Why I won't be returning to France

Many items on the list do ring true. They are not exclusive to France, though (except 4 and 7 perhaps)...
What is really outrageous is the way you were treated at the border; "normally" they should not have prevented you from leaving as far as I can read regarding the latest rules.
Sorry you've lost so much money!

I can certainly understand your frustration, but there is no decree from the French government barring your return to the UK if you are a UK national (and I assume you are not). If your intention was to travel to the UK for tourism, yes, the border was closed on the 18th, which does not preclude your traveling there from some 3rd country.

French government policies are outlined here, and this site is continuously updated as conditions change:

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel#from1

The last major change was 18 December when the French/UK borders were closed with exceptions noted in the list of compelling reasons found here:

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/128184/1023265/file/16-06-2021-attestation-de-deplacement-depuis-la-france-metropolitaine-orange-version-anglaise.docx

I am sorry this has occurred, but the local and facebook are perhaps not the best sources for last minute news from the government. Consult the official French government websites for the latest information (links above).

Glad you got back home. Most of us were wondering how things worked out on Monday. Happy you at least found openings on a flight out.

Did you wind up overstaying your 90 days? And repercussions with that?

I paid for a Eurostar from Brussels to London on Tuesday 12/21 (today). I was aware that Belgium also has entrance requirements, but if we had a ticket in hand, and were transiting through Belgium to another country we were allowed 48 hours, This took 30-40 minutes, after the Eurostar line. Then a full hour waiting for the SCNF office at temps so cold that I put on my winter gloves. We got the first train out, for about 30 minutes later, and were on our way to Brussels. My son-in-law in London bought some airline tickets from Brussels to London for that night. We arrived in Brussels-Midi and just changed platforms and took first train to the airport.

One little peculiarity of Brussels airport is that you have to show your ticket to exit of the train area but neither my Thalysis TGV ticket nor my Eurail pass (on my phone) would open the gate. Finally a worker came over and told us that we have to pay 11 eu for the two of us as an entrance fee to the airport.

So we had dinner in the airport - our first real meal of the day. No one knew we had had a horrendous day, but everyone from the airline ticket desk, to the police border control to the restaurant were super nice. The restaurant gave us a free beer and upgraded desert.

Another tip : When entering UK you need to go through an extensive Locator form online. When we changed from Eurostar to Airline, I needed to create an entirely new form for each of us and answer all the questions again (including the code number for our Covid tests on arrival). It was a hassle. But the good news was that when we arrived in UK, we just scanned our passports in a machine like in JFK airport and that was it, we were in the UK - no one checked our papers or bags or anything.

Another tip : I got the covid test at a tent in front of the Gare du Nord, and it was no waiting (although needed to pay cash 25 eu each - although that price changes daily). At the pharmacies there were always lines of people for testing - and it would have taken a lot longer for the same test.

Once you get the result you can export it to the wallet if you have the French health app as we do. But I also downloaded it as a pdf and then uploaded that to the Notes app on my iPhone. I did the same thing with the UK Locator form - downloaded a PDF and uploaded to a note in the Notes app. That way I had everything on my phone ready to show - even without internet.

And let me emphasize that most people in France seemed to be pretty reasonable and nice. But it seemed at all the crucial times, they were pretty indifferent.

From train strikes to arbitrary border closures, I wonder about their attitudes. I saw toddlers in the Christmas markets sobbing and crying indefinitely while their parents seemed indifferent and let them cry. I was entering a market in Selestat and saw a French lady go through the little gate to enter and let it slam right into the face of her 3 year old who started crying and she was not the least apologetic and seemed to be lecturing the toddler. We had teens/college age kids cut in front of us getting into trains, or walk right in front of us while taking a picture.

I have spent several years learning to speak French, and contrary to popular sentiment it is not a magic key that opens up a nicer attitude. Some times they get slightly annoyed because they can speak English better than I can speak French, or just get annoyed and call over a coworker who knows English.

Another disillusionment is that many of these old buildings are heavily reconstructed. I wonder if I am seeing any history at all at times. At times you score with really excellent food, but most of the time, every restaurant in town has the same menu. And you can't eat anyway because is 12:30 and they are full.

Its like an infatuation with an attractive person holding some romantic ideals. But as you get to know the real person. you see an entire different reality.

I think Rick should get over to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, India, etc. It could really expand his business.

Come to Texas.................

RailRider,

What a horrible experience and terrible ending to your trip! I am so sorry this happened to you.

Plus, this does not bode well for my son's ability to travel from Paris to London to get on his London- Houston flight home!

What a mess!!!!!!!!!

I understand your frustration and sometimes it feels good to vent.

