11 days in Germany in October

The Rick Steves Germany in 13 days

You can - and need to - design a visit of your own that pleases YOU. Following a tour-bus trek is unncessarily rushed - and unnecessary as well.

And is doing a lot of WW2 stuff great or wearisome?

This is a question you can probably answer for yourself. If you are asking for my personal opinion, YES. It wears you down, teaches you little that you didn't already learn in school, and stereotypes your personal image of Germany using a war that took place 80 years ago. A little goes a long way. That said, I find it interesting to visit certain places. An older coworker of mine fought in the war near Einbeck, which made my visit there personally meaningful. I've found it interesting to visit the Westwall bunkers, and the Remagen Bridge museum on the Rhine.

Rhine cruise: runs through October 20 with KD. October 27 with Bingen-Rüdesheimer. Best segment is Rüdesheim or Bingen to St. Goar. It's a great month for cruising. But the Rhine is much much more than just the cruise and a couple of nights at least are in order.

No need to take a tour in Germany. I lived in Germany for four years. In my opinion, the best areas to Germany to visit are:

1) Rhineland including Strasbourg, France, Black Forrest, Heidelberg, Mainz, Cologne, Rudesheim. Also, take in the areas near the French, Luxembourg, Belgium borders.
2) Bavaria, including Munich, Garmisch/Fussen, Augsburg, the Romantic Road, Berchtesgaden, Salzburg (Austria), Regensburg, Nuremberg.
3) Berlin and the surrounding area, including Dresden.

Thank you Russ, I've been thinking quite a bit about your comments. Your comment about doing so much WW2 that I skew his impression of the present was insightful, and I think you're right that some balance will be good. Also, while he likes history, I don't. ;) And I think you're right about looking for WW2 things that are meaningful to him. For instance I mentioned Cologne and he immediately knew a battle and wondered if he could see the spot, etc.

Geovagriffith, your comments are fitting what I'm realizing, that these are distinct regions with TONS to do in each. I had viewed Germany like a US state, where you might spend a day or two in a region of the state and accomplish most of the major things you wanted to. The more I dig into Germany, the more I find! For instance, I'm digging in on Salzburg and realizing there are ice caves (hello, must!!!) and multiple fortresses.

So I'm thinking right now I'm going to whittle the list to focus on a couple cities. Nuremburg may have to go. If necessary I can chop the Rhine idea. Some of this might have to become a 2025 trip, sigh. I had thought to do France in 2025, so we'll see. I'm going to use G's list to see if I've hit the important things where we are vs. getting dragged all over. The issue will be that pesky Panzer Museum up in the north. It's in Munster, between Hanover and Hamburg. It's on his must list, so I need to figure out the most sensible route and what we hit/skip on the way.

For instance I mentioned Cologne and he immediately knew a battle and
wondered if he could see the spot, etc.

That might be Remagen, just south of Bonn, the place with the museum I found interesting.
https://bruecke-remagen.de/friedensmuseum/?lang=en

The word "sensible" pops out of your posts a few times, possibly reflecting your interest in efficient/practical train journeys. You really can cover a lot of territory in a short time in Germany by train. Munich > Münster could certainly make sense... On the day you leave Munich you could easily get in several hours of Munich sightseeing before a mid-afternoon train trip that includes dinner in the restaurant car, if you like, and puts you in Münster by around 9 pm. You'd be the first ones in line for the Panzermuseum in the morning.

Munich > Rhine takes even less time. 15:28 - 20:06 for example if you overnight in the Rhine Gorge gateway town of Bingen, which has a couple of waterfront hotels right near the docks:

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/06/1a/df/01/nh-bingen.jpg?w=900&h=-1&s=1
https://media-cdn.holidaycheck.com/w_1280,h_720,c_fit,q_80/ugc/images/49ae7b3e-32a5-3d2a-8987-6a0c2650c5d2

You could start the next morning with a cruise from there as early as 9:15.

So I don't think you should necessarily think in terms of cutting out the "east" or the "west" until you've actually taken a close look at the train logistics. You might be able to do more than you think, and, unlike the bus tours, with adequate time in each destination you choose.

You say you're cruising from Trieste, but not where you're ending. That makes a difference. But if you just want 11 days from Munich to Berlin with Munster on the way that's pretty easy.

You should plan on a couple days in Munich, then Nuremberg, Mainz, Koblenz, Munster, and Berlin. I say Mainz to Koblenz because this will let you see the Rhine and the castles at your own pace, you can add a stop or two in there easy. Nuremberg has some good WWII sites if you know where to look, Mainz has everything from Roman times on, Koblenz is the other end of the Rhine valley and has the Eck and Ehrenbreitstein, Munster has the tank museum (and it's really good), and you'll need a couple days in Berlin too. All of this is easy enough by train, and you can do it for 49 euros using the Deutschland Pass, or pay more and travel ICE.

