Travel to Italy and France

If you can stretch it to 12 days (11 nights), I would fly into Paris (4 nights), fly to Florence or Venice (3 nights), train to Rome (4 nights) and fly home from Rome.

It's hard to give detailed info without much information: when are you going? budget? preferred method of travel between places (train, cheaper but takes longer, or fly, which is more expensive)? what do you like to do (cities, countryside, museums, outdoor activities, history, art,etc)? do the kids have a place they want to see?

How about landing in Venice, staying 3 nights; fast train to Florence, 3 nights; then fast train to Rome, 3 nights; then fly to Paris, 3 nights? Then fly home out of Paris. Our family will be doing a similar whirlwind trip next May except we're eliminating Rome and including Siena and Aix en Provence but we have almost 3 weeks.

Fly to Venice (which is a great place to get over jet lag) and stay 3 nights; fast train to Rome and spend 3 nights; then fly to Paris and spend 3 nights. That still leaves a couple of days to play with or use as travel days. Remember, it almost always takes longer to go from Point A to Point B than anticipated.

Three nights is not close to enough for either Paris or Rome, so if you must go to Italy and France then I would split the time with the extra day wherever you fly in to account for jetlag. I would rent an apartment for 6 nights each place or 7 and 5 and plan to vary things with a day trip or two.

From Paris there are literally dozens of day trips within an hour by train -- you could have some village experiences easily. Some examples here: https://janettravels.wordpress.com/category/day-trips-from-paris/

From Rome there are also many options for varying the scene -- Ostia Antica, Tivoli with villa Adriana and Villa d'Este come to mind. Or a day trip to Orvieto.

You might also do something like 5 nights Paris, fly to Venice for two nights and then finish with 5 in Rome. Venice is a place that does repay a quick stop if you spend it wandering about and not doing museums and other tourist sites.

The problem with multiple destinations in a short period is you burn a lot of time and energy on getting there rather than being there. And with 4 people, someone is going to have an upset stomach or a cold or whatever at some point which could cancel out an entire stop.

I would personally pick France or Italy with such a short time. Then you don't waste precious time during your trip in airports. You will have fun in either country.

12 days = 11 nights in Europe (I hope) ??

Arrive in Paris (4 nts)
Fly to Venice or Florence (3 or 4 nts)
Train to Rome (3 or 4 nts)

12 days is not 11 nights, it is 13 nights. It takes 2 nights to get a full day in a place and the day you arrive is mostly a waste and the day you leave entirely a waste.

Hi pmurray10

Personally I would do exactly as you suggest, 3 nights in each. You have picked the two best possible destinations so look no further. I find that you can get to a saturation level in big cities first time round so its no bad thing not to over do it, just cherry pick the main sights and get a feel for the place.

When you've got kids in tow as well that's even more of a factor. Mine found Rome way too hot, but were delighted when I took them along to the nearby beach, which wasn't what I initially had in mind at all.

Best

Peter

It is true that if you want to spend 11 days in a place you need to stay 12 nights (as you don't count arrival and departure days). However, if someone describes a trip as being 12 days, it usually means they have been away 11 nights, arriving home on the 12th day.

Oh my gosh! This is the first time I have ever requested information from a blog like this - how wonderful. Thank you all so much for your advice! You are all an unbelievable resource!

I've always considered the journey itself as part of the trip enjoyment. Therefore, for something completely different--

Fly to Paris, stay 3 nights
Train to Switzerland (4 hrs), 2 nights in Lucerne
Train to Florence (5.5 hrs), stay 3 nights
Train to Rome (1.5 hrs), stay 3 nights
Fly home from Rome

European train travel is a pleasure, reasonably-priced & comfortable. Rail travel through the Alps is spectacular. And all things considered with centrally-located train stations, airport security, etc., you really don't lose that much more time by taking a train over flying. We took this route in March of this year and it was wonderful.

Just took the train to and from Paris/Norwich and it boggles the mind that anyone thinks the traveling part of travel is a pleasure. To each his own. I like being there not getting there and Zurich is probably my least favorite city in Europe thus far. 2 full days which is what 3 nights get you is tragic for great cities like Paris, Rome and Florence unless you have no choice. In planning a vacation you always have a choice to choose a more complete experience.

So the OP needs to decide which style of travel will be more rewarding to his or her family -- these are two very different philosophies of travel -- what I call 'hit and run' but someone who enjoys this would call seeing more in less time versus spending some time in a place and really getting to know more than its top 5 highlights. You have to know which kind of traveler you are when planning a trip like this.

Janet--

I think you need to put yourself in the shoes of the OP, and not your own as a well-seasoned traveler. I've seen your blog and while it's great & I recommend it wholeheartedly, your amount of travel over the years might be making you look at the experience of travel in a slightly sardonic way. Efficient, worthwhile travel is not all about a checklist of sights. I liked changing trains in Basel, Switzerland and seeing what that was all about. I liked experiencing Milano Centrale, with the crowds & the gypsies. When you've only done Europe a couple times like I have, everything is new & fun, even the screw-ups. You miss a train? So what--there's always the next one. It's still better than being at home in Chicago, and at work.

