Whirlwind France Itin

Joe - I think this is way too much. Currently, what you are planning to see are highways and train stations. I would pick one or two regions (depending on how close they are together) and Paris. You could add in a full day in Reims between the Alsace and Paris.

I agree with Mollie. This is beyond whirlwind.

Even at your record speed this is by no means "most of France." but only a tiny portion seen in a whirl. The only thing going for you in this plan is long daylight hours in July. This is also the height of the tourist season so crowds might keep you from seeing your desireds. Try all of this at your own risk and be prepared to be frustrated As we do not travel in the same "rhythm" I wouldn't presume to give you advice . . .except to wish you good luck.

Going from the Louve in the morning and then to Reims in the afternoon may be not worth it

Are you just planning to see Mont Saint Michel from the road or are you going inside to visit which is hot crowded in summer and involves a lot of stairs.

I can say is that you can take a bus from Nimes to Pont Du Gard real easy and you just have to note the time the buses leave going going back to Nimes.

You should use this site to get an idea of hard is it to get places so you don't have to wait for responses.
https://www.rome2rio.com/

The days are long in Europe during the summer it does not get dark unitl 9 or 10pm. So you should be able to see Carcassone

You forgot that you have to stop and eat and chill sometime

I guess I would have you ask yourself, "Why do I think a half-day in Lyon is better than having an extra half-day in Paris? Why is two partial days in the Dordogne worth all of that travel time when I could instead add roughly two days in Paris, or Alsace, or Normandy, or Provence?" And so on.

Have you checked train times and/or driving times to see approximately how many hours you're going to be on the move, as opposed to being able to walk around with your feet on French soil?

Have you factored in time for meals?

Your plan is beyond aggressive. Besides the exhaustion factor, when you plan to move so rapidly, if one thing goes wrong (a missed train, a rail strike, a delay when picking up or returning a rental car, slow service in a restaurant...), the house of cards may come tumbling down. And when are you going to do laundry?

Edited to add:

You can use ViaMichelin for driving times, but folks here say it tends to be optimistic, so the times need to be padded. And of course they do not include any stops.

I find the Deutsche Bahn's website the easiest to use for checking train schedules, though if you decide to buy train tickets in advance (which can save a lot of money on longer trips), you'd need to use the SNCF site instead.

Hi Guys,

First of all thanks for all the tips and web sites to check out. I knew about rome2rio, but not some of the others.

Well, I have to say that your response doesn't surprise me too much. I know it's kind of crazy to attempt so I figured I might need to trade out some things.

So, some comments on the comments:
- Yes, I worked out all the travel times and meals. It can be done, but it may not be worth it. As I mentioned changing hotels four nights in a row is something that I was really unsure about.
- I didn't count the hours traveling versus the hours actually being some where. That's an interesting thought.
- Yes, tourist season so there would be a lot of early mornings to get places before the crowds (e.g. MSM)
- Speaking of MSM, I had planned four hours there.
- I have been to Normandy and the beaches and my wife isn't all that interested that's why we have one day there.

OK, I have made some adjustments. I think this actually compares more closely to Rick's plan.

I removed Alsace completely and moved an extra day to Amboise and one to Dordogne. I will have to pick up that area when I visit Germany or Luxembourg. I also thought about removing Dordogne/Carcassonne and just going to Provence from Amboise.

Sat 07/15 Arrive Paris at 2:20pm – Visit the Champs area
Sun 07/16 Paris - Eiffel Tower, Historic walk
Mon 07/17 Paris - Louve in the morning, Reims afternoon
Tue 07/18 Versailles
Wed 07/19 Train to Caen - Visit Bayeux Tapestry and Cemetary. Stay in Bayeux
Thu 07/20 Drive to MSM for morning, then to Loire stopping at a chateau, Stay in Amboise
Fri 07/21 Amboise - Visit Chateau. Stay in Amboise
Sat 07/22 Drive to Dordogne. Cave Tour. Stay Dordogne
Sun 07/23 Canoe in Dordogne Stay Dordogne
Mon 07/24 Train or Drive to Carcassonne. Stay Carcassone
Tue 07/25 Train/drive to Nimes. Visit Pont Du Gard and Nimes. Stay Nimes
Wed 07/26 Train to Avignon, visit Palace. Stay Nimes
Thu 07/27 Train to Antibes, Check out beach and Antibes. Stay Antibes
Fri 07/28 Visit Monaco and Nice. Stay Antibes
Sat 07/29 Train to Lyon. Visit Lyon. Stay Lyon
Sun 07/30 Train to Paris. Time in Paris. Get to bed early.
Mon 07/31 EARLY, EARLY flight from Paris.

