Update : Escape from France and Lessons Learned

Glad that you were able to find a way to reach London, and it’s sad you got the treatment you received. So you could still get to London, but by plane not by train?

Oh, I misunderstood on your other thread. So you are now in UK with family? I somehow thought you’d flown back to US.

I've never had a bad experience or encounter in France, but I also have never had to deal with the French police. Nor have I visited during covid. Glad you made it out.

One element of your experience demonstrates profoundly why most people in the Forum counsel against purchasing a railpass.

Otherwise, I am really sorry for your experience, but wow, generalize much?

May you have nice holidays with your family.

….. or counsel against visiting more than one country at present and allow lots of time leeway within the 90 day limit!

Enjoy the rest of your break. The U.K. isn’t a fun place to be right now.

Some days at the deli counter or the bakery section of the big chain supermarket the staff are in a tetchy mood or distracted or both - if I based my shopping habits on one of the negative encounters with them, I'd never go to that supermarket again, and then I would never get the great service that I have gotten on other occasions from the butcher counter or the cashiers or the nice lady handing out samples and on and on.

….. or counsel against visiting more than one country at present and allow lots of time leeway within the 90 day limit!

Agree completely with this. I have been reading the many recent posts detailing troubles travelers are having this month in Europe, and the majority of them had complex, tight, multi country itineraries that are at the root of most of the stress.

I can hear the frustration in your words. It must have been a horrible experience! I appreciate that you took the time to share this situation to warn others about the rail pass specifics.

I’ve always been treated very nicely by the people in France - some going way beyond what I would expect in any normal encounter. I’m hoping to get back there in 2023.

The two times I've been to France, I found the people to be very nice, in general, and a couple of people even went far above and beyond to be helpful.

These are stressful times for everyone, but especially for those who have to deal with implementing ever-changing restrictions and safety measures and are sometimes treated rudely and aggressively for their trouble. This might leave them with less patience than they would have normally.

I understand your frustration, though. Travelling is particularly challenging right now, for sure. I hope you have a nice visit with your family and enjoy your lovely new grandchild. :)

I read the frustration in your post and have empathy for your really negative experience. I also note your posting name, Railrider, and read your profile to understand how you are a seasoned international traveler. That said, I ask you to allow some time to soak in and recognize adversely painting with a broad brush towards the population of France is not warranted. Please be at peace and seek to instill peace onto other folks for it is a precious gift to give and receive.
Merry Christmas and Safe Travels!

The more I read here, the more I see a clash of cultures about the way problems are approached. You can't find two more different attitudes than someone from a customer-is-king culture and a French person from a culture that emphasizes "solidarité," and detests whining or confrontation on a job. The moment you are confrontational, you’ll get an icy response. The door shuts. And the language you use is important. Americans are very direct which can sound confrontational, shocking and rude in other cultures. French is much less direct. A Dutch flight attendant told me Americans shocked her for saying « gimme a....» when the beverage cart came around. In French there would be a couple of merci, at least one please, and likely the conditional so as not to sound direct and demanding.

I think you would have had to still go via Brussels, but I think you would have gotten help and sympathy if someone who understands the culture and how to approach the problem had been there to guide you, apply the social grease. Often, the first answer is "no," but as conversations go on and evolve, certain openings appear, ideas change, and without saying so, the no has evolved into a "yes." The American wants the answer directly and now. You needed more language and culture or a local to help. I am certain that you all ended up rubbing each other the wrong way in this crisis, I'm sorry you had this experience.

I sympathize with you and understand your frustration but the average French person had nothing to do with your situation. I doubt you would have mentioned items 1-7 in your other post if it had not been for the border closing issue. Try to put it into perspective. You were only one of possibly a thousand people those officials were having to deal with that day. Put yourself in their shoes and then consider whether you may have been on edge. I am sorry you’re out all that money.

Hi, we typically don't allow for anyone to throw an entire country or group of people under the proverbial bus in this forum. However, we can all recognize frustration so I'm allowing for some of the OP's post to remain as there is some good info in there. I'm also removing some posts as they had an air of piling on which we don't need to do here.

These are trying times and we -- a collection of travelers -- are all in it together. Be good to each other.

a French person from a culture that emphasizes "solidarité," and detests whining or confrontation on a job.

So why so many strikes?

Joe--solidarity and strike to avoid verbal or physical confrontation.

So why so many strikes?

joe32F, touché

Actually, studying why there are so many "strikes" in European countries is a good way to learn more about work cultures and the variety of methods to resolve disputes. I am serious and not striving to needle anyone, this is a good way to learn more about how workers are trained to resolve conflict.
Peace!

