Paris

Where exactly ?

I wouldn’t consider it desirable or central / safe is subjective .

Saint Denis is not in Paris. Are you perhaps referring to staying near Rue Saint-Denis or the Strasbourg-Saint-Denis metro station?

St. Denis is not in Paris; don't stay there. There are streets in Paris named St. Denis and those are fine.

Has anyone stayed in St. Denis lately? There are comments about it on this forum but they are 3 years old. I believe it is in the 18th arrondissement so it might be like a suburb of Paris.

It is not in the 18th which is Paris; it is north of there outside of Paris. It is one of the higher crime areas in the region.

I assume you have a place in mind. It might simplify things if you posted the exact address of where it is you want to stay.

Staying in the 18th is fine but St Denis is not in Paris.

I doubt many on this forum has stayed in Saint-Denis recently for many of the reasons stated so far in this thread. I have been to Saint-Denis to visit the Basilica, but I would not stay there for a trip to Paris and it has nothing to do with the link to the November 2015 Paris attacks. Aside from anything else, it is not central and is dreary looking and most parts of it rely on Metro Line 13 which is awful. I am sure that there are nice parts of Saint-Denis but you would need to provide the address of your accommodations for people to opine on whether your accommodations are in such an area. Without that level of detail, as a general matter, IMO Saint-Denis is in the group at the bottom of the list of potential suburbs to stay in for a vacation in Paris. Last year, I met a woman whose family had stayed in Saint-Denis. She did not know any better and had bought a package trip to Paris from Asia and regretted it but made the best of it. You too could make the best of staying in Saint-Denis but why worry about that if you can avoid it in the first place.

Personally I wouldn't stay out side the A86. There are TWO Paris'. One in insde the A86 and the other is out side. These are entirely two different worlds. I say this from direct experience as we ventured outside the ring several times. In side the A86 everything seemed safe. Outside, you begin to notice the smashed windows of parked cars, the scam artists were a bit thick, and you can see the drug problem; needles on the ground and such. If you have a choice, I'd find lodging inside the ring road.

There are TWO Paris'. One in insde the A86 and the other is out side.

There is only one Paris, just like there is only one Manhattan. Paris consists of 20 arrondissements and is broadly contained within the confines of the périphérique. Once outside of the arrondissements, (or department 75) one is outside Paris and in a different city.

There is also a distinction in one´s personal safety between being in Paris (generally very safe) and outside (safety varies), particularly to the north, northeast, of portions to the south.

Broadly, the area immediately outside of Paris, departments 92, 93, and 94 which contain A86, is known as la Petite Couronne (or the small crown).

We are looking at a BnB on Rue Leon Nozal, Sainte-Denis, Ile-de-France 93210 because it is fairly reasonable. Per Rick's book the last two numbers of the zip code are the arrondissement. It is 1.2 miles from the Metro Blue Line. Does that give you enough information to know if it's a safe neighborhood?

You have misread the advice RS gives. The last two numbers here are NOT the arrondissement if by that you mean Paris arrondissments. IF it were 75010, it would be in the tenth arrondissement of Paris which is perfectly fine and in Paris. This is not in Paris; for that to be true the zip code begins with 75. There are lots of cheap hotels IN Paris; why choose a potentially unsafe distant suburb with the reputation St. Denis has. You seem determined, so give it a shot and review it here when you get back. There are a bunch of cheap hotels at the end of the 3 line just over the border in Gallieni -- this is a much better area if you are committed to being outside Paris. There is no metro blue line; metros are by number and a mile and a half from the metro is a monumentally bad idea.

You might want to try rue Leon Nozal on Google street maps and do a street walk. Rue Nozal seems to be a short street of very modern new housing near the last stop on the #12 metro at Front Populaire which is right on the other side of the peripherique in a suburban area of Paris undergoing lots of development with major shopping etc. on the blvd. MacDonald and Boulevard Ney. I have walked the area inside the peripherique and wouldn't stay in the area, not because it's unsafe but because it's a developing area with lots of construction and urban scatter.

Paris is trying to crack the wall of the peripherique by resettling with housing and new commercial shopping former industrial and railroad sites. This is one of those areas and not part of the Saint-Denis that gives everyone the shudders.
Geographically it's closer to Paris and Aubervilliers.