Could skip Lyon and just go back to Paris. Might make it easier to pick up a day in Reims from Paris. Right now we have it from 2-7 after visiting the Louve. Getting to the South of France is time consuming if you try to do it in one day.

So Rick's plan is this:
3 days: Paris, maybe Versailles
6 days, add: Normandy (3)
8 days, add: Loire (2)
11 days, add: Dordogne, Carcassonne (2/1)
16 days, add: Provence, Riviera (2/3)

This, new, plan above does this:

Paris 4
Normandy 1
Amboise 2
Dordogne 2
Carcassone 1
Provence 2
Riviera 2
Lyon 1
Paris 1

As I mentioned, I don't need 3 days in Normandy and I have to pick up a day for flying back from Paris so I took one from the Riviera or Provence.

What do you guys think?

Just a quick note - we visited the Pope's Palace in Avignon - we could have happily skipped it. It was pretty much empty inside, and expensive to boot. I think many people feel that way after seeing it. (Even Rick recommends skipping it on one of his tour talks).

We did enjoy Carcassonne. Now, we were there in Oct, so of course the evenings aren't as long. I'm not sure how late the shops and whatnot will be open, but you could walk around inside. We arrived in the evening and actually spent about 4-5 hrs the next morning walking around - but we did the - castle/fortress tour or museum, whatever it is acalled, and actually enjoyed shopping in the little stores.

Pont du Gard you can do in an hour - unless you really want to do some hiking and whatnot. We've had two visits - first was with a tour that gave us about 45 min, second time on our own and we prob stayed about an hour and did a little more walking around.

We spent about 90 min at MSM - again, it was Oct so not super busy - and we did get there about 20 min before the last entry for the monastery, so by the time we finished that, many of the shops were closed. I would have loved to spend a little longer.

I would almost think you could do the Louvre and the Tower in the same day - if you get advance tix for the tower, then you won't have to wait in line for an hour. Then again, weather could be bad. You may get all Louvre'd out - I think we spent 3 hrs or so there and were getting our fill or art by the time we left. We got our tickets inside at the Carrousel de Louvre at a machine to avoid the long lines outside.

This can be done...you will get home tired and it will be a whirl so be sure and take the time to journal or blog as you go or things will just be a blur after a while.

Also...be flexible and willing to skip something along the line if you start to become dazed or tired...it will save your sanity and your marriage.

Don't forget to stop & savor where you are.

Missing something is just a reason to return.

Enjoy

Nicole, I will have to look into what the Palace is like a bit more. Thanks for the tip. Good idea on Carcassonne, I will need to check the shop times etc. I've heard varying things on MSM, some say it's 90 minutes some say to take your time and spend a few hours. Since we will have a car, if we decide to leave earlier, we just get to the Loire earlier. Yeah, I had planned an early morning for the tower as to avoid the lines, but if you can get reserved tickets then it makes more sense to do with the Louve as you're in that area anyway. I will check that out!

Christi, some good tips, we did something similar in Italy last year and you're right. I did keep a journal (and I highly recommend it like you do) so as to remember things better. Stopping and savoring is also something I try to do so thanks for the reminder. In case anyone is curious, here's what we did in Italy last year:
Amalfi 3
Verona 1
Venice 2
Frienze 2
Cinque 1
Siena 2
Rome 4
We were moving for sure. But Italy isn't as big as France and the one big jump we made we flew.