Thank you, Webmaster!
I was struck by the post's title earlier today. "Escape" has the connotation of desperation to get away from actual -or perceived- danger of some kind, although you must certainly have felt increasingly helpless and "trapped"/original plans stymied on top of the Shengen time ticking and the need to see your family and especially your new grandchild (congratulations!). Sharing your post is a very helpful reminder to others that travel during this wretched pandemic will likely bring at least some unanticipated obstacles and frustrations and to be prepared. It's fortunate you have the experience to navigate most of it and, above all, the financial resources to ultimately get where you needed.
There are borders with people with zero resources in fear for their lives actually trying to escape to the other side.
That the virus has explosively mutated again is not the fault of the French government. Maybe it's true you were a pawn in the fishing dispute. Regardless, it's a good cautionary tale for those considering whether to keep their upcoming overseas travel plans as well as for those currently traveling that the situation is changing day-to-day and that it's vital to stay on top of it all. Between that (and now trying to avoid Omicron) for me personally travel doesn't sound like the joyous adventures of my pre- Covid privileged life.
I read your other post about the culture. I can speak French and have been to various parts of the country 6 times and loved every second. I have hosted French students and their families in the US. I thought your observation about service was interesting because I was reminded of my experience in Cuba. I went with Road Scholar so saw only what the government wanted us to see, our guide was excellent. In one of the two 5 star hotels we stayed I went into the small gift shop for cigars for presents. There were two store clerks behind the glass counter and they completely ignored me. I mean, completely. They saw me enter, but just kept talking to each other and then doing other small tasks while I stood at the counter about 10 minutes. I can't speak Spanish, so left and just kept returning (when it was even open!) til eventually someone helped me. It never occurred to me that this was rude, it was a cultural difference from the US- same as when I was told tipping was insulting in Finland, and myriad other examples that made travel such a fantastic opportunity to learn. I miss it, and I miss my grandchildren and my family who once again I can't see at the end-of-year holidays.
BTW, Omicron could throw a real "wrench" in your plans at any point- it is unbelievably contagious and about a 3 day incubation period to show up on a home or PCR test. This is from a friend's experience last week when a holiday banquet (all vaxxed and boosted and masked and tested prior) turned into a super spreader event. Almost everyone who attended (35 + people) has Covid now and their families are becoming infected, too. Wherever you are, do not take off your mask and eat outdoors!
Healthy new year and I hope by this time next year the Forum will again be about packing or pickpockets or other tips :)

I know you're angry.....but.....the problem is with the French Police who stopped you. According to the French document issued on the 18th regarding travel to the UK, it stated that no foreign national would be stopped from leaving to return to their home. But it wasn't guaranteed that they could return the same way. (I posted this in one of the threads but can't seem to find it.)

It was buried deep into the document so I guess it was not explained to the police officers.

Technically, the French government wasn't preventing you from leaving the country. They were just preventing you from leaving via the UK.

You were angry that you were getting close to the Schengen limit. But that's not anyone else's fault but yours. It's not up to a government to help you follow the rules. You're responsible for following the rules.

Here is my take from a European perspective about what tourists can do to avoid getting in this situation. Please note--this is not intended as criticism or laying of blame, but rather as a response to the OP's question about what might be learnt from the situation.

One might be advised to:

1) Travel to only one country at a time right now.

2) Leave ample buffer time to comply with visa rules--what happens if you plan on staying 88 days and then test positive? (It is likely possible to get an extension under this case, but that adds a tremendous amount of stress to an already difficult situation.)

3) Set money aside to have ready for changes of plans, and be ready to move very quickly if the situation seems to be shifting. I would say that one should budget for same-day flights to one's home country: that has been my personal line, at least.

4) Understand the covid-related culture of the countries that one is visiting. The speed of this decision comes as no surprise to those of us who live in or near France; this is how our life has been for the last two years. I understand that it is shocking to a visitor, but that does not change the fact that it has become part of our normal.

5) And perhaps most importantly: Recognise that rules are being made on the basis of the general situation of residents, not tourists. The situations that tourists find themselves in are, in the grand scheme of things, very much edge cases in comparison to those of residents (both numerically and politically), and these interests are simply not always going to factor heavily into governmental decisions. For example, in this case, the general model of border closures in the European context over the last two years has been to reduce inter-country traffic to a minimum, while still allowing residents to return home, including transit exceptions narrowly defined. It is entirely true that a strict interpretation of this rule had negative consequences for the OP. However, these sorts of rules are generally made and implemented quickly out of necessity, and it is quite often the case that there are things that initially make no sense or cause confusion, or are simply unfair. And, this is more likely to be true the more unique your situation is--as the OP's in this post is. That is simply the reality of travel in the midst of a pandemic.

I can entirely understand that this was a traumatic situation for the OP, but I also think it is critical to make clear that there are choices here which could help others plan for and avoid the same. Furthermore, it seems rather unlikely that we will be 'out' of the pandemic any time soon, so thinking about these sorts of things may well become part of what we simply need to do.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions in this thread. I think everyone's made their case at this point. I'm concerned about the direction of this thread, so I'm going to close this on a note where good advice has been given. Thank you all for your understanding.