Thinking of Moving to France? One couple's experience

A friend sent me this link earlier. I have to say my jaw dropped at these statements!

"Joanna says she isn't a fan of the food in France and finds it hard to find good produce."

"I miss frozen yogurt — because they don’t have it here."

My word...is all I can say.

I hope they are happy back in San Francisco.

Several quotes come to mind….”You’re not in Kansas anymore” and “There’s no place like home”…..

When I read this earlier today, I had a few key thoughts:

1) underscores the need to learn the language of the place to which one is moving....BEFORE one moves there.
2) the wife missed socializing, but did not want to hang out with expats (but had not learn how to speak French; busy unpacking, etc.)
3) She had issues with produce available, etc. Wise to sort of do a "recon" of where one might choose to move first. Or if she spoke the language and could interface with others, she may have been able to get recommendations for better places to shop for certain items.
Edited to add item # 4)
4) Earlier today when I read to my husband the challenge she was having finding a doctor who would take new patients, BOTH of us said at the same time "Sounds like the United States." Lots of long-time doctors retiring and lots of practices full.

I think the article serves as a good warning for people who might uproot and move to another country BEFORE doing their homework and BEFORE learning how to speak the language of said country.

The couple was "brave" to tell their story. When I read it on cnn.com this morning, there were no reader comments (yet)....I will have to take a look to see what readers may have posted since then.

interesting is right

I haven’t really found time to hunker down and start learning French,” she admits.

‘I haven’t talked to one person here in three months…’ I just miss interacting,” As time went on, Joanna found that this lack of socialization was having a huge impact on her.

Joanna hoped to interact and socialize without learning a word of French and wanted to find Martini on all the menus Obviously she is disappointed...

Especially since in a supermarket a piece of celery fell over :))

And she says she considers herself an "adaptable" person. And yet...

Yikes.
They “lived “ in Nimes previously…….did they forget that everyone speaks French? In France?
No sympathy, sorry.

"...miss frozen yogurt." Then do without it. What's more important, being in France or this frozen yogurt. ?

Mary,
Buy some yogurt, add some confiture if you like, put in your freezer. I have done this here at home. Works with all types of yogurt, in my experience.
Yum!

Mary,
Can't find good produce in France?????!!!!!
Does this person miss the wax on the fruit or the unripe melons or tasteless hard tomatoes?

In our expat group, a woman who lived in Nimes (who happens to be a relocation specialist) said there is an outdoor farmers market 200 meters from where the woman is standing in the grocery photo.

To meet people, Nimes has 700 organizations to join, including Brits Nimes, while Montpellier has over 1,000.

We don't use stalk celery for cooking in France. We use the root. If it's ever for sale, it's sold by the branch. Move somewhere, learn the local recipes and what to eat in which season. One common thread on expat forums is new arrivals missing foods.

Montpellier has multiple excellent, family owned gelato and ice cream shops. Some sell frozen yogurt.

I don't think they intended to stay because they kept the San Francisco apartment. Instead of introspection, they are blaming the culture.

But I'm glad they wrote this because too many people move without self-knowledge or knowledge of what is really needed. If people don't speak the language, they will be in an expat colony or depend on locals who speak some English no matter where. I hope they are happy and have learned a lesson or two. They aren't the first to turn around after a few months or a year.

You need to speak the language, and you need to do this or do that ….. No, you need to know what you are getting into, and you have to decide if you are in the right frame of mind to overcome the obstacles and enjoy the perks.

We have several RS members that have sucessfully made the move. For me it was a 20-year process to end here. I think I could have done it equally successfully if it had been a 5-year process, but for me, at least that much planning time.

At their age they should have had their doctors set up a year or two earlier. I’ve had some of my doctors for going on 10 years now …. Even though I’ve only been a resident a couple of years.

I don’t speak the language, and never will (dog is too old for new tricks). Most locals speak English well and if I want something more intimate there are plenty of expats in town and a few groups and organizations that pull them together.

Theirs was a poor, uninformed execution of a good idea, which is surprising given how much time they have spent in Europe.

But the comments are also off base.

