Updated France Itinerary

2 hour day trip = four hours on the train round trip. Will you be able to see anything worth that journey in the remaining daylight hours? Do you have specific things you want to do / see in Loire Valley, Provence, Frankfurt ?? Or Nantes and Lyon ??
Looks like a LOT of time on trains -- my experience has been that for us every change of location eats up a half day IN ADDITION TO the transportation time.

Youj can check more detailed train schedules on bahn.de/en to see number of stops and number of train transfers.
Less is more.

Nantes to Lyon will be more like 6 hours as you need to go via Paris, and get across the city to change stations. You could look at flying between the cities, but i also think you are moving about far to much, sorry

Have you really considered what it's going to be like, moving every 3-4 days? You use 1/2 day each time you move. For instance, Lyon to Strasbourg is 4 hours just on the train. You have to pack, get to the station, then from the station to your new digs to drop your bags. 3 nights in Strasbourg will be an afternoon, and a full day. It's 2 hours or more on the train to Frankfurt, that's about 5 hours of travel time and then the next day you're back on another train to Paris.

Your plan sounds like you will be spending as much time in transit as actually being in places and visiting sights. You have zero time for relaxing except on the long train rides, which by the way, are kind of expensive.

And dont forget the train system in France operates like a star from Paris which is why Nantes, Lyon, Strasbourg will require going to Paris twice

Go back to your first post, which had the best itinerary of 3 stops. Look at Adam's suggestions. I've ruled out Burgundy without a car, though. So Paris( 5 nights), Lyon (5) with day trips to Vienne to see the Roman buildings and museum and maybe a trip up to the Alps or south to Avignon for the day, and then Strasbourg(5) where you can cross the Rhine for a day to be in Germany and visit towns, villages, castles. Finally take the train back to Paris but stay at an airport hotel (1) the night before your return flight.

It's not clear why you want to be in Nantes all those nights when the favorite chateau are a huge schlep away. It's a balance of time, and your last itinerary is the most exhausting (except for the Berlin, Munich or something like that). It's all new, so it will all be wow, so keep it simple.

To be blunt, your purposed itinerary is a logistical nightmare. Simplify this.

Choose 3 out of Paris regions maximum, end with Paris. This could be Normandy, Loire Valley, Provence, Paris. Alternatively; Normandy, Provence, Alsace, Paris. Prioritize to a maximum of your 3 top choices, spending three to four nights at each location. On your first day in France, you will be tired but power through to your first region. Spend the last 4 or 5 or 6 days in Paris.

You should hire a car for the first 10 days (actually picking up on day 2) or until returning to Paris (where you do not need a car). If you insist on using trains, stay in hub cities such as Caen for Normandy, Tours for the Loire Valley, Avignon for Provence. Drop Nantes, Lyon, and possibly Strasbourg. Fabulous places but you already have a lot to see.

Spend more time studying the 3, outside of Paris regions. Involve the children, let them do as much planning as you can. You absolutely must get them involved. Forget far away, long day trips.

September is high season for hotels in Paris. Paris accommodations should be a top priority. Paris is a very rich environment for children and there are myriad activities for them.

Keep the itinerary simple and fill it with interesting nearby activities – minimize day trips.

Thanks everyone, I just can’t seem to let go of going to more places. So do Paris, Lyon and Strasbourg? What about Paris, Provence and Strasbourg? I actually was thinking about that after posted. I got a book about things family things to do in France and Nantes seemed to have a few cool looking things. But I’m ok dropping it to make the trip less exhausting. We really do not want to rent a car, I looked into it but it’s hard finding something that fits 6 of us. So is it not possible to do outside Paris w/o a car? I thought Rick said in his books that you can get by without a car? And yes, Adam’s ideas were good ones and my kids are helping but they are annoyed with me because I keep coming up with different ideas and to them 7 months is a long time from now! Thanks again for all the input!

Provence to Strasbourg is from 5 to 6 hours by train. That's not an objection, just FYI.