October is wet and rainy, and usually pretty dull as the leaves are gone, but you may get lucky, and then you'll have fall colors. The train from Mainz to Bingen, and from there to Koblenz will give you the same scenery as a boat ride plus the ability to get off, look around any of the towns, and then hop another train, as they go up and down that route every 30 minutes.

It's too late for the Zugspitze, which is only really good when the visibility is unlimited. And it's too early for skiing. Most of the Alpine tourist stuff is closed by OCT. Come over and do that in May.

KGC, I appreciate your suggestions! I'm doing the math on them now to see how it could work. I had suspected it was late to be going to the Zugspitze. You're right, maybe one day we can come in the spring. Can I ask where you stayed or suggest staying for the Tank museum in Munster? That's good to know that it's worth the effort to get to!

We did Rome/Naples last year, so we might not make too much effort looking at Roman history things in Germany. Yes, round trip from Trieste so sailing from Trieste and returning to Trieste. I had a post pondering whether we should go via Venice and the Brenner Pass or up through Slovenia for getting from Trieste to Munich/Salzburg. At this point I'm thinking we'll do the FlixBus if it's safe (which google says it is?) because it's the fastest, most direct option. That would get us into Salzburg by dinner time. We can do a few days in Salzburg then go on to Munich, Nuremburg, etc.

So at this point I'll just do the math (how many days in Salzburg, Munich, etc.) and see where we're at. If there's time, we can head over to the Rhine. If not, we can go directly up to Munster for the tank museum.

I had read about the 49 euro pass, so I'll definitely consider that once we have the itinerary smoothed out. Right now I'm just desperate to get my hotel reservations made.

Russ, thank you your comments were also very helpful!! I didn't realize the trains would have dinner cars, so you're right that makes it easy and convenient to travel the 2nd half of a day. I think I'd be very sad if we didn't go do the river cruising on the Rhine, knowing we're that close. Actually I'm kind of kicking myself that we didn't do it last year when we were in Luxembourg. We drove all around to see the dragon's teeth, the Maginot line, etc. so we were pretty close. Oh well.

I'll ask ds if that battle at Remegan is the one he was thinking of. I had that Peace Museum marked to show to him, so we'll see what he thinks. There's also a famous tank battle that went down right in Cologne. I found an audio tour of it. I think he mentioned having watched the video footage.

Well thank you!! Getting the bit that the Zugspitze is not a good plan for October makes it easier. We can skip anything we would have done over there (the gorge, the alpine slide, etc) and just focus on Salzburg and moving north. I think it's coming together. Doubtless I'll have more questions but at least I can rough in an itinerary now.

There was a movie ‘The Bridge at Remagen’ (1969) that your son should watch if he hasn’t already.

I would concentrate on the route from Salzburg ( actually Werfen where the amazing ice caves are ) thru Munich, Nuremberg to Berlin. Then a detour to the Panzer museum and back to Berlin Save the rest for another trip

Since there is an interest in WWII, check out a site named thirdreichruins.com It has many photos of places you mentioned that were taken during or shortly after the war. It then has photos of the same places taken in more modern times. Some very interesting contrasts.

Don't discount the north itself. It is not often visited and certainly under appreciated by foreigners, but it is a truly amazing place.

Since there is an interest in WWII, check out a site named thirdreichruins.com It has many photos of places you mentioned that were taken during or shortly after the war. It then has photos of the same places taken in more modern times. Some very interesting contrasts.

Thank you, I'll look for that!

There was a movie ‘The Bridge at Remagen’ (1969) that your son should watch if he hasn’t already.
I would concentrate on the route from Salzburg ( actually Werfen where the amazing ice caves are ) thru Munich, Nuremberg to Berlin. Then a detour to the Panzer museum and back to Berlin Save the rest for another trip

Yes, it's on my list to have him watch. So I made the reservations for Salzburg, 5 nights. That gives us enough time to hit the ice caves, the hohenwerften with the falconry, do a cooking class, etc. It seems like a chilled place that we'll enjoy, so I didn't see a need to rush. I've made our reservations for tours in Munich, and I'm thinking one full day there. It's enough time to do the Marianplatz when we get in then a 3rd Reich tour and Dachau tour the next day and scoot on. At least that was my theory.

I'm struggling on the Nuremburg thing. I'm not totally sure it will interest him and it doesn't interest me. And it's sort of somber, and you can see it on video if you want. To go to the court room just isn't calling to me and I doubt it will to him. In fact, I asked him if he'd rather do Nuremburg (nazi rally grounds and the court room) vs. a medieval town, and he said medieval. Am I missing something we'd really like there?

Ok, so the math. I have four full days in play here with a 5th final day being a mid-afternoon flight out of Berlin. So 4 days to play with. I know I want at least one full day in Berlin and I thought maybe to do 2 full days in Berlin. That would give us time to go to Potsdam. Is that worth doing? It seemed kind of peaceful and unique. Ds is not much for cities honestly, so whatever we do has to be very interesting. He's not one of those people who just wanders around big cities and thinks it's fun.

