ww1 sites

Amy,

Could you clarify the post a bit? World War I sites are towards the northeastern portion of France. Are you asking us what to take out of your current plans to replace with travels to the northeast of France or are you asking us if your current plans as written are too hectic?

Thanks,

Matt

I just returned from Europe last week , having spent about ten days in Flanders and The Somme during my trip . Based on your allotted time , I do not think there is any way to add some of the Great War sites , you barely have the time to address your program as it stands . All of these places take time to do them justice and rushing through will leave you hassled and dissatisfied . Save Northeastern France for your next visit

Good question Matt -- I think I am trying to figure out if I can fit it in. But as Steven mentioned, it is sounding like my eyes are just too big for my stomach on this visit.

I would drop returning to Paris for 2 nights at the end.

How about keeping the car from Normandy, driving to Amboise (stopping at Mt St-Michel on the way) and add a night in the Loire, then driving to Château-Thierry for one night and visiting Belleau Wood (WW1 Marines battlefield) before returning the car at CDG only one hour away.

Amy,

Depending on ease of transportation, you could also look at visiting WW-I sites in Belgium, in the vicinity of Ypres. There's an American cemetery in that area, although I can't remember the exact location.

As to WW1 sites: although there was a small American contribution to the front north of Paris where the British, Canadians, Australians and British imperial forces fought (Flanders, Arras, Somme) American forces fought primarily with the French army mostly east of Paris between Château-Thierry and Verdun (esp west and south of Verdun, Argonne and St-Mihiel respectively). So you have to narrow down what you want to see. The largest American cemetery in Europe is in the Argonne (not in Normandy).

The Western Front stretched from the sea on the Belgian coast through to the Swiss frontier, and there are memorials etc all along. My recommendation is from experience and also from being British, our theatre was the area north of Paris and into Belgium.

There is a good museum, the Historial de la Grande Guerre, in Peronne, in the Somme (80). Also the main Commonwealth memorial at Thiepval also in the Somme. The Canadian memorial at Vimy Ridge should not be missed, my great great uncle, after whom several boys in our family have been named since then, is listed in one of the Commonwealth War Grave cemeteries near by in the region Nord-Pas de Calais. Near Thiepval are memorials for Newfoundland, New Zealand and South African soldiers.

I would suggest the Somme is somewhere to look if you want to see. Driving along the A1 Autoroute du Nord brings a tear to my eye passing the sign saying 'Somme' as you enter the departement.

I will tag on to MC's post . We visited Thiepval while in The Somme and were able to find the memorial listing for George Butterworth , the British composer killed by a sniper and whose body was one of over 72,000 Commonwealth soldiers never recovered , he was barely thirty one . He left behind this beautiful composition , that serves as an anthem to the British sacrifice in the Great War . You don't , as I have previously stated , have time to visit this area , much less Ypres , on this trip . When you do return , you should go to these places . They honor the British , French , and Belgian soldiers who paid a dear price for fighting in this horrendous and unnecessary war . Listen here to Butterworth's gorgeous composition . " The Banks of Greenwillow " https://youtu.be/AUsisFkLCxo

Thank you so much for sharing that.

I don't really have a preference for it being a site where Americans were. I am really interested in any of the sites. I have had Vimy Ridge suggested to me as well. My brother has been there before and was very moved by it.

Hi,

If you intend to focus on WW 1 sites, I suggest dropping Normandy. I agree with mg and Steven above. Information on those places they cite can be gotten at the City Hall in Arras...lots of it. The rental car companies are left of the Arras train station as you exit. Going out to Vimy you need a car. Going to Vimy from Arras you have to pass through the village of Neuville St Vlaast, which has WW 1 museums and sites too.

I don't suggest whipping through Neuville St Vlaast just to get to Vimy quicker. The big British military cemetery is at the edge of Arras, ca one hour walk from the train station, next to the French Army caserne, which is not open to the public. Arras was the General HQ for British Army in France. Walk around the centre ville and you'll see plaques testifying to 1940 (when they were driven out) and the liberation of the city by the Welsh Guards in 1944.

Depending on how many days you intend to use tracking down the war sites, do a day trip from Arras to Amiens, ie basically you're driving to the Somme and its horrific battlefields evidenced by the countryside dotted by British and Commonwealth cemeteries set off by a tall white cross. There is a lot to track down and see on the war sites...only a matter of time and energy you devote to it.

Hi,

part 2 here...there is also a German site too in northern France if you're into that too.

Well I doubt that the Belgians and French feel fighting WW1 was unnecessary-- they were invaded after all, not exactly a simple misunderstanding.

OP: with a family you really want the car the entire time you are outside Paris for ease, cost savings, and expediency. It's the only way to cram all you want to see into your short time frame.

Although Belleau Wood lacks the glamor of say the Somme, it is the site of the first US victory in WW1 and also the site of the first German defeat in their spring 1918 offensive. It is also the only WW1 battlefield you can squeeze into your current itinerary due to its close proximity to CDG airport.

" Well I doubt that the Belgians and French feel fighting WW1 was unnecessary-- they were invaded after all, not exactly a simple misunderstanding " Sorry , but you missed my point . My reference to the war being unnecessary was aimed at those in the governments of Germany , Austria - Hungary , and Russia ( among others ) , who , had cooler and more considered thought prevailed in the years prior to 1914 , were responsible for this horrible conflict .

