Question about "Long stay visa and residence permit in France"

Technically, I believe the long stay visa for France only gives you the right to stay in France for an extended stay, not all the other Schengen countries. This can be difficult to enforce because of the lack of border checks but something to be aware of.

FWIW when we had a long stay visa for Italy, we spent a month of our time in Paris and flew home from Amsterdam. This was disclosed on the front end and didn't seem to create any issues. We spent the first couple months in Italy and had a permisso there.

As far as the taxes are concerned, and not being an expert on French tax law, I would say if you become legally a resident of France (which is what you are applying to be when you apply for a visa), then you are liable to pay French income tax on all your income for the duration of your stay.
I would guess your registration with the OFI, and staying more than 6 months, would decide the start date.
And, a French visa does not exempt you from the 90/180 day limit for other Schengen countries, even if it is unenforceable.

Even if you are out of France, visiting another country during your residence visa period, you are still legally a resident and liable to tax on all your income, wherever it originates. It is only when you formally move residence out of France does your liability end.
Enjoy filling in a French tax form!
Hopefully you can get out of paying US taxes while you are not resident in the country.

To be a resident of France you must spend about one-half of a year in France (180-185 days). That generally would provide sufficient basis to the French authorities that you are a French resident and subject to French taxes. If you truly are committed to 60 days or less in France, I can't imagine that you should have any concerns about tax liability in France.

That said, I think your ideas about French tax rates are naïve and reflect inaccurate presumptions on your part. Don't confuse published tax rates with actual tax liability. That would be a mistake in the U.S., and it would be a mistake in France.

And... why the bias against attorneys (avocats)? You seem fixated on consultants when, in fact, an attorney may very well be your best resource.

Take it easy, John from Florida/Alaska.

I've never seriously explored the prospect of getting a long-stay visa from a Schengen country, but the subject comes up on this forum from time to time. It's my impression that it will not be easy to convince the French consular authorities of your need for a long-stay visa when you do not actually intend to spend more than 90 days in France. I think those visas are intended for students and others with a plan to stay for an extended period.

You will not be liable for French tax on U.S. income.

Thanks folks for your comments.

K, you make valid points regarding marginal vs. effective rates and sourcing information. It's likely that this visa won't serve my intended purpose, because I learned that the Schengen terms and conditions would still apply to a holder of a French long stay visitor visa. At least this is my current assumption. I think I got off base thinking that this visa would allow me to travel Europe unfettered, staying in France for only about 2 months. This assumption seems false, based strictly on Schengen terms, and I'm not a rule breaker. Even if one were to hypothetically ignore the visa's formalities, the more recent reinstituted border controls would seem to curtail that option, I suppose. The lawyer issue is personal to my value placed on the visa. If I had to engage legal on this issue, (e.g., the was more complicated than mere administrative), then that added cost due to the complexity of my circumstances would negate the visa's value. Yes, the visa would be nice, but I don't need it. I'm doing the trip either way.

Looks like I'll be dancing the Schengen Shuffle; it's simple and free. Oh well.

Thanks again folks.

John, "the more recent reinstituted border controls". Border controls have not been re-instated. This is something that got into the headlines a few years ago, was only ever in a few places, and went away after the fuss died down a few months later, but it persists as an urban myth.
On some borders, sometimes, there is somebody watching the people pass, and picking out a few dubious characters and asking them for ID. No way do they check passports. With thousands crossing on each road or rail route every hour, there is no way they could check every traveller, that would be a waste of time and money. I cross intra-Schengen borders weekly, and have not been stopped or asked for ID for years.

"Schengen Shuffle" - what's that? The 90 days in any 180 rule means if your 90 days are up, you need to spend 90 days out of the Schengen area. Hopping back and forth across the border doesn't work.