As you've said, whatever floats your boat...enjoy your planning, OP!

I would suggest making a list of all the sights you want to see in each country. Allow 1/2 day to a full day for each sight. That will help you decide how much time to spend in each country. If the list is too long to divide - then you may have to plan 2 trips. I have found it is best to take your time with the sights you really want to see than try to cram too much in and just get to glance at important sights. I am currently planning my 3rd trip to Paris and I still have not covered my entire list.

Jay we didn't do Rome until our 4th trip to Italy. On our first trip over 30 years ago before internet planning we rented an apartment in the countryside and explored Tuscany for a couple of weeks. It isn't about how much we have traveled, it is about what we think the most rewarding style of travel.

It isn't about new or old travel -- it is about what gives you pleasure. Different people have different things that work for them. Newbies benefit from different points of view. There was never a time in my travels when the crowds at Milano Centrale would have delighted me and the least fun for me is checking in and out of hotels, rushing to and from airports and trains and traveling on trains and planes. Just got back from a side trip to Norwich from Paris -- the Eurostar is unpleasant at best and we didn't find it exciting when the London Tube stations linking our regional train and the Eurostar station were closed down necessitating a circuitous route that threatened a missed connection. Missing the connection in London on the way there was also not the kind of excitement that brings us pleasure just a hassle.

Trips where you try to 'see as much as possible' especially traveling with a family can end up with lots of logistics and nowhere near enough time enjoying being in these wonderful places.

I know that some people really like to cover ground and 'see' a maximum number of cities in a short time. I only suggest that the OP think carefully about what will be most fun for her family. In her shoes and wanting France and Italy I would choose two destinations and fly open jaw and between those destinations. I think she will get more from her trip. But she is in the driver's seat of course about her final choices.

Believe me, Janet, I wasn't exactly 'delighted' with the goings-on at Milano Centrale! It was fine & dandy as long as we had plenty of time until our connection to Florence, and I was having fun surveying the situation and trying to figure out who was trying to pickpocket whom. If we were scrambling for a train, however, I might not have been whistling a happy tune...

But point well taken about trying to winnow it down to the eternal question: personally, what is the most rewarding style of travel?

I am a planner to a fault, and the Internet feeds my phobia. That being said, I have learned to develop a planning philosophy for European travel that works, e.g. making hotel/B&B/apartment reservations well in advance at desired locations within walking distance to attractions. It's amazingly easy to get a lay of the land of someplace you've never been before with Google Earth and a good online map.

Also, utilizing the SBB and Trenitalia websites again in advance to book trains to optimize cost reductions, desired departure/arrival times, leaving ample leeway for connections. Finally, I have really gotten into traveling off-peak season, meaning November through April. Not everyone likes that and there may be inclement weather to deal with at times, but we aren't beach people anyway. And most importantly, the fact that there aren't hordes of tourists means no lines, queues, crowds, which really lowers our stress level. I love it.

Once these reservations have been booked, that's where my 'etched in stone' part ends. Everything else is 'what do we feel like doing today'? For example, we just spent 5 nights in early March at a Florence apartment on Piazza Santa Maria Novella, within walking distance from the train station. We had potential daytrips planned--Fiesole, Siena, Pisa, Lucca. And we did none of it, opting to shop daily at the Mercato Centrale or the CONAD grocery for prosciutto, cheese, honey, fruit, and just wander all day. We'd see some hidden Florence gems, look out our 2nd story window facing the square around dusk, listening to the guitar & accordion players, ending with a leisurely dinner at a trattoria and finally gelato across the piazza. Our plans in Paris basically worked the same way. That time of year, no real need for dinner reservations, although we did at the hot spots. The Louvre was tremendous on a weekday morning with no tourists. But there was a lot of wandering there as well, and plenty of step-climbing at the Metro stops!

But this is the way we like it. Friends ask us, didja do this or see that? No, not really. Planned spontaneity, I call it.

I'm one that often likes to stay put a bit and get to know a city. When I traveled with my teenager, that's not what I did. I prepared her to travel alone. I think Jay's itinerary is quite interesting and relaxing, and would certainly be a good source of information for your kids. I, too, think a vacation should begin when I lock my door at home. I take it all as interesting, but I'm a people and systems watcher. I, too, find train travel much more interesting than a flight. I love to walk from my hotel to the train station, relax, snack, read and enjoy the scenery as I approach the next city. Jay's itinerary would also provide the kids with much information on logistics for their solo adventures in Europe, which will begin soon.

An alternative would be the overnight train from Paris to Venice, in a sleeper. I'd suggest that means of travel. Leave Paris in the evening and awake in Italy! I think the kids would get a kick out of that as well, whether you sleep well or not (I sleep well on the train.) Then, after 2-3 days you could take the train to Florence or Rome. I prefer Florence to Rome and if you are not used to large, congested cities, I would stress Florence because it is so walkable with easy day trips if you are not satisfied (can't imagine why you wouldn't be though, LOL).

But this is just what I do, so please, no one insult me (still recovering from a prior post response a week ago in another section). You need to decide what you'd like to try, obviously. Best wishes for a great family trip! Wray