If you do go to Alsace, you might consider staying on Colmar, a smaller town of great charm. Direct train connection to nearby Strasbourg for day trip.

There are several direct trains to Strasbourg from deGaulle, 2 hrs or less. So, you could end in Paris, possibly.

Without a car, you are probably best off sticking to cities plus day trips. Kind of a shame to miss the countryside that time of year, but you will not be bored.

Paris, Alsace, Lyon: Choose any 3.

Don't shortchange Paris! It is one of the world's greatest cities and sits at the hub of France's rail network.

How about arriving in Paris and taking a train to Colmar and staying 4 nights, then going to Provence for 5 nights, Lyon for 3 nights and ending in Paris for 4 nights? Is that still too much? I could take out Lyon and add a day to Colmar and 2 to Paris.

How about arriving in Paris and taking a train to Colmar and staying 4 nights, then going to Provence for 5 nights, Lyon for 3 nights and ending in Paris for 4 nights? Is that still too much? I could take out Lyon and add a day to Colmar and 2 to Paris.

For your first trip to Europe, please do not plan to get off an overnight flight and try to navigate 6 sleep deprived humans on to a train for a 3+ hour journey to your first stop. That is a recipe for unhappy travelers all around.

Engaging others in your planning is always a challenge, but primarily, it's important to learn "what is the 1 or 2 things that the other person(s) wants to see and do" and then make sure that everyone gets that 1 or 2 things included. When we travelled as a family with older teens on a long driving trip in the US we discussed what was most important to each individual and then I researched and submitted to the family a list with basic description from which we all chose as the place, museum, activity that would make this family trip their own. You may find that your children and spouse are really only interested in Paris and the Loire Valley and you can save that trip to Mont St Michel for a later trip with just your spouse. Your family may prefer the outdoor places and activities more to their liking such as the Normandy beaches and bike rides in Paris and less travel between cities. Remember, you cannot "see it all" one your first trip - start planning your second when you return!

For your first trip to Europe, please do not plan to get off an overnight flight and try to navigate 6 sleep deprived humans on to a train for a 3+ hour journey to your first stop

Sorry CL but I see this the other way. No one is going to arrive anywhere after a long, overnight transatlantic flight and be anything but tired. If you stay in Paris, hotels, even apartments, will not let you check in and unwind until late in the afternoon. You just as well press on to a destination now. I am not suggesting that anyone drive anywhere the first day, you should absolutely not drive the day of arrival. But taking the TGV from CDG to Strasbourg, Tours, or Avignon is no more tiring than waiting in Paris for hotel check in. The TGV to Tours is about 2 hours or just slightly longer than an early morning taxi from CDG into the city.

Arrival day is exhausting no matter what you do. Save Paris for the end, keep the visit all consecutive days, and you will be in position for your flight home.

Train tickets should be purchased as soon as they become available, typically 3 months before travel. I prefer the SNCF´s own website. You can also have the SNCF contact you when tickets are available by using Alert Résa. Just fill out the date and destination you want and you will receive an email when tickets become available.

I think I agree with Tocard, and have had a few people tell me to do Paris last. I know that no matter where we are we will be tired. And we will not be driving but taking a train. Also once we get to Colmar Id like to stay 4-5 days so we can rest up and get over the jet lag before moving on. I am showing my kids pictures of Colmar and Provence and we all feel more drawn to Colmar and that area. So I want to add a day there and take a day away from Provence, remove Lyon all together. So do 6 nights in Colmar, 5 nights in Provence and 5 nights in Paris, or should I switch Paris and Colmar? Also, in the Provence area what is the best suggestion for our home base? I want to stay in Marseille but Im afraid that is too south but we would really like to stay on the water if possible.

I agree with going directly to Colmar on arrival. Long day, but good use of time and you can nap on the train. Colmar is charming, especially after the daytrippers leave.

We made use of taxis a few time to get to little villages not well-served by bus.

Now I think you are on the right track and should follow Tocard’s suggestions.