Thank you for your advice and for clearing up the arrondissement issue. The AirBnB host and all the reviews say this neighborhood and the Metro area is safe. We need two bedrooms. If we don't feel safe we'll take an Uber or taxi from the Metro. I've looked at hotels and to get two hotel rooms it is quite a bit more money. We don't mind staying outside the city limits. When my husband and I last visited Paris we had a car so we stayed in Chantilly and took a train in every day. Not a problem.

Not clear why you asked in the first place. But if you think a place in a dodgy part of town a mile and a half from the metro is convenient, go for it.

"Not clear why you asked in the first place. But if you think a place in a dodgy part of town a mile and a half from the metro is convenient, go for it."

Rue Leon Nozal is not a mile and a half from the metro. It's very close to the last stop on metro #12 Front Populaire. The mile and a half probably refers to the blue line RER, RERB. It's not a dodgy part of town. The only trouble is that it is a very new area without maybe the boulangerie etc that everyone is used to. Let's make sure our information is correct before we relay it.

Am I right that because the place is in 93xxx they don't have to have the 13 digit registration number, or is St Denis also covered by that law?

Required registration includes:

• Municipalities of more than 200,000 inhabitants,
• The communes of the inner-ring suburbs of Paris (the departments of Hauts-de-Seine, Seine-Saint-Denis, and Val-de-Marne),

Please note, these are names of departments, not cities, suburbs etc.

Per Rick's book the last two numbers of the zip code are the arrondissement.

IF the zip code starts in 75, the last two numbers of the zip code are the arrondissement.

However, the zip code you are referring to starts with “93,” which means it’s in a different city (in this case, a near suburb of Paris) and the last two numbers are irrelevant.

Thanks 75020 - so St Denis is in.

I hope that the listing for this apartment has the 13 digit number in the listing then...

The reason I "asked in the first place" was because a person I know who lives in France said that Sainte-Denis wasn't such a good place to stay so I wanted to get some other opinions, which I have, and thank you. Thank you 75020 for the idea to look at a street view on google maps. I am very much reassured that it is safe when there are very clean streets, modern buildings and even 3 children (ages about 6,5 and 4) walking without an adult on the sidewalk. I saw the Metro station which is only about 100 meters from the apartment. There doesn't seem to be any construction right next door so that doesn't bother us. The apartment looks lovely (reviews verify that) with 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 2 balconies, a kitchen and living area. I live in a city of over 300,000 people so I know that there are places that are not very safe to go to but I live here in a safe neighborhood nevertheless. Staying outside Paris proper perhaps we'll actually meet and visit with some locals who live in the building. That's always a plus! Thanks again for the positive comments!

Hi fotopainter,
It might be helpful if after your stay at the apartment, you tell us how it and the neighborhood was.

I will try to find the time to post about the BnB and the area. When I get home from a trip I always have thousands of photos to go through and edit so "no promises".

To clarify, the reason you are asked to report on how the area was is not to satisfy our curiosity but for future tourists - like you - who will benefit from your recent first-hand experience.

Please take a few minutes on your return to contribute to the accumulated wisdom on the forum.

How about this for an idea for regular Paris visitors. Leave tourist central. Take the tram that goes almost all the way around the edges of Paris and see with your own eyes the changes that are taking place. A book that can accompany you is Nicholas Le Goff's ' L'Autre Paris. 10 promenades dans les quartiers qui reinventent la capital". Even though it's in French the maps and photos are easy to comprehend. Bon voyage.

Yes, Chani -- that was the intent of my last comment. Thanks for clarifying.

so "no promises".

Is that polite for "no, I won't"?

Too bad.

These Forums work best when people pay it forward.

Everybody benefits from collective wisdom.

Please reconsider.

