UPDATE: Which French City--He has Chosen Nice/daytrip to Monaco. NEED INPUT

1) I'd have to give more thought on which city for myself.

2a) If DS is partial to the Alps and transportation logistics work, then Annecy. Beautiful old town on the lake, stunning setting.

2b) How long will you have for city 2? Car or public transportation? That could change my answer to Strasbourg or Colmar with the adorable, old wine villages, German influenced food, lots of history both old and newer (WWII).

2a or 2b would give you a very different experience than Paris.

I am anxiously reading the responses for a maybe pivot from Istanbul this October.

“History, food, old structures” adds up to Strasbourg and the nearby castles and historic villages of Alsace.
The house of the original “gourmand”— or gourmet in English—is in the castle-crowned town of Riquewihr which is 40 miles south of Strasbourg. is Strasbourg is a 1:45 TGV train ride from Paris.

I have been to all of them and for me it would be Annecy or Lyon but a better judge of what would be good for your son is your son's opinion. Annecy is just stunning and we did a side trip to Chamonix which was magic. We spent 4 nights there in an apartment with a view onto the central canal.
https://janettravels.wordpress.com/2023/03/27/quick-trip-up-the-aiquille-du-midi-chamonix/
Lyon is a great food town and the Traboules are interesting to explore. We did it as a two night side trip from Paris -- 3 nights would have been better.

Strassbourg isn't a bad choice either -- the EU headquarters, a charming old town and a quite singularly beautiful Cathedral. We spent a couple of nights there and then stopped in Colmar on our way to Provence.

Another great option would be the Dordogne if you can drive -- we liked to stay in small picturesque towns and then visit gardens, chateaux, villages and canoe the river . My favorite part of France.

We have also done Lille, Chartres, Angers, Nantes, Bayeux, Semur en Auxois, Aix, Nice, Rocquebrune Cap Martin, Limeuil, Cadouin, and Honfleur as side trips from Paris or on the road -- all good.

You aren't going to make a mistake -- any of these choices would be a nice trip.

I agree with the previous poster that there is no "losing" vote here! But to balance the big city of Paris, I would go for a smaller town like Colmar or Annecy. We've been to both and they are equally fantastic, although since your son like the Alps the obvious choice is Annecy. I personally (after visiting all 4 choices) want to see Lyon more as we only did a day trip there.
The weather is Sept should be so nice, enjoy spending lots of time outside in all these cities! (including a day trip to Chamonix!)

I've been to all your choices except Annecy in the last 6 months, and for more than a day or two. Strasbourg is best at Christmas; the bureaucrats have gone home and the city is prettier at night with all the lights, but it's as expensive as Paris with less to see. Colmar is too touristy; it's one of those places that's seriously overrun. Lyon has some interesting sights, and yes, it's known as a foodie haven, but it's a big city. Do go to the Beau Arts Museum if you go there, it's almost as good as the Musee d'Orsay.

My choice would be Rouen. I spent 2 days there in May, my first visit, and it's high on my list to go back to. The cathedral there is far better than the ones in Chartres or Strasbourg, plus it's where Joan d'Arc was tried. (She was burned at the stake a short distance away, and there's a church dedicated to her on the location.) The food is excellent, with the Norman influence of apples in most everything. (I had some truly excellent scallops with artichoke hearts one evening.) Great museums, nice parks, fantastic architecture, some very interesting street art, and lots of antique and old bookstores for me to crawl through. (Walk the park around the Hotel d'Ville early in the morning.) It's an hour and a half from Paris by train, easy to walk, reasonably priced, and often overlooked.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/bBfgtEs.jpg[/img]

KGC you make me want to go back to Rouen -- our one November visit was a bust -- 3 of the iconic churches were closed although supposed to be open 'exceptional' closures and it was fogged in and cold. Just not a great trip. We may give it another try this fall based on your recommendation.

vandabrud,
Reading the replies....if you should choose Rouen and have a car for a day, take a drive on D982. It follows the Seine partway and is a lovely drive. The Route des Abbayes is through beautiful countryside, and the ruins of the Abbaye des Jumieges are magnificent. There are other abbeys in the area to visit as well. You can drive along the river further on D81 (If I remember right)and go to Villequier, a small village with a nice Victor Hugo museum. You drive right next to the Seine.
If you don't want to drive, there are private tour guides available (through the tourism dept. I think).
Good luck in finding your location!