Hi Chris F,

Good info. Thanks. She Schengen Shuffle is just having to meet the 90/180 terms and conditions; bounding back and forth out of the zone every quarter. My travel goal is purely recreational. I'd either buy a motorhome over there or ship one from the US, then leave it there for a 1-3 years or longer and go back and forth from the US each year. Because my overall trip plan is so long, bounding back every 90 days is something I wanted to avoid with a visa, if that made sense, at least for the first year. So many visa's that may be obtainable seem to be tied to work in some way, such as the German "freelance or self employed" visa. I have no interest in working over there, so these seem to require a more creative application than the French visitor visa. This French long stay visitor's visa seems to be most appropriate, because it appears to be about having income and assets, being "retired", etc., which is all good with me. I don't want to work there nor ever live there beyond the visa. However, I don't intend to "reside" in France during the 12 months, which would require a creative application. It's likely I'd only want to be in France for about 2 of the 12 months, based on traveling in the motorhome around Europe. So if I did the French visa, I guess I'd have to be comfortable with ignoring Schengen formalities and possibly others, regarding residency (not sure). And, I'd have to be comfortable with the residency matters that may possibly trigger income tax compliance matters, if any, for me in France. Even if I owned no tax in France, the costs and brain damage may be prohibitive, if I had to file there, due to the complexity of my finances. I tend to be a stickler with the formalities when it involves tax law.

I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning on just planning to be in Europe for shorter trips over a longer number of years and dance the Schengen Shuffle. I may change my mind as I learn more. The trip starts early 2018, so I'm early in the process.

Chris F,

Your comment, based on my experience, is accurate for train and auto travel across borders. It is, however, inaccurate for plane travel.

I flew to Rome recently for a business meeting (within the last month) and there was no passport check upon arrival in FCO. However, upon my return to LYS, French authorities checked the passport of every passenger on the flight.

Warning -- downer response.

Beyond all the visa and Schengen issues, have you researched the availability of campsites to camp with a caravan? (Note: if you look for mobile home, you'll likely get stationary trailer-type housing.) What are the costs? Are there hook up possibilities? How far away from any town would you be? How would you get into town to do anything? Are campgrounds open in the winter?

Would you be allowed to buy a caravan? What sizes of caravans are available? Would you have to get a French driver license? How much would it cost to buy a caravan? What would you do with it at the end of the trip? Could you rent or lease one for a year?

Could you ship one over? How long would it take to get there? How small would it need to be to drive anywhere you intend to go? What are the potential costs of shipping it over? Are there inspection issues? How about licensing issues for a year?

To me, all that sounds like a bigger can of worms than the long-term visa thing. And you'd have to find out the answers to many of those questions for any countries you plan to drive in.

Somewhat related true story: Canadian friends of ours built a house in Mexico. When it came time to move, they easily drove their SUV and converted-to-camper-bus from BC down here to cross at Nogales. They were stopped at the border. Mexico would not let the bus in. They had to hire a Mexican moving van to take their stuff to San Carlos and park the bus back on the AZ side. It had never occurred to them or anyone else that they needed to do anything special about the bus. It was a huge hassle and they got almost nothing for it when they came back up to Tucson and sold it. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

If you are planning to camp to save money, it may be far more complicated than you can imagine and it might end up being more expensive than renting apartments along the way, especially considering the cost of fuel.

Hi Lo,

Good ideas. I'm traveling fulltime in an RV now. RV travel can be much more economical, especially if one cooks in and "wild camps" outside of campgrounds. In this case, you're paying about what you'd pay at home for food and about nothing for accommodation (offset by fuel cost). I tend not to be that economical, because I like eating out, hitting the cafes, pubs, etc.. Also, I stay in parks about half the time, because I like to chat with locals around a fire, etc. The social aspect of meeting locals, in terms of RV life, is more rich from my experience, than going hotel to hotel, train to train, etc. Because of my "style" of RV travel, I doubt I save much money, but the big benefit is the laid back, "no reservation" type life where you can do what you want, when you want to, with a highly flexible itinerary.

It's not for everyone, but it works for me. Some times when I get feeling claustrophobic, I grab a rental for a few months. I've been in a rental lake house now for 5 months in Seward Alaska and will be in the RV again May 1st.

I've about covered everything I want to see in North America, so Europe is the next step. The logistics aren't that difficult. There are pretty easy answers to your questions. Many people ship RVs to Europe, or just buy them over there or 3-12 month trips. They can be bought in the Netherlands under a sale/ buy back program that legally circumvents the registration/ insurance issues. It's not that hard. This idea to get the French visa might work out, but it looks to be too administratively brain damaging. I'm good with or without it. When I'm ready to go, I may apply if it makes sense. If I get it, fine, if not, I'm going anyway. Altering the trip plan for either circumstance is not an issue.