Do any of these sites have very visible reminders of war such as trenches, etc.? I am just thinking that it might help my kids to understand visually what it was like and the gravity of the situation.

Keith , A wonderful and informative website , my education continues , Thanks

Hi,

"...any visible reminders of the war....?" Yes, go to Vimy to see the large Canadian monument. The grounds in that vicinity, the memorial area, show the some trenches, signs appear in English and French to stay off them since there still could be old shells in the soil. There are also tours given in French and English on the battle of Vimy Ridge.

@ Steven...I agree on Russia, which of the Great Powers bears number one responsibility for the general European war. What Russian strategic national interest was at stake in 1914 for them to risk the lives of a generation of young men and the stability of the monarchy? Credibility? Keep in mind that Russia was the first of the Great Powers to set off the inflexibility of the alliance system, the timetable war, by ordering general mobilisation, after cheating for a week in that regard. See "The Russian Origins of WW 1" ...Sean McK... (can't recall his last name exactly) makes a pretty compelling and damning case.

See the Imperial War Museum in London at Lambeth North where in one of the WW 1 exhibits packed with realia (newspaper headlines, paintings, weapons, etc) there is a bright red wooden plaque...very conspicuous, for which the IWM offers no explanation. That red plaque is a Russian general mobilisation order plaque tacked up in villages/towns. The IWM is the only museum where I've seen the "red wooden plaque" but I've not been to the big WW 1 museums in France...in Peronne and Mieux.

part 2 ....@ Steven...I don't accept the argument that Austria-Hungary was pushing for a general European war as revealed through the policy pursued by its Foreign Minister, localised war ..yes with Serbia. Then one could argue: could that be morally justified? Or, as M. MacMillan asserts, in 1914 there were other choices than war for all the countries. Not for Austria-Huingary.

Fred , after I finish " The Sleepwalkers " , we will need to talk , this gets more interesting by the moment . Just two short comments - Russia , one of the worst aspects in that regard was power in the hands of Nicholas who , by all accounts , was totally inept in the extreme , just one factor , of course . In the case of Austria - Hungary , true , they may not have been trying to pursue a European war , but their insensitivity in matters like the annexation of Bosnia , the general ineptitude of Franz Joseph , and many other factors ( some within their control , some not ) , did contribute to the ultimate outcome . We visited The Imperial War Museum a year ago just when the Great War Exhibition opened ( Shortly after I read the MacMillan book ) , and went back a second time while in London . I'm excited about the Clark book - As you say , the premises of such writing , are indeed variable , depending on the author .

We start our trip off in London actually, and take the Eurostar to Paris. I was going back and forth on going to the imperial war museum, but now I am definitely going to fit it in!

Since your travel time is tight, you might compromise on the First World War visits by taking a jaunt to the relatively new Museum of the Great War, about 40 minutes by train from Gare de l'Est in Paris. It concentrates on day-to-day experiences of WW1 rather than sweeping politics and strategies. As a modern-style museum it offers plenty of interactive education for young folk. Some of it is only in French but the hands-on displays can by understood by all. It's a pleasant town, too. maybe for lunch before visiting the museum on the outskirts. http://www.museedelagrandeguerre.eu/en/preparing_your_visit

@ Steven....Very true about Nicholas II, wrong guy for the wrong job at the wrong time in history, plus he never wanted the job in the first place. "Insensitivity on the annexation of Bosnia"...well, one could look at it that way as regards to Austria. I don't. Like it or not, the Great Powers set the political tone for Europe. Austria-Hungary had been given permission, so to speak, by the Great Powers at the Congress of Berlin to annex Bosnia-Herzegovina, backed by subsequent agreements to that effect with Russia, where the tacit acquiescence of Russia had been obtained. But then one might ask what about the Serbia and its reaction? Little countries like the Serbs in this matter did not count, no one cared for their sensitivities (may not be a very moral position but this was part of Great Power politics), unless they had a Great Power supporting them. And, that Great Power could only be Russia theoretically.

Here are some maps for you to browse:

Amboise to Belleau Wood
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Amboise,+France/Aisne-Marne+American+Cemetery,+Belleau+Wood+American+Monument,+D82,+02400+Belleau/@48.3048497,1.3819249,8.25z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x47fcb59a6f0f2835:0x40dc8d705389400!2m2!1d0.984407!2d47.413326!1m5!1m1!1s0x47e8ec0666542f6d:0xfc8ad1a2006d6202!2m2!1d3.2917543!2d49.0784183

Belleau Wood to CDG airport
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Aisne-Marne+American+Cemetery,+Belleau+Wood+American+Monument,+D82,+02400+Belleau/Charles+de+Gaulle+Airport,+95700+Roissy-en-France,+France/@48.9891222,2.7678697,10.5z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x47e8ec0666542f6d:0xfc8ad1a2006d6202!2m2!1d3.2917543!2d49.0784183!1m5!1m1!1s0x47e63e038e4ccf5b:0x42be0982f5ba62c!2m2!1d2.5479245!2d49.0096906

If you are insisting to go by train, you will probably have to scale back your itinerary. Also it's not clear how you will visit the chateaux and what the cost of that will be without a car.

You can see trenches at the Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial near Albert.
The Somme 1916 Museum is in Albert and is located in tunnels used as air raid
shelters in WW2.