Thanks to everyone, any other thoughts you have are greatly appreciated!

Joe

Since you're set on this itinerary - one note. Given the tightness of your schedule, you should plan on driving once you reach Caen. Given what you want to see and your time frame, public transportation to many of these sites won't be workable so just be sure to figure in the driving times to the various locations.

Hi Joe, my head is still spinning from reading your itinerary! If you haven't already made airline reservations, consider flying into Paris and out of Nice (or vice versa). No sense circling back to Paris if it's only to fly home. Just my two cents...

Nancy, Yeah, driving from Caen through at least Carcassonne. I will evaluate all of the driving times again.

Donna, Uh, yeah, not that we're not going to Alsace that would be good, buuuuut, I've already purchased the tickets so..... Oh well.

You need to rethink your return day. I'm very well versed in French holidays, traffic, and strikes. Sunday the 30th is a black travel day--about the HEAVIEST travel day of the year, especially on that north/south route. It's also a favorite moment for train and plane strikes.

Soooo, get in place in Paris for your return on Saturday the 29th, stay off the road on Sunday the 30th, enjoy Paris one more day. There will still be very heavy traffic Saturday too, but get your train or plane tickets well in advance. If there is a strike, it gives you one extra day to be in position for your transatlantic flight. Normally, in the chaos of a strike, you can get on any train going back to Paris, even if you don't have a seat reservation. Also, you can save Avignon until after Nice, when you are on your way back north? It's three hours from Nice to Avignon by either car or train, and another three hours from Avignon to Paris by high-speed train. Lyon should be for another time. The 30th is a terrible day to travel if you have any other choices.

MrsED- Yeah, I totally realize what you're saying. This trip is about hitting the high points in France (at least what we perceive to be the high points) within the time we have. It's sort of like going on a cruise where you get a taste of several places. I don't know that we'll be back to France, ever (but I hope so) but if we do, we'll have a good idea of places where we would like to spend more time. If we don't make it back, then I have seen things that I've always wanted to see even if it is for a shorter time than I would, ideally, want to see them for.

Bets - I'll check out that flight for sure! Thanks. :)

I rewrote my answer completely when I realized your travel date.

Oh Wow! Why is that such a bad travel day??????? Will it be hard to fly also? I guess you're saying that there might be a flight strike too? Why would Sunday 7/30 be worse than Saturday 7/29? Wouldn't Saturday be a worse day to travel. Also, does it help that I'm going North, not South?

I had thought about doing the Riviera before Provence, but getting from Carcasonne to Antibes looks like a long haul via train (6-7 hours). I guess I can drive one more day, but it's still about a 4 1/2 hour drive from what I can see.

Train from Antibes to Paris on a Saturday (without stopping in Lyon) can be done in 5:30-6:30 it looks like.

Huh, here's an idea: maybe take a train on Saturday to Lyon, have lunch and walk around a bit, and then catch a later train to Paris. That would at least break up the long travel day, but looks like it's at least 4 hours to Lyon from Antibes. In any case, that would put us there on Saturday 7/29 and have time on Sunday to visit Paris, or maybe that would be a good day to day trip to Reims (although, there is still that treat of a strike I suppose).

1. Strikes aren't certain but that's a favorite time to threaten them.
2. If a plane is canceled you can't jump on any plane but have to be re-booked. You can jump on any train, usually--and this is if a strike is called and carried through. There may be no strike at all.
3. It doesn't help that you are going north because the July vacationers from France, Belgium, Holland, and even Germany are driving this route, too. The August vacationers are driving south. It's called the crossover traffic/period.
4. Sunday is the worse because some people wait until the last minute before having to be back at work on Monday--though Saturday is a heavy travel day too. Once I was on the autoroute between Beaune and Auxerre around 9 p.m. on black Sunday and was very surprised that the traffic was flowing smoothly by evening. You could chance it if you don't mind driving to CDG, arriving around midnight. I can't tell you how the peripherique around Paris would be at that time on that day, however.