So if Berlin is 2 days and the tank museum (train up, museum, train to Berlin) is a full day, so that leaves 1 day of discretion. That discretion day could go to Nuremburg or any other town relatively on the way to Hanover that would be interesting. Or we could shove on to the tank museum, skip Nuremburg, and do 3 days in Berlin. Or we could say Potsdam isn't worth doing, trim Berlin to 1 day, and have 2 days to do something before the tank museum.

Option 1: 2 days in Berlin, 1 day at the tank museum, 1 day at a choice city between munich and hanover.
Option 2: 3 Days in Berlin, 1 day at the tank museum.
Option 3: 1 Day in Berlin, 1 day at the tank museum, 2 days of choice between munich and hanover.

See anything there?

Stw1b,
Regarding your comment about cold weather in October, I have spent several October weeks in Bavaria over the years. I can say that many days in Munich have been sunny. I enjoy strolling around flea markets. I don't recall any that I missed due to rain/cold weather, typically spending most of the day on Fridays and Saturdays at flea markets. I cannot speak to the weather in the north of Germany. I have also seen some glorious fall color in the trees. One year, of course, can be different from another.

I plan to be in the Zugspitze area in mid-October this year. We are hoping to go up the Zugspitze and are not concerned re the weather being too cold. Rain, clouds and fog would be a concern and we would not spend the time and money to make the day trip. But we have a week in the area. There are many walks we hope to take too. In 2019 we took a walk near a lake close to Mittenwald on a sunny day after eating lunch on the patio of a restaurant next to the lake.

Have fun planning and a wonderful trip!

Traveler Girl

I was just in Remagen this past Saturday and, if you come by train, walk to the river and then down the river walk to the museum. It's a nice walk, paved, with lot's of places to stop, and only about 1k. If you drive you'll have to park about 100 yards up from the river and walk down.

The tank duel was right by the Cathedral in Cologne, and you can find that easy enough.

If you skip Nuremberg (which is a very pretty place even without the WWII stuff) you might consider staying overnight at Castle Rheinfels on the Rhine at St Goar? That should give you some 13th Century history, and it's a very nice place.

You might also consider visiting the Red Bull Museum (Hanger 7) while you're in Salzburg.

Hi travelergirl and KGC, thank you for your feedback! I decided some of my ideas that were farther out needed to wait for another year so we could focus our itinerary. I finally have all the hotels made, so we're locked in.

Salzburg-5 nights
Munich-1 night
Uelzen-1 night
Berlin-4 nights

We'll probably leave Salzburg sometime mid-day to have a bit extra time in Munich. Really though, we're just trying to do Dachau, a 3rd Reich tour, the Marianplatz, and keep moving. Uelzen is just 30 minutes from the Panzer museum, so we're going to do that long train ride (6pm-11pm, Munich to Uelzen), hit the hay, and wake up the next morning ready to go look at tanks. We traded off Nuremburg for more time in Berlin. I think we're going to do a day trip to Spandau to see their WW2 planes and the citadel, which leaves two days for the underground and walking tours, trying foods, etc.

There's definitely another long tour through Germany to hit more of the parts we aren't even coming close to this time, sigh. I also spent a little extra on hotels this time to see if we could be a bit more comfortable. In the past we've traveled pretty economically, but sometimes the cities are more comfortable with a more comfortable hotel. We'll see how that works out.

Thanks for all the help!!! :)

You can do a virtual tour through the Panzer Museum

https://3d-tour.linsenspektrum.de/de/tour/deutsches-panzermuseum

Currywurst is something to eat in Berlin. it was invented there. Don't get it in a sit down place, look for an Imbiss (snack bar/trailer). For a WWII buff you may want to go look at the Flakturm (anti-aircraft tower).

Currywurst is something to eat in Berlin. it was invented there. Don't get it in a sit down place, look for an Imbiss (snack bar/trailer). For a WWII buff you may want to go look at the Flakturm (anti-aircraft tower).

Thanks KGC, currywurst, odd as it sounds haha, is on the list. I looked at the Flak tower tour with the Berlin Underground tours, but you have to be 18. Is there a portion my teen son can do? I'll look into it. I just found some pictures of the outside and it's quite astonishing. If we can't tour it completely now, maybe we come back in a couple years when he's 18. :)

KGC or anyone else, have you done the Saumur in France? That's another major tank museum that was on my ds' hit list. I was thinking about maybe France next year and then come back to Germany in another year or two to do that Reformation/medieval/Rhine loop. I just wondered if anyone who had done the Panzer museum in Germany thought the Saumur was worth going to also.

I have not been to Musée des Blindés, but a couple of the guys I work with and I are planning that trip for later this summer. Right after we get to the Technical Museum in Sinsheim. Which means probably in July or August after the 4th weekend.

Another place added to my list! :)