Or in their case, expat wannabes. No, by definition they were expts. Why be nasty about it? What purpose does it serve? People in other countries also have to go to work, take kids to school, figure out dinner, go to the doctor. And your point? Yet the fantasy is we will go to a foreign country and just be absorbed in with the locals. I have never known anyone tha thought like that. That's hyperbole compared to finding the challenges beyond your willingness to address them.

"et the fantasy is we will go to a foreign country and just be absorbed in with the locals." I have never known anyone tha thought like that.

Me neither, but what I have seen is people thinking they will have the same lives but transported to another country. People leave when they realize that they won't be able to handle major health problems in English. or someone in the US needs long-term care, or it's just becomes too difficult for them.

I've seen unrealistic ideas based on the assumption that systems work the same: plans to buy a house after 30 days, when there are no buyer's agents, no multiple listings, owners are present during showings, closing can take 6 months. It's totally different.

Even we, bilingual French citizens, had our ups and downs adapting to a changed society when we returned to France. It's never easy; it's not for everyone.

Elizabeth, I agree.

In the early years it wasn’t my plan to move here. But over the years I found myself interacting with society in more and more ways. Before I moved here I knew about taxes because I owned some profit producing real estate. I knew about inheritance issues for the same reason. When my US insurance company refused to pay for a diagnostic exam that would cost me about $5.000 out of my own pocket I had it done here and got a little insight into the medical system. Since I have some chronic medical issues, I got local doctors to know the details and write prescription just in case. But it took many years to get to the point I could say I could move and know when I was getting into. Still not perfect. Next week I will hire a translator to go with me to the city office to change my address (you have to register where you live here .... imagine that in the US LOL).

But, just like some think its too easy, there are those that think its too hard, impossible even. Its really not if you go in with a willingness to learn and an open mind..

I don't want to be too harsh on this couple because in a way, I think it is brave of them to share their struggles and mistakes in a CNN article.

That said, especially since the couple does not speak French, I think it was a huge mistake to avoid the expat community, who would have been able to offer pertinent guidance regarding French rules & regulations, bank accounts, cars, grocery shopping/food, medical care, frozen treats, French lessons, moving costs, etc., and provided them with friendship/community. She could have reached out to the expat community (due to the language barrier) and also branched out and made friends with locals. Had she done this, I think she would have most likely had a much better experience in France.

Veteran-Traveler, I think the most significant thing that seperates Americans from the rest of the world is the level of self-deprecation that Americans are capable of. I have known or been aquainted with a number of foreign nationals that walked into the US with the same sort of attitude that those two ladies exhibited in France. Underestimating the circumstances isnt something universally American.

Lane...very well stated.

It all depends on the level of one's expectations when moving aboard or life style. Missing the frozen yogurt I see that as trivial.

More important is making contact with an ex-pat if socializing is important as a support group and an integral part of your value system and personality. If so, seek out such a group. If not, don't bother.

Her lack of the language is not only a distinct disadvantage in the day to day life but also linguistically deficient. I see having, at least, a modest ability in speaking it, let along proficiency or even fluency of the language as vitally important.

She should have researched more the cultural cues and social history of the French.

"As time went on, Joanna found that this lack of socialization was having a huge impact on her."
What a perfect Far Side cartoon this would make.

@Lindy

!!!!!!!

I have reread the CNN article and am still flabbergasted by the woman's comments about French food. They are hard to get out of my head. She seems to think the French eat only pate and brie and breads and pastries. Just a cursory scan of any French cookbook, or a brief inquiry with anyone there even in stilted English or French and with hand gestures, and she would find that people in France have soups, stews, roasts, chicken, steamed or sauteed vegetables, pasta, pizza., sausage, egg dishes............

Look at a menu in a bistro and you see a normal combination of dishes. It almost seems as if they deliberately ignored the clues out there for all to see. (Maybe I am being too critical. Perhaps she doesn't do much cooking in the US either, and maybe relies on prepared foods or frozen dishes, and thus doesn't see what she is used to in the US.) When I am someplace where I can cook when I am in France, I find that I don't need to make many accomodations to my recipes, except for Mexican dishes (hard to find ingredients).
The ingredients are delightful, veggies and fruits don't seem to have been harvested rock hard and unripe. And, of course,the farmers' markets are a treat!

Forgive the mini-rant. As I said, I am flabbergasted!

Bon appetit!

