. They are a consolidator based in the U.S.

https://www.autoeurope.com/

"Also now leaving the car in Frankfurt and taking the train to Berlin as suggested."

To see Berlin properly, you pretty much need 4 days/night AFTER your arrival day.

I assume Berlin is at the END of your visit. Are you planning to use the car for the Rhine/Mosel just before Berlin? If so, I wouldn't drop the car in Frankfurt. Drop it somewhere closer to your Rhine base or en route to Berlin.

It's not clear what you are going to drop or shortchange in order to use those last 5 days on Berlin. The only thing you mention dropping is the Black Forest, which wasn't included in your already-hectic plan in the first place. Sounds to me more like a road marathon than anything else - too many destinations for the time you have. Think quality time over quantity of check-off items.