Jane -

November is a rough month for tourism. Places are closed for the summer and getting ready for Christmas. The weather starts getting nasty mid-October and the days get short. It's cold out on the water, and not much better along the rivers. Rouen looks a lot better when things start greening up (as do most places.) Plus, they turn off all the fountains.

I've been to Lyon (2 nights), Strasbourg (5 nights) and Colmar as a day trip. Of those three, I would choose either Strasbourg or Colmar, depending on whether you want to be in a larger or smaller city/town. Alsace has a very different flavor from Paris, which I enjoyed. Either Strasbourg or Colmar can be a base for touring by train around Alsace, and you could even do a day trip into Germany if that would appeal to you. While I haven't been to Annecy, that also seems like a great contrast to Paris given that your son is interested in the Alps. I'm not knocking Lyon--we enjoyed it, but Strasbourg felt like much more of a contrast, with a lot of short day trips easily available.

Thank you so much for so many thoughtful replies!

DS and I have been to Rouen and have driven back and forth to Bayeux. This trip started in Paris for only 2 days and after Normandy we went to Belgium for further WWII sites and ended in Luxembourg. This was his favorite trip after Turkey, because Turkey was his first trip and I think that first great trip can never be matched.

DS prefers to have a car and I prefer not to. Will try not to get a car this trip unless it just makes the most sense.

I am thinking about 12 days for the trip, could possibly be a day or two more. One week for Paris.

And of course, there are no bad choices!
I can't wait to see what he chooses.

I agree with the others who've focused on how different each possibility is from Paris. Lyon has a great deal to see, and I look forward to returning, but it is a lot more Paris-like than your other options. For a two-city trip, with the other city being Paris, Lyon wouldn't be my choice.

The very center of Colmar is very touristy, but it wasn't hard to avoid the crowds. To me, the town was so gorgeous (and the Unterlinden Museum so nice) I was willing to overlook hoe popular Colmar is. I'd suggest it might be helpful to avoid weekends.

The tourist load in Annecy bugged me a lot more, but taking a boat trip on the lake, a bike ride around the lake or heading into the mountains would make conditions in Annecy itself less important. Again, weekdays might be better.

OK, so DS arrived home today and listened to a brief summary of the options, viewed a map of France and some Google photos of each city. Then he came out with: "Is Nice too far?" My reply was "It's Monaco you want to see, correct?" Of course, it was.

We can afford an extra day of train travel, no problem.

So, Nice and Monaco it is.

I would love to hear any advice or thoughts about our new plan!

Monaco is pretty dull. cramped high rise buildings. There is the casino, and the marina with spectacular boats.
He might like Marseilles.

It's easy to hit a lot of coastal villages along the Riviera by just hopping on a train in Nice. The trains are regionals, so there's no need to buy tickets in advance. Monaco will be an easy destination to reach.

The hill towns generally mean using a bus, but many of those depart from Nice. Buses, in addition to trains, are an option for the trip to Monaco. The views might be different, so you can consider using each method in one direction.

Most of the area sights I'm familiar with are art-related, which you haven't mentioned as a particular interest, so I will not enumerate those.

Menton and Antibes have attractive historic centers, as does Nice itself.

The food in Nice is significantly Italian-influenced.

So the answer is "none of the above"!

Try to stay in one of the smaller towns along the Riviera if your staying several days, perhaps Villefranche sur Mer or Beaulieu sur Mer.

Pay attention when cruise ships are in port when planning your days.

My favorite places in the area were St. Paul de Vence and the hilltop village of Eze. My least favourite was Monaco, sorry. I've been twice. Once as a day trip from Nice and also 5 days in Monte Carlo on business many years ago. I didn't find it charming, just very busy and definitely glitzy. Although the drive from Nice to Monte Carlo has some incredible views.

Here are some things that I did while staying in Cannes and driving to Monaco a few years ago. Maybe these will interest your son. Enough for at least a few days touring. That's how much time I spent going back and forth to Monaco:

• Visit the Palace in Monaco (verify availability now).