Just another indication that the ladies didn't do their research. In France I always eat like a local: KFC, Burger King, McDonalds ...

It is hard to move yo another country, especially when you are older. As many here know, my husband is from Croatia and we have an apt here in Rijeka. Not a big tourist city but that is changing with the arrival of cruise ships.
We have talked about moving here upon retirement, at least my husband has, I just listen because I knew from visits years ago it would be difficult to adjust.
We do have family and friends there and I do know enough of the language to get around by myself but would never to go to a doctor appt. Without my husband. BUT, I would miss my friends, family, neighborhood, church, etc if we left. I’ve lived in the same neighborhood my entire life and am very familiar with my surroundings. Many of my friends are from grammar school and I would never be able to make new friendships like these. I’m just too old for a major change like that.
So, anyone considering a move to another country, I wish you only the best.

Maggie and Lane, I agree that it was brave of her to speak out about this (and agree with Lane about touching base with expats). There's nothing wrong with trying something and admitting that you made a mistake. I think living abroad would be very hard, and yes, she didn't speak the language, which would have helped, but she was honest about what she did and didn't do. Someone made a comment about produce being waxy, but if she is from California, they have some of the best produce in the country.

Bottom line, it sounds like they tried but did not anticipate all the hurdles. So what? We all make mistakes. We all make bad decisions. Personally, I think the article was very helpful because it showed exactly what hurdles they face. Maybe someone who wants to go that same route will look at this article and realize what they should do differently.

Well said, Mardee.

Personally, I think the article was very helpful because it showed
exactly what hurdles they face.

You beat me to it Mardee. I'm busy writing a trip report about France and I'm including mistakes, my lack of love for French food, and the lack of English spoken. Maybe that's a Captain Obvious moment but as far as I'm concerned all are helpful topics to bring up.

Good to see this flip side of all the expat porn that people are able to sell

Okay so they have a rent-controlled apartment in California that they don’t live in. Is that even legal? Probably, but no idea. And how does someone who flips houses and is wealthy enough to live in countries around the world qualify for a rent-controlled apartment?

They lived in the UK for 13 years, meaning they had to get a residency visa. That could not have been just “simple”. But when moving to France they didn’t think to get the residency Visa started before a long-term rental?

They lived in France for 2 months but didn’t realize they didn’t like to food?

They didnt check on the requirements for the cat before they moved?

I’ve opened a bank account in the EU, not sure what problems they could possibly have. Not much different than opening one in the US. Just more ID required.

I think there is more to this than is being said. Maybe they needed money to move back home and somehow writing a negative piece pays well?

The CNN article was also successful in France. :))

It was partially republished and commented on yesterday in a local newspaper, and also on BFM, a news TV channel.

Merci for posting this Mary, it was very interesting. Many couples have the relocation fantasy, as shown in the additional linked stories. An old female friend's brother successfully relocated to Montpelier in the late eighties. Started a cafe there with his French-born wife. When my friend went to visit them for the first time (also first time to France) in summer 1990, she had no sooner unzipped her suitacse up in her room, when her bro came to the door and tossed her an apron:
"We don't get a single day off here during high season. When you're ready to put in a shift, come downstairs."

LOL! I don't think my friend realized that her sightseeing was going to have to wait.

*PS the Gipsy Kings band live and own a recording studio nearby.
I am done. the end

Funny story. Remember, it’s double-L, Gregg, Montpellier. In Vermont it's one-L. The Gypsy Kings are nearby in Arles, at least Chico and his family are.

At an expat coffee this morning, I talked to the relocation specialist who worked with these people on their Nimes apartment. She says they were happy with everything at that time. They didn't hire this company for the Montpellier move.

We have to wonder what the woman actually said in the interview, what question prompts were used, and what was then chosen for the article. Example: prompt-- what's the craziest thing you miss? Answer: believe it or not it's frozen yogurt.

Makes good click-bait.

Yeah I found the timeline utterly confusing. I have no idea how long they lived in London, when they spent the prior two months in Nimes, etc.

Thst's a good point about what were the interview prompts.

And I do admire them for being willing to share their “failure.”

I can't get past things like being surprised how much it would have cost to get their car and their cat here, especially when they had lived overseas before. I can't imagine it's that much cheaper to get either of those to the UK!