However, most of what you write could be about the US. Angry drivers cutting you off-come to the DC's Beltway.

Angry people are all over the US-the pandemic is not helping and is exacerbating mental illness.

Unhelpful workers-Ride the DC Metro lately?

Crime is up everywhere-in my suburban town-robberies, cars stolen from gas stations and smash and grabs are at their highest level in years.

As to the French/UK debate-not going there except that many other countries are prohibiting UK citizens traveling.

I've felt the same about the UK. I used to love it but had a horrible experience there the last time which made me not want to return for a while. Take care.

ftr, antigen tests have been 25E for months, the price doesn't change daily.

and democracy is ugly, strikes happen. i'll go to France tomorrow if I could.

Covid, however, is making everything more difficult, across the board.

Re # 4: ever try to get dinner in Spain before 8 or 8:30?
I’m not doubting your experience, but the pandemic is, in many ways, bringing out the worst in people, especially in workers who deal with the often irate members of the public. Re #3: I now regularly see drivers do highly illegal maneuvers like left turns on red lights, or passing on the right via the shoulder of a busy freeway. Re #7: We had a pretty awful experience flying United from Boston to S.F. last summer, mostly because of the personnel’s total indifference to the needs of the passengers. Finally, I can only say that our experience with French people has been that they have been, for the most part, kind and helpful.

pay cash 25 eu each - although that price changes daily

The Antigen testing price has been 25€ for some time. I have not read any recent reports of anyone paying more.

people in France seemed to be pretty reasonable and nice. But it seemed at all the crucial times, they were pretty indifferent.

I have found people in France are always indifferent. When something goes wrong, it's your problem.

I have spent several years learning to speak French, and contrary to popular sentiment it is not a magic key that opens up a nicer attitude.

Absolutely correct. I see this misconception written over and over again. If you are an obvious foreigner, we are all, and you speak French fluently with a manageable accent, a Frenchman might make note. Otherwise, they really don’t care about your efforts to learn a few phrases.

Another disillusionment is that many of these old buildings are heavily reconstructed.

Very true. At least they make every effort to keep the facades.

At times you score with really excellent food, but most of the time, every restaurant in town has the same menu.

I look at this a bit differently. I go to a restaurant to enjoy the talent in the kitchen. If a restaurant is just a place to eat, I prefer to cook myself. There are far too many restaurants in France that reheat precooked dinners and charge enormous prices. For the curious, take a look at www.metro.fr. I refer to these eating establishments as tourist class restaurants and in Paris, there are hundreds of places like this, many of them recommended over and over on this forum.

RailRider - hopefully, with time, you will have a change of heart and return. Nowhere is perfect, enjoy the best each location on the map has to offer.

RailRider,
I'm so sorry you had a bad experience. However, I'm envious of your troubles as you got to go to France this year and I didn't. Remember mishaps make the best stories. Vive la France!

Right on Heather!

I could never imagine that France would close their border to people exiting France.

Except that they did this for several months earlier this year, so it wouldn't have taken a lot of imagination to come up with.

Except that they did this for several months earlier this year

If I remember correctly, it was from February through late May.

I'm sure they will really miss you.

Janet, my sentiment exactly.

It looks as if you created a cliffhanger of an itinerary (dancing on the edge of your Schengen window) and then you are frustrated at bureaucratic interference with your imagined perfect solution.

Welcome to France. Welcome to most countries, I suspect.

But France takes some attitude adjustment, no doubt about that. My wife and I have lived here for nearly a decade and every few weeks or so we encounter a puzzling situation that, once we figure it out, we realize the protagonists in our drama had the attitude that, "You're just supposed to know."

And tourists... and visitors... and non-residents... and recently-moved residents, often don't know.

It's part of the charm of France, and to get by one has to be a duck, and let those particular drops of rain roll off one's back.

Or else you'll drive yourself crazy.

They did close the border, but my husband and I flew back to our US residence in February during the border closure. People could leave if going to their primary residence. We paid € to change our tickets, as we did in March 2020. In fact we've thrown a lot of $$ and €€ at this pandemic, five ticket changes, nonrefundable hotel in Dubai. Stuff happens. When there's a problem, it's going to cost. I don't get excited about it, I make my decisions and move fast, choose not to dwell on the money, and don't look back.

Sammy's post has hit the nail on the head. But it's not fun when we are banging our heads against a wall trying to figure out a system. But once we get to the end of the process, we can often look back and see some sort of logic in the way a system has been constructed and why we had to jump through so many baffling hoops. Bienvenue en France.

And tourists... and visitors... and non-residents... and
recently-moved residents, often don't know.