Family participation: you choose your three stops but have the offspring help choose activities once you know your cities. Otherwise, you’ll either end up with a lot of one-night stops and out-of-the-way sites, or you’ll have to say no and someone will be unhappy.

Marseille isn’t the best. Try Arles. You can go to Cassis by train for a day at the sea.

Jeshot, I feel your pain - so many wonderful possibilities, so little time. As most everyone else has said, with 4 kids in tow, 3 home bases max (Paris plus 2 others) would allow you time to comfortably and memorably experience the places you choose. More than three, and your trip may become a blur of train rides and Airbnb checkouts.

In France, it is very doable to go to three well-chosen cities/towns and never need a rental car. Just check for convenient train connections and a good intra-city/region transit system (busses and/or trams and a metro for large cities)

The eastern route suggested by several pp’s - Colmar or Strasbourg, Lyon or Avignon, with Paris, would give you lots of variety, without too many hectic moves. Personally, I like to keep a day trip to a one hour train or bus ride. More sight, less transit. Good luck whittling it down.

Try not to nap on the train. It will prolong jet lag.

If you can catch the 9 AM from deGaulle, you can be in Colmar for lunch. Otherwise head to Paris Est for the 10:55.

I think you could steal a day from Alsace (even with Frankfurt day trip) and give it to Paris or Provence. 5 nights is still 4 days.

Depending on what you find to do in Colmar, 4 to 5 nights might do it. More nights in Paris is a good plan.

Thanks so much, everyone! I think I am settled on Colmar 5 nights, Arles 6 nights and Paries 5 nights. I am now going to start the booking of the lodging part! We are sticking with AIrBnbs to have a kitchen and because many hotel rooms don't sleep 6 people. Quick question, I found a cute place near Colmar called Eguisheim, the owner says its a short bus/cab ride to Colmar. Would this be a good idea, or should I try and stick closer to Colmar city center? I found one there as well, but it did not have as much character and charm.

Eguisheim isn't far, but it adds another stage to your trip. So if you want to go to Frankfurt (for instance), unless there is a bus to Strasbourg from Eguisheim, you'll have to get to the train in Colmar, take the local to Strasbourg, and then transfer to the Frankfurt train.

Doable? Well, sure. But.

I have never been to Eguisheim (have visited Colmar) and am only commenting on the logistical aspects of this plan. One of the virtues of Colmar is that, without being huge, it has a fair amount going on, and also a train station.

Small villages are great to visit during the day, or as a base if you have a car. Otherwise they can feel cramped.

I loved staying in Eguisheim, but I had a car. There are not a lot of buses to the charming villages you are looking at. Buses are mainly for locals, so you may not find many from one to another, more to a large city like Colmar where people may be commuting to school and work - which also means that bus times will be suited to them - fewer buses when school's out, few in mid-morning, evenings. Colmar may be a much better option using buses. If you depend on taxis from village to village, you are likely to need 2 for each journey - I wouldn't expect regular taxis to hold more than 4 passengers. Note that Colmar is a pretty big city. Be careful where you stay. You want to be close to the historic center but also to the bus stops - have no idea where they are. I do know the train station is about a km. from the center.

Arles is a good base if you are using public transportation. It has a number of Roman ruins that I think your kids will enjoy. The museum with a recovered Roman boat is excellent. Arles also has a large market.

From Arles you have a number of excellent day trips. Don’t miss the Pont du Gard. We also enjoyed the Roman theater in Orange, Avignon, Nimes. Other destinations may be a little harder to reach by public transport. I am not familiar with the logistics (but many, many years ago I arranged a day tour to see the Camargue with the tourist office and got to Les Baux by bus...any knowledge I have is completely obsolete.) The RS guidebook will help, as will the tourist office in Arles.

The train station in Arles is just north of the old town and RS guidebook has a few hotels within very easy walking distance. We stayed in Arles about 5 years ago with family and enjoyed our time there. (We had a car). We did find restaurant choice a little limiting compared to other places we stayed in France, but that could have changed since we were there.