The idea that they can't find good food blows my mind. And of course as someone pointed out, French people don't eat only paté, Brie, and bread and pastries. Absurd !!

But to my mind, the absolutely craziest part is complaining about being socially isolated when you both don’t speak the language AND are insistent you don't want to hang out with expats. How in the world did they expect to be able to meet people ??? I guess they could have borrowed Arthur Dent's Babelfish.

Well who wants to read another article about wealthy people living the good life with no problems? I too suspect the author twisted things a bit. But before I read it, I assumed it was going to be about some tech-wealthy millennials, not older experienced socialites like these folks.

Something that was said in another travel context, was that travelers aren't invited guests, and shouldn't expect that the locals are delighted that some foreigners are moving in. No one has an obligation to be welcoming and open. The burden is on the newcomers to fit in.

Saw that article and @#$. Had the pleasure of working and living in Paris for 2 1/2 years in mid 1980’s with wife, son 2 yrs old and daughter 10 mos. When we arrived in Paris, neither of us spoke a lick of French. 1st couple weeks when shopping we’d simply open our hand and let the merchant take. After a few months we were metro savvy, and loved Lenotre!

We totally enjoyed our time there even though work kept interfering? Would retire there in a heartbeat if only I could win the lottery first.

I cannot imagine being of "retirement" age and apparently having been successful in their prior employment and wealthy enough to afford two homes so the couple can "get away from each other" and yet fail to do the necessary searching and preparation before making such a drastic move.
Typically one spouse passes away before the other... There comes a time when one of the pair must survive, and hopefully thrive, as a single. Was this ever considered?
Americans make "fast friends", but friendships in France must develop over time. They are cautious and selective in creating their circle of friends. Not relying on the support of the expat community was a poor decision.
What senior citizen relocates, even within the US, without first researching available medical and dental care?
Enough bashing...
Through the CNN article Joanna has shared her experience and provided important points for those thinking about relocating. Thank you Joanna.

Here they are again. This time London.
https://crr.bc.edu/retirees-do-a-stint-in-london-and-why-not/

Fascinating find!

When the hell did they EVER live in their rent-controlled apartment ??!! And why do they need it since they brag about being rich ??!!

It cost practically as much to ship the cat to the Uk as it did to France !!! So what were they complaining about

And this presents an absolutely different timeline (year) for them living in London than what they told CNN?! CNN reported they moved to London in 2011, while this article, which talked to them when they were living in London, says 2021 (and is filled with details about moving there during the pandemic, which seems to hold more water). CNN didn’t fact check their article very well (if at all ) — no wonder it was confusing.

In May 2021, the couple, feeling trapped by the pandemic in their sleepy town in the Sierra Foothills east of San Francisco, decided to break out and trade rural life for 11 months in London.

no mention of their rent controlled apartment in SF???

I guess they sublet. Is that legal in SF? I know it isn't in London.

I also take issue with the CNN statement that they moved out of London because they couldn't afford to live there anymore. Really?- with the money from the sale of their property in San Francisco, yet they can afford to spend $4,000 to ship a cat over, to London then $5,000 again to France, and had previously had two properties in the states (and bought and sold 3 more in 15 years).
They were living in Ealing, one of the more affordable parts of London.

I've just been through Stewardship month at my Churches in Wokingham (a pretty prosperous part of Berkshire, England) and Seattle. The median income in Wokingham was cited by the Vicar as £35,000 pa (I was surprised how low that was), in Seattle it was quoted as $115,000. I nearly fell off my chair at how high that figure was, but really should not have been so surprised. I doubt San Francisco is much different.

Where I live in the UK (western edge of the Lake District) you can rent a nice 3 bedroomed flat for about £500 a month (or a very good house for about £1,000 a month. A one bed place you should get for about £400 a month.
In a town in the Cascades over the Snoqualmie Pass from Seattle this week even the locals were a bit shocked when a one bed, one bath house was put on the rental market for $2,000 a month, so over heated is the housing market there. And the owner will get that rent as well. But even I know (with my very limited knowledge) that in that town several people are living year round in their cars because of the prices.
At my Church in Seattle we pray every month for those who have died unhoused in the City that month- always a desperately sobering litany of names, which can only list those who are known about.
At home here in the Lake District we have people travelling from my home town to work 2 hours each way every day just to earn the minimum wage cleaning Holiday lets.
Things are all pretty relative.

rent controlled apartment in SF???