And all of this is even more so in the time of coronavirus. I work in an office with a non-German colleague who is not yet here for long, and who cannot speak much German. I translate a lot of things for him and send updates about local news, but I honestly do not know how he has gotten all the necessary information over the last 22 months, as rules have rapidly changed and such.

It has actually been something I have thought about relatively often as I have seen international tourists return to Europe: how do they possibly keep up-to-date with the endless rounds of changes and adjustments that have become rather the norm for us?

Obviously, as this story demonstrates, it can be quite difficult.

Zara, like your office mate, I wonder how those who speak low-level French in the ex-pat community in France function. Returning to France was at times baffling and complicated even for us, and we're bilingual dual nationals. It's just different.

The French sum many things up perfectly with "c'est compliqué."

Bets, yes! I am German and have not left Europe since the start of the coronavirus situation, and I genuinely have trouble keeping on the newest information about changes here, and only really do it partly through family and friends who pass updates along on WhatsApp and so on.

And, so much of the information about the pandemic is really not made or distributed well for non-residents/those who do not speak the language well (which is actually a real problem given the diversity of our countries today, but that is a side issue). I think this will be a continuing problem for tourists, actually, insofar as despite the importance of tourism to some economic sectors in some parts of Europe, the main target audience of covid-related information is indeed and logically enough residents.

OP you were near Germany when you heard about the travel ban? Why did you go to Paris - why didn't you go to Germany or the Netherlands and get a ferry or flight from one of those countries?

I am sorry you have had this reaction. C’est la vie! I have had the opposite experiences in France, after various visits in the last 48 years. When I commented about how lovely I have always found people in France, my daughter, who lived and worked in France for 1 1/2 years, said that “when arrogance is put on display by someone, the French know how to put them in their place…hence their unfortunate reputation, but really they are very nice”. I would also remind you that you chose to travel during a world-wide pandemic, where naturally the atmosphere is stressful, different, forever changing, and yes, tourists would be low in priority for people in service. You should have taken a lesson from your LA palm trees…bend with the wind.

Our experience with eating in France, back in the day (on a budget of course) was to dine at Moroccan restaurants. The proprietors are very hospitable, the food is great, and reservations aren't required. They were patient with us and didn't make fun of my high school French. What's not to like?

I will have to admit that the only place I have ever had consistently bad food, been approached by a pick pocket, and have been treated rudely enough for it to register; was Paris. But for some reason, I enjoy Paris a lot. But I do get your comments and suspect that they are as true as you relate.

I have been in Europe now for 10 weeks and have learned a lot about traveling in the days of Covid.

I now say my plans are no longer written in pen but written in pencil. Plans will undoubtably change and we must be ready for that.

My plans changed drastically. Fortunately, I did not make any real non-refundable reservations so my losses were minimum. That doesn't mean the changes didn't cost me.

Taveling in these times, where rules can change in the blink of an eye, is not for the inexperienced or those who get flustered if their original plans are thrown out the window.

I now travel with contingency plans. I know what my options are prior to travel. As an example, I am traveling tomorrow from Scotland to London. There is already word out that dozens of trains are being cancelled due to Covid related staff shortages. So, I know what other trains I can take as well as the flight schedule. If the trains are a mess, I'll head to the airport. I might have to eat my train ticket but that's one of the risks we take traveling during these times.

So, if anyhting, we can learn from this post that being prepared for anything is even more important during Covid than it is during normal times.

Reading this rant I wonder if you actually live in the US

Aggressive drivers? Don't come to Atlanta :) We make the French look mild (and of course if someone here doesn't like your driving style they might just shoot you instead of honking! )

Restaurants closed. Just saw a story this morning on restaurants closed because of Covid. People who had reservations for special meals over the holiday are cancelled at the last minute because the restaurant doesn't have the staffing.

As for the border closing... that's just a HUGE risk you take now.

I was looking at France and Spain for next year, but have decided that for the next few years it's one country only travel. But I agree that if you were in Germany and the border was closed, why did you go to France? Just to complicate things? Seriously in this time you can't be tied to the tickets/agenda you just have to change plans.