Hi Nigel -- What is too bad is that you assume that I was only being polite. I have made a note in my date book to update my findings on this thread. When I return after a 3 week trip I have a lot of catching up to do...with my husband, 2 dogs, daughters, grandchildren, the garden, etc. And then there's jet lag, summer RV trips to the beach and mountains, etc.. So don't look for it until about July. And before I get criticized for going during high season I'll explain that I am going at that time because my dear friend and travel buddy can't go in May and I can't go in April, September or October. I have to say that I've been disappointed at some of the contentious comments almost chastising me. Some sound like they are the only ones who've ever traveled and it MUST be done THEIR way. I've been to Europe about 12 times, usually 3 weeks per trip. This forum should be for useful information, not criticism. The most useful information has come from "75020" and I thank you again. I think you were the only person who responded who has actually been to Saint-Denis. With your useful information I went on google street maps and saw how safe the neighborhood looks. There is a bank, grocery, dental office, pharmacy and the metro nearby and no smashed car windows! We will buy groceries, including croissants, wine, cheese, meats, salads, etc. and enjoy them for breakfast, (maybe dinner), in the peace and ambience of the apartment's balconies. And THAT, is how I like to travel now.

Correction: "JHK" has been to Saint-Denis, as well. Thank you for your input.

Actually, this was a very informative thread. Every person who responded has been to St. Denis multiple times, not just 75020 and JHK. But, 75020's reporting on the redevelopment is of particular interest.

What I saw was a lovely group effort 1) to be sure of whether you were in the city or the suburb and to inform
you about the difference between a Department starting in 93 and 75, 2) to be sure if you were in a safe area by asking you to give the address 3) to ascertain if the rental would need a registration number 4) and finally the suggestion of Google Earth where you were able to see the Metro stop yourself. Of course, with something so new, people want a first-hand report. Maybe you could report while you are there. It's only a couple of sentences.

Having lived several years in a southern suburb, I wouldn't eliminate all suburbs, but some do have much worse reputations than others. Close friends of mine sold their St. Denis apartment a few years ago because they no longer felt safe. So until a street name is provided, a very general question asking if St. Denis is safe has only a general answer. Glad this looks like it will work out.

Meet and visit with locals - lol - nope

French people don’t usually invite random strangers into their homes - I had relatives who lived next door to same people for more than 10 yrs - they only nod or wave at each other - and my relative was a very jovial social man - but friends are friends and neighbors are neighbors .

You may eventually chat with your loca baker while he/ she attends you ( if you go to same bakery everyday ) , and you may enounter a social waiter , but this fantasy that French people are going to have you visiting makes me wonder if you’ve read to much into this “ living like a local “ nonsense.

Not all of us say all the places we have visited, even in a thread about a particular place.

So, just for the record, I have spent time in parts of St Denis, and, no I don't know the exact street you will be on, but yes, I have decided for myself that I have seen enough, probably far too much, of St Denis. I don't need to return to where I have seen there.

I will be very interested to read how you found apartment living there - so I'll be patient and wait for your report.

I tend to stay in a slightly remote area of the 19th arr. and I like it there.

Hi "Pat",
You said, "Meet and visit with locals - lol - nope" and "living like a local" - nonsense

I'm sorry you misinterpreted what I said. 'Visit' can mean different things. It can mean 'to chat with' or 'to have a conversation with'. Of course I'm not foolish enough to expect ANY person in another country (or where I live for that matter) to invite me into their home nor would I invite someone I just met into my home. Some of my fondest travel memories have been 'chats' I've had with locals, as well as small hotel owners (in France as well - but not in Paris), a bar owner on Santorini (we even discussed political issues). I have been using Rick's books for over 20 years and (at least in the past) he has recommended staying in smaller family owned hotels so you can 'chat' with the owners. I don't expect to "live like a local" other than to relax in a lovely, large apartment with balconies to enjoy snacks and wine after the hustle and bustle of sight-seeing in Paris.
I appreciate the informative input from people on this thread and have acknowledged and thanked them. So, I am going to turn off notifications now so I won't be tempted to respond to any more criticisms or people making assumptions.

I initiated this thread so I am following up with my findings after staying in Saint-Denis, a suburb of Paris, for 6 days. The apartment we stayed in was in a safe, clean neighborhood. We loved it! It was only about 1/2 block away from the metro stop Front Populaire and we were able to get to sites in Paris fairly quickly. Staying in Saint-Denis or other suburbs further out may not be for everyone but you can check out the neighborhood on google maps (one of the best pieces of advice on this thread) and the price was great for all that the apartment offered.

Thanks for coming back to report.