For 50 years? While they were wealthy? I thought rent control was a way to redistribute wealth, not subsidize the wealthy? If this is legal, It shouldnt be. But even if it is legal, it says a lot about the people. From that part on the story was meaningless.

@Nigel, it is legal to sublet a rent controlled apartment in SF as long as you have the landlord’s approval, which can be implied. The majority (60%) of rental units in San Francisco are rent controlled. Essentially any apartment in a building built before 1979 is rent controlled.

Rent-controlled and rent-stabilized are two different mechanisms to prevent huge rent increases, generally in expensive urban areas in older buildings with long-term tenants, and do not necessarily have anything to do with income. Subsidized rentals are rentals that go for less than the "going rate", depending on income. So, the couples' "wealth" has nothing to do with her rent-controlled apartment in SF. It's the fact that the entire building is rent-controlled or stabilized, and she has lived there 40 years.

But she's apparently been living everywhere but there -- Russian River Valley, London, France ..... No wonder the housing crisis is so severe if rich people can hold onto rent-controlled or -stabilized apartments. Nobody else gets a chance to get in.

There is a saying about the past, used at times when people today judge the actions of those who lived generations, if not centuries, ago--the past is like a foreign country, they do things differently there.

I cannot imagine moving to a country like France without being at least nearly fluent in language. But to be honest, I cannot imagine relocating to a foreign country. (I recently saw the Tina Turner musical--amazing!--and I know that Tina eventually became a Swiss citizen, but she became fluent in German, her husband was German-speaking, and financially she was probably better off than some on this forum.) Now, if I had hedge fund, a few months in London or Oxford every year would be nice. But even in the UK, the friction experienced living in a foreign country would mount.

One final note: I personally find French food overrated. Yep, totally subjective, but French cuisine is not my favorite.

I think it's brave they told their stories. Too many people have watched House Hunters Intl and believe they can just move anywhere without learning the language. Imagine living in the US and not speaking English. Yes, you can get by, but the norms, good stores and interaction would be limited.

And fellow expats are not always the enlightened people Americans think. Many can be as annoying as everyone and either complaining about the locals or talking about how they never go near fellow expats because they want to be true natives.

Being an expat is a challenging and difficult journey both emotionally and financially. It's not for everyone and I always tell folks I know that move back to the US not to be ashamed. Not everyone is cut out for that life.

Rent control is alive and well in SF and it will stay that way if not strengthened. It applies to apts too.

I have known French and Americans (2 different parties) living in CA fluent in the language, obviously, originally immigrants , and having spent a good deal of their working life here made the decision to relocate to France in their retirement. They wanted to go back.

Money was not an issue for them but they couldn't take it over there for various reasons, ie, lack of socialization was only one reason as well as having been too Americanized , etc , and end up moving back to the Bay Area. Knowing yourself and what you are willing to sacrifice, ie the live style here, friends, if that is a priority, food choices, and so on. is absolutely essential.

Being an expat is a challenging and difficult journey both emotionally and financially.

You can say that again. 100% agree.

Rewarding and frustrating, heartbreaking and inspiring. All of it is true, often simultaneously.

I have done it four times in three different countries (one of them, as a child, I had no choice in, but found myself abroad just the same). Each one of them enriched me, and each one of them made me crazy.

Of course I could say the same for leaving home for college, leaving Oklahoma for NY and Boston, etc ....although supposedly there is no language barrier between the heartland and the east coast (winking emoji).

Being an expat is a challenging and difficult journey both emotionally
and financially.

Maybe. Everyones experience is bound to be different. I know some folks living in Mexico whou would argue about the financial hardship.

It's not for everyone and I always tell folks I know that move back to
the US not to be ashamed. Not everyone is cut out for that life.

Not sure why they would be ashamed?

Well, financially challenging at the very least in figuring things out (figuring out how financial things work, that is), not that the new country is necessarily always more expensive.

Yes, everyone's experience is indeed different. If money is not a pressing issue, then one has to deal with the emotional factor. That in itself and of itself could be decisive if one is going make it or not .