I was in Paris a few years ago when the British and French were fighting over Brexit. For reasons I don't understand you could not get through immigration at Gare du Nord. (I read the reasons, but...) Anyway, after quickly realizing that "this isn't going to work" I purchased new train tickets to Brussels and on to London. It wasn't cheap but.... Of course I also had allowed time in my schedule for something to go wrong. So when I could not get on my train to London I had LOTS of time to adjust. For anyone who is going to city X to fly home I feel like you need to be there about 24 hours in advance. I don't know what the OPs original connections were but when i was at Gare du Nord there was an hysterical American telling the French off because if she did not catch the 8 AM train. she would not be able to get to the airport in time for her flight home...- the French were not impressed and were not going to move her to the front of the lines as she wanted. NOTE: I was in the line for the 10 AM train, it was 7. The lines for trains before me had not even started processing. The SNCF guy told me that the line would be a minimum of 4 hours. He told me that "Ms Hysterical" was unlikely to get through the line before 11 which at best would put her and her family on a midday train. What they were doing was processing in order and shoving them on trains, but due to space at some point the train would leave with or without passengers and you might or might not get on the next one! that's when I pulled out my phone and bailed. The SNCF guy was very nice to me, I admit he was over Ms. Hysterical LOL! Some of us tried to help her but she wouldn't listen to anyone so.... she probably missed her flight)
For anyone planning a trip now when they rules change you have to be flexible. I recently helped a friend get her kid home from Europe. And we got creative and got it done on time and with just a few hundred dollars extra as opposed to the "thousands" if the kid had missed the flight home. Yep, there were a few creative train rides involved but...

And sadly, you could wind up writing this same rant for anyplace you go now.

I will keep traveling to France because my experience has been very different than yours

Hi RailRider, I'm so sorry for your experience! We just returned from France on Dec. 11, so I can appreciate how stressful travel during this time can be. However, I'd like to provide our own experience, for reference of anyone who may be hesitating to go to France after reading your post. I can fully understand how frustrated you are - I had a negative experience in Spain several years ago that temporarily soured my vacation, but in retrospect, I realized that bad things or inconveniences can happen anywhere, in any country, and that one bad moment does not taint an entire country.

Our experience in France was overwhelmingly positive.

We were in France for 24 nights, from Nov 18 through Dec 11. We intentionally planned this trip to be in one country only, fully knowing that covid changes could happen at any time, and being prepared (financially and mentally) to make changes instantly. We made almost no nonrefundable reservations (the ones we did make, like museum tickets, we were prepared to eat if necessary), and budgeted extra time on either side or our trip in the event of delays or cancellations or if we tested positive. Fortunately, we left just as omicron was ramping up, and our trip went smoothly. The only change for us was the US testing requirement going from 3 days to 1 day.

We had no issues with pickpockets and never felt uncomfortable (including in Paris). I don't wear a money belt, but I am intentional about having my hand on my bag at all times, especially in crowded or touristy areas. My husband wears his wallet in his front pocket and keeps his hand on it when on the metro or in crowds. We avoided leaving our phones out on tables or trains, where they could easily be swiped by someone walking. There were the typical pickpockets at major sites (Louvre, Eiffel Tower) asking people to sign some "petition", but they disbursed as soon as we said "no".

We rented a car that we used for a week in Burgundy and Alsace. Occasionally, there were drivers behind us who wanted to go faster than we wanted to go, so we just pulled off to the side when we could. But no one ever honked or was at all aggressive. Actually, only once did we ever hear anyone honk (not at us), and it was a friendly "you may not see me so I'll honk" kind of situation.

Traveling with a 4 year old, we are acutely aware of mealtimes and his need to eat on a schedule. We found that restaurants generally opened for lunch at 12, and as long as we arrived before 12:30, we never had a problem finding a restaurant with availability. It seemed like locals tended to arrive around 12:45 or 1. So of course if you are trying to each when everyone else is trying to eat, you may find yourself being turned away. However, by using a small amount of foresight, we easily avoided the problem.

I know several local restaurants here in the US that close for weeks at a time, in order to take much-needed vacation. Granted, they are family-run and not large chains like the Olive Garden, so maybe that's the distinction. In France, we found that Google generally had correct opening and closing times for restaurants, so in the event that there was a specific restaurant we wanted to visit, we took 30 seconds to look it up and verify that it was in fact open.

The "attitude problem" you describe seems to me to not be an extremely broad and unfair generalization, and in not way limited to France. Have you ever been to the DMV, the post office, or any other government office in the US? Even at my local grocery store deli counter, I experience a similar situation more often than not.

I'd say we can generally agree to disagree. France is not the best destination for everybody, as Kerouac aptly stated. I have a friend who loves Dubai, but that's not a place I would visit even if I received a voucher for an all-expenses paid trip. Different strokes (and vacations) for different folks.

As Kerouac2 said further up, France is not the best destination for everybody. You don't want to go bo back then it is what it is. I've been to a couple of places that I have vowed never to return to -- chief among them for me is the entire state of Ohio so I get it. Sometimes, you just get tired of the the issues that arise in a certain place. You vented and got it off your chest: the post is not going to convince anyone to go to France or keep anyone who wants to go from going but I'm sure you felt better after posting it and that's great.