I met some Australians in Italy in 2015 who had jumped through the hoops necessary to get an extended-stay visa. There were spending most of their time in Italy and leased a small house in Umbria. Although I don't remember the details, there was some sort of issue when it came to buying a car. I believe they had to do something a bit irregular to pull it off.

acraven, Hi. Like all non-residents, I can buy a car there, but I can't register it or insure it. I know folks that get around the rules in ways I wouldn't be comfortable with, in terms of having a reliable insurance contract. But in the Netherlands and the UK, because of their rather unique laws, it's possible to buy a vehicle. The downside is that they aren't new, nice motorhomes, because these sale/ buy back deals are uneconomic unless the vehicle is over about 7 years old. I buy a used vehicle for 20.000 say, and they agree to buy it back in a year for 12.000, so I fly home having "spent" 8.000 for 12 months, or about 22.00 per day. If a person is doing a trip more than about 2 months, this arrangement is cheaper, otherwise renting is better. Plus when you rent, you get a new, nicer vehicle. Anyhow, another benefit of the sale/buy back is that you can toss the thing in storage, fly home for the winter, then return next year for another tour. You don't have to sell it back to them. They just give you a "put option" in the contract at a price, if you want it. Lots of people are doing this from the US, rather than renting for extended RV vacations.

The people who ship them tend to be those who already own them and/or with a strong preference for a newer, nicer vehicle.

Just a couple of things to add...I don't think these things have been covered so far so I'll add my two-cents.
I've stayed in many campgrounds in Europe...you'll find that "caravans" in Europe are considerably smaller than those here for obvious reasons. You are right that buying one in the Netherlands would be the better choice...
I would also make sure to research your idea of "wild" camping in Europe. This isn't really a thing there like it is in the States. Here you can get a permit, walk into the wilderness, and camp in the back country. You can get away with parking in parking lots or out of the way places in your RV and no one will bother you. In Europe this really isn't done in very many places. To expect to park your RV anywhere besides an organized campground may not be an option...things in Europe are a bit more formalized. Campgrounds are extremely comfortable though! Nice grassy lawns, stores, pools, restaurants, etc.
About a French long-stay visa...you do need a residence address in order to get one and you have to check in with the local authorities and declare yourself. After than no one is really going to check. Getting a long term visa is quite an arduous process...13 separate documents with a vast amount of supporting paperwork. Forget one tiny thing at your appointment at the consulate and you'll be turned away. I think doing the Schengen shuffle is the best way to go....England is a great option for this since you can stay up to 6 months on a tourist visa. Since the Schengen restriction is a rolling 90 days in any 180 day period, if you plan it right, spending time in England can really make it quite easy to stay within the time frame.

Thanks Anita,

I've been reading up on wild camping (aka boondocking) in Europe. Also, I had a couple conversations with a very helpful chap named Alan Heath, who is from the UK and travels Europe in a motorhome full time. Alan has a youtube channel and an extensive blog. There appears to be lots of wild camping opportunities - but not in a couple countries that I can't recall - but I suspect they aren't the nice BLM lands like out west in the US. On my rig in the US, I have 960 watts of solar on the roof and an 880 amp hour battery bank, but I'm still a "park rat" at least half the time. I just like the full hookups and social aspects to campgrounds, plus laundry, etc. I tend to budget parks about half the time, which is what I'm figuring for Europe. I'll probably wild camp 90% of the time in easy countries and the inverse if difficult. Plus, there are some areas of southern Europe, at the current time, that I might feel somewhat uncomfortable outside of a park. In those areas, I'd go park to park.

On the visa, I could be creative in the application by renting an apartment somewhere for 3 months, bla bla and most likely get the visa. I'm the right age and with the right economic profile to fit the purpose. But I don't think I'd be comfortable disregarding formalities. Being banned for five years would be awful, plus the fine I suppose. So, I think I'll be putting on my dancing shoes lol

Thanks for your comments

Being banned for five years would be awful

It is often 10, not 5 I'm afraid.