In Germany and Austria too I know of 2 couples: Americans having married German or Austrian and decided to be an ex-pat. The American woman had to learn the language from the start, her German husband was fluent in English. I speak with them in German and English, it's not me any good speaking with them. After more than 2 decades in North Germany, they're still there together, having raised a family , etc. Dealing with emotional factor is a real personal and individual concern in all its aspects, assuming you're willing to deal with it.

The couple in Austria is a bit different but also similar, both university grads, both fluent in German and English, both 20 years my junior, both still working and professional types. The American guy had no problems leaving CA, emotionally, financially .

RE: an ex-pat group, I know for sure not with my friend in Austria, not his concern. Never asked the couple in Germany , and the topic has never come up.

Well, financially challenging at the very least in figuring things out
(figuring out how financial things work, that is), not that the new
country is necessarily always more expensive.

Kim, so true. A sense of humor becomes essential.

I don't meet any of the criteria being discussed by those who haven't done it and I am enjoying my life here. For how long? Today I think i die here, tomorrow I might change my mind.

I hope not to retread on the comments, but add a few things in perspective. I completely agree with the fact that they had made little to no effort to learn the language, but shunned expats, the very people who could have helped them in their journey of adaptation and formed a pathway to better socialization. A few comments:

a. The whole thing about frozen yogurt is just bizarre. There literally is a chain of frozen yogurt shops called Yogurt Factory, with a branch in Montpellier. That statement just shows a lack of resourcefulness. All I had to do was google it. It is also in larger supermarkets and Picard.

b. There are medical deserts in France. Nimes is not one of them but getting an english language doctor may be more rare. This is not a problem in larger metros and places with more expats. There is an easy to use online system to find availabilities. In fact, that system is much easier than the systems in the US.

c. It is possible for people to get by with little language skills at first (but you really should get better). You just have to move to areas with a high concentration of expats, like Paris, around Geneve (the French suburbs), the Dordogne or the Cote d'Azur. These areas also tend to have lots of services for hire for things like visa renewal and getting accounts set up. They also have expats there who are often more than willing to help newcomers, as they've been helped in the past.
d. Getting a bank account is tougher since about 2017 and the tightening of FATCA and other related policies, when many French banks started not offer accounts to Americans. However, it is still possible at certain multi-national banks. And like elsewhere in France, an introduction is often helpful.
e. Nimes is a rich agricultural and viticultural region but not as diverse nor as large as Montpellier. If you don't like traditional, rustic French country cuisine then you are better off settling in a more cosmopolitan destination. I love my viennoiseries and my duck confit, but I also enjoy an occasional pizza, pad thai or enchilada. Around my apartment there are Italian, Brazillian, Cuban, Georgian, Chinese (Sichuan and Cantonese), Japanese, Peruvian, Spanish, American, Mexican, Vietnamese, Indian, Lebanese within two blocks, along with Michelin star and Bib Gourmand French (including regional variants).

I would be surprised if a legal resident of France had trouble opening a bank account.

Au contraire cher Mr E. It’s very difficult for Americans because of the FATCA reporting requirements. There are ways, and the government has required a bank to accept an American if three previous banks have rejected them. Some people just use Wise to get around this.

Like I said, I would be surprised (EDIT as it may not have been clear "and was surprised"). I understand the FATCA thing as I have had a Hungarian account for 15 years and my bank sends me notices on it every year, and of course I have to do my own disclosure every year. Here is a good story on it: https://www.bringingeuropehome.com/post/can-an-american-open-a-french-bank-account

Once again, this is about someone doing their homework first. I avoided most issues by working up to this over many years and not just trying to dive in over the weekend.

Good article. The amount of work the writer had to do was probably what the two in the article couldn’t tolerate. A lot of Catch-22 in the process. . The bank in the link, HSBC, no longer exists. The one that wouldn’t insure her does now take some Americans. I also know people who got accounts ay Banque Populaire after trying others. Moving abroad has its challenges and French bank refusals is one.

Each European country is different, as we say so often.

Ah, got it. Thanks. I have deleted my post. Thank you.