One Saturday, I went north and it was slow and bumper to bumper.
Another trip north was an absolute nightmare, taking five hours longer than usual. We just didn't pay attention when we took off and got caught, driving an elderly family member back to Burgundy from the Riviera. We tried getting off and taking the Nationals, but they were bad too. I've also gone south on weekends in July and August--not fun. French TV shows the same reports and interviews of people dealing with the traffic and back ups at toll plazas every year. They could just re-run the previous year's report because it doesn't change.
5. You have Carcassonne to Nîmes, and Nîmes to Antibes isn't bad at all, and can be done by car. You could then turn in your car on the Côte d'Azur.

Ok, but I'm planning on taking the train, not driving. Does that make a difference?

On other idea: Instead of going counter-clockwise, we could go clockwise. That would look like this. This itin is most difficult in the Amboise-MSM-Bayeux-Paris stretch at the end.

Sat 07/15 Arrive Paris at 2:20pm – Visit the Champs area
Sun 07/16 Paris - Eiffel Tower, Historic walk
Mon 07/17 Paris - Louve in the morning, Reims afternoon
Tue 07/18 Versailles
Wed 07/19 Train to Lyon- Visit Church and Amphiteater. Stay in Lyon or maybe just have lunch and get to Antibes after 8:30 pm
Thu 07/20 Train to Antibes, Check out beach and Antibes. Stay Antibes
Fri 07/21 Visit Monaco and Nice. Stay Antibes
Sat 07/22 Train to Nimes or Avignon. Visit Pont Du Gard and Nimes. Stay Nimes
Sun 07/23 Train to Avignon, visit Palace. Stay Nimes
Mon 07/24 Train or Drive to Carcassonne. Stay Carcassone
Tue 07/25 Drive to Dordogne. Cave Tour. Stay Dordogne
Wed 07/26 Canoe in Dordogne Stay Dordogne
Thu 07/27 Drive to Amboise. Stay in Amboise
Fri 07/28 Amboise - Visit Chateaus. Stay in Amboise
Sat 07/29 Drive to MSM for morning, then to Bayeux
Sun 07/30 Visit Bayeux Tapestry and Cemetary. Train to Paris
Mon 07/31 EARLY, EARLY flight from Paris.

Good move. Smarter to be closer to Paris. If there is any threat of a strike, it's easier to reach Paris and CDG a day earlier if necessary. Be sure to get your train tickets in advance. Sunday evening prices are always higher and these will certainly be.

But where are you turning in your car? The car rentals outside the airports and Paris train stations, such as Bayeux and Caen, are closed on Sundays. You might as well forget the train and drive your car back to CDG; it will be faster than a train into Paris St. Lazare station combined with the RER or taxi out to CDG. You'll still get some traffic so keep your eye on the reports and maps.com, but it won't be as bad as the A6 and A7. And it's light until 10 pm, so you can leave later and still get to CDG to turn in your car and spend the night.

You can turn in your car and stay at a hotel in Terminal 3.

Ugh, that would be unfortunate. I drove in Paris once previously and it was terrible. Something more to figure out I guess because we will need a car to get to any D-Day sights for sure.

Maybe we'll stay at MSM and do that in the morning then I can turn the car in on Saturday. Wouldn't need a car to visit Bayeux and the tapestry right?

Actually, if you can believe their website, Eurocar is open Sunday at the Caen RR https://www.europcar.com/location/france/caen/caen-railway-station

Great. That gives you more options! Yes, the clockwise route would be a safer bet during the crossover weekend.

If you were to drive back to CDG--which you don't have to do if the Caen Europecar is open--, you would go around Paris on an outer autoroute not the peripherique. There's no need to drive into Paris. If you take the train, yes, you have to go via Paris. At least now we know you have options.

I see, well, not driving through Paris would make it better for sure!

I think, however, we are going to stick with the counter-clockwise plan and head back to Paris (with a possible lunch stop in Lyon) on Sat 7/29. That would get us back to Paris with a little bit of wiggle room and also move our Reims trip to Sunday, the day before we leave.