• See the Prince's considerable car collection in Monaco.

• Tour the Monaco oceanography museum, once managed by Jacques Cousteau. Great collection of species from all over the world. I really enjoyed this museum.

• See the Picasso museum in Chateau Grimaldi in Cagnes sur mer. Great views from the top of the tower. EDIT- I just tried to confirm that this was a Picasso Museum, but couldn't. Chateau Grimaldi must have had a temporary exhibit on Picasso or Renoir when I visited. But, as I found on their website, they have an exhibit/room on Suzy Solidor, which I specifically remember. So, the Chateau in Cagnes sur mer is correct. Maybe not including Renoir or Picasso anymore.

• Visit the Parfumerie Galimard in Eze (I hoped to visit, but never made it there).

• Walk or drive the F1 Monaco GP route. Especially in front of the Casino, the hairpin turn and the tunnel area. Be sure to check out the park across the street from the Casino too.

There's plenty more to see around Nice and Cannes too.

Plane tickets booked! I was able to find a 2 pm flight from Nice (NCE) to JFK. I don't prefer JFK, but it is better than 2 layovers. There were flights through Amsterdam and London. Since it is a relatively last minute trip, I was going to save some dollars by flying comfort plus, but it wasn't available on one of the flights so I went ahead and booked Premium Select.

I spent the afternoon reviewing the locations that you suggested and I watched a bunch of YouTube videos on the area.

Dopamine is flowing!

November isn't a bad time to visit Monaco and Nice. Warmer than much of France and nearby countries.

You can get the Foehn and the Mistral, and some rain but also some really nice weather.

Not mentioned in the attractions of Monaco above (unless I missed them), also consider the mechanical aspects of making a hilly principality easily usable for the mobility challenged in the population. Monaco has done a great job using public outside escalators and elevators, multi level crossings and all sorts. I love to find ways around and see just how many hills I can beat.

The train station for one, there is the entrance near track level at the top of S Devote (F1), an exit with a travelator down by the port near the F1 finish line, and an exit at the top of the car park above the station convenient to Jardin Exotique.

Speaking of which, the Jardin Exotique (and one at the top of Eze le Village) are great year round.

The rose garden won't be at its best in November but the Japanese Garden on top of a car park will be.

You can stand at the Café de Paris and the Casino without going in and look right down the hill to S Devote, and then swing around in the little park and see the road down to the hairpin.

There are all sorts of views of parts of the F1 track but your son will need to know what to look for. Remember that the track goes in the opposite direction of traffic in places. Careful in and around the tunnel, and traffic in Monaco does not watch out for F1 fans leaping out.

Princess Grace is buried in the chapel near the palace - a nice place to visit. The Prince's car collection (the deny it is a museum) is also right there.

There is the Changing of the Guard, and mentioned above I love the Aquarium.

People who don't go to Monaco with a prejudice that it is only a casino and lots of rich people actually find quite a lot of interest and plenty to do. Don't forget the harbours - large and little - and what's nearby, and a McDonalds with a great view of the petit harbour, and the beach, and and and....

I think you and your son will enjoy Nice and Monaco. I recently stayed in Nice with my 22 year old daughter. Here are a few things I learned that may be helpful:

-The day we went to Eze it was extremely busy, which made it less appealing. On my next trip, I would visit Saint Paul de Vence or another less popular mountain town.
- The gardens and cathedral are lovely in Monaco. We also enjoyed the oceanography museum.
- Side note: Our e-sim card did not work in Monaco (even though we had selected all Europe option with Maya), so we had to revert to a small paper map which was challenging for my 22 year old.
-Nice is a large city, but it is manageable if you follow the guidelines in Rick's book. Keep you scope small and focus mainly on the Promenade area and Old Nice. Walking around Castle Hill was my favorite evening.
-We stayed at one of Rick's suggested hotels, Hotel Victor Hugo, near the promenade in Nice. I highly recommend staying there. Gilles, the manager or owner, is superb, This hotel is in a great location, very safe, and economical. As stated in Rick's book, it is like going back in time (in a good way). The room we had was a suite with an adjoining kitchen.
-If you ride the local tram (subway) system in Nice, make sure to scan your prepaid card when you get on the tram.