As I wrote, the crackdown in France on FACTA happened after 2017 or so, when it became more difficult to open an account and later, to source a loan (due to the compliance overhead). The article linked is interesting is that she concludes it was easy. It indeed is easy, after you find the right bank or the right banker. And the service is exceptional. But I think many would disagree that going through as many steps as listed in the article and call it easy. Because the field of available banks is much smaller, you may not find a bank nearby that accepts Americans. My experience was easy, and before the FATCA crackdown. Our home search consultant made an appointment with her bank and local banker, and made the introduction, and accompanied us on the first meeting. We just pulled 100E to deposit and our passports and soon had an ATM card and checks in hand.

In my situation, not in France, while I have a local bank account, I do not use it. Banking fees in my country are silly. You are charged to put money in, to take money out and for the privilege of having an ATM card. I live out of my US BoA account and ML credit cards. Absolutely no inconvenience at all.

If you have a brokerage account, do ensure that they will keep you on board if you are a resident outside of the US. That can be a problem.

The most interesting part of this whole business to me isn't either the experiences of this worldly couple or the online article discussing them. It's the varied responses by posters here. It sort of highlights who most values kindness and charity.

These two people have led a "DINKS" lifestyle for their entire lives. I do not think that they really understand how the world works outside of their own lives. DINKS = dual income no kids.

No problem with dual incomes, it had better be that way. The problem is their lack of imagination, lack of emotional stamina, lack of the ability to cope and adapt , and linguistic deficiency.

We lived in Italy for 2 1/2 years from 2018 through 2020.

Literally everything this couple mentions was exactly the same in Italy. But our attitudes were different. We did enough research and knew these things would be challenging and time consuming. And we’d just laugh when it took 8 trips to the ASL (healthcare offices) before we paid for the Italian healthcare coverage and found a doctor that would accept us and spoke English.

Opening a bank account and successfully transferring money took over two weeks.

But every time we had success we’d celebrate.

We travelled about 25% of the time and saw lots of Italy and other parts of Europe.

The city we lived in did not have any US expats. And while we were not conversational, we could communicate in Italian.

We would not have traded our experiences for anything! We loved every moment in Italy, but for a variety of reasons decided to not to stay forever, and enjoy our lives in California too.

If you have a brokerage account, do ensure that they will keep you on board if you are a resident outside of the US. That can be a problem.

Not if you have a US address.

The state of South Dakota has a category called "Full Time Traveler" for residency. As long as you do not have an address in the US, you can become a resident of South Dakota with just a private mail box. You can even get a SD drivers license, register to vote, insurance, banking, etc.

The state at first thought that people who live in their RV's would need a legal address and then realized that folks living outside the US might need one as well.

I've been doing this for over 10 years and have had no brokerage company or even the US government bat an eye. And with no state income tax, it's even better.

They're baaaaaaaack

CNN got so many comments on the first article that they went back and talked to the wife after the election.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/12/travel/video/california-couple-moved-to-france-trump-election-digvid

"Nobody tells you the bad things. And there are so many bad things. . . of going to any country, I'm sure. But you need to know about those. You need to know about, you know, filing your tax returns. You need to know about how to register your car. This is hard stuff. And the French government makes it really, really difficult."

"Then you go to the market, oops -- and the produce is so terrible. . . "

They're baaaaaaaack

These folks need a life!

FrankII, I do believe that we have this disagrement in the past. There is a difference between having a US Address and being a Tax Resident of a country other than the United States.

IF you are a TAX RESIDENT of a country other than the United States a great many of the big boy US fiancial institutions will ask you to remove your accounts. There are exceptions and there are institutions that have different policies for a small list of other countries.

When are you a Tax Resident? When the country you are residing in says that you are. Generally, but I dont pretend to know the laws in over 180 countries, if you spend 6 months and a day as a legal resident (actually my country says 180 days) of that country they will claim the ability to tax your worldwide earnings. At that point you are a Tax Resident of the country. There are exceptions for student and other circumstances but that is up to each country to define.

You can have 100 US addresses and a drivers licenses in 6 US states and be registred to vote in Podunk County, NJ, but you are still a tax resident of another country and ML among others will send you packing (in most circumstances).

Now, if you never tell them .... you know, a lie of omission, well, that is a sort of fraud isnt it? Maybe not, maybe just a personal ethical issue. Not sure what the contract with the financial institiution says. I suspect that the situation is covered and you will be in violation of something. But just a guess.