Monaco is pretty dull. cramped high rise buildings

Thanks, for tossing that out there, I didn't want to be the first one to say it! Yes, there is an AMAZING view of the harbor full of yachts. And it is mildly interesting to watch the changing of the guard at the Palace although the Palace itself really isn't all that much to see. And you can see Monte Carlo, but unless you're a high roller, that's probably ALL you'll do is just see it and take a photo of it.

Otherwise.... meh. I didn't find Monaco to be an especially interesting place, it was a "one and done" for me. I'm glad I took a day to go see it from Nice, but then I was ready to move on. I've returned to Nice a couple of times since then, and never bothered to go back to Monaco.

I agree with StellaB.

I think you are headed in September, and the summer crowds on the Cote d'Azur have been lingering on longer and longer, it seems. The trip to Eze can be taken by bus or taxi/Uber from Nice. Beyond Eze is La Turbie and the Trophee des Alpes You can easily take the train to Monaco from Nice, and look at the tips above on the system of elevators and escalators that are in the city --- many are not obvious, and at least one I know of it practically hidden. While I only go to Monaco for special events, it is not my favorite place to hang out. A few other comments:

• You can also take a day trip to St. Paul de Vence. The trip does require a transfer on public transport (bus for the last leg). The Fondation Maeght is a fine modern art museum just on the outskirts. If you do have a car, you can journey beyond to Tourettes-sur-Loup and the perched village of Gourdon.
  
• The Villa Ephrussi de Rothschild can be reached be reached by bus. The flat walk around Cap Ferrat is nice, but you may not be up to it, although it is level.
  
• There is Fort Alban high up on the hill between Nice and Villefranche-sur-Mer. You can actually avoid the climb by taking the public bus from Nice. There is a walk through a park to the Fort, where you will pass by Elton John's estate.
  
• The Musee Picasso/Chateau Grimaldi is not in Cagnes-sur-Mer as posted above, but in old town Antibes. There is a chateau in Haut de Cagnes.
  
• You can take the ferry to Ste Marguerite island or from Cannes, to St. Honorat (this has a tower and an active monastery that makes its own wine).
  
• The best nightlife for your son is found in the Old Town (including apero at the bars lining the Prom)( or the Port (and nearby) The best beach night club is Bocca Mar. But nevertheless, do try to have lunch on the beach (le Galet, Bocca Mar, l'Amour)
  
• Menton is very colorful and is even more Italian influenced. There are some lovely gardens there as well.
  
• There are some roman ruins (relatively minor) next to the Matisse Mussee in Nice. The latter has a special exposition that may still be open -- 51 additional works regarding the Med are on loan from throughout the world, in celebration of the Oceans Conference recently held in Nice. (The regular collection can be underwhelming from a strictly art perspective).
  

I wasn't expecting much when I went to Monaco, but I ended up really enjoying my time there! Have a wonderful time with your son - it sounds like a great trip.

Thank you so much for the wonderful ideas and suggestions! A vision is forming.

acraven: one of us likes art and we accommodate each other's interests. Can you tell me your favorite art experience in the area?

jeanM: Villefranche-sur-mer looks beautiful!

Nigel: thank you for the transportation expert's view of Monaco and also for the comment about prejudice.

Jill: thank you for your suggestions and the reminder to validate on the tram. Unfortunately Victor Hugo is booked. I need to find a place to stay pretty soon.

Gooster: I am still working through your suggestions. They look great!

Lin, Stella, and Kenko: I am so sorry that your time in Monaco was underwhelming. However, just about any place on the map can be enjoyed based on one's interests. DS is an F1 fan and wants to see the hair pin turn and sites that he has seen on TV while watching the race. As listed above, there seem to be many other things to enjoy as well.

DS is an F1 fan and wants to see the hair pin turn and sites that he
has seen on TV while watching the race.

My brother and his wife are going to Monaco on a day trip from a cruise this summer. They had a choice of excursions but my brother is an F1 fan, too, and he really wanted to see the Grand Prix route as well. So like your son, that was the main reason they chose it.

For those of us who aren't into that...well, it's an okay place to visit for a day, but that's about it.