Notre Dame Tower Queue - Is It OK to Hold Places in a Queue?

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it. Why should all 3 be chained to the same slow moving line. Just be aware that you may encounter people who are not so receptive. Also - there is no queueing for the Notre Dame Tower...it's more like a slow moving "mob" of people who have NOOOOOO clue how to form an orderly line. Just because you're positioned in front of someone else doesn't mean you're gonna get to the front of the line first. I've heard several people say the only people who bother with a queue are Americans and Brits. Everyone else just goes directly to the front :-)

Hmmm, we must have been lucky 'cause the queue was slow but pretty orderly the day we were there. We also took turns killing time in it but there were only two of us. If there are four or more of you, I might suggest nabbing your place together but take turns milling about in pairs. It would be a little annoying to think there was only one person ahead of you only to have a 4-6 or more show up when almost there.

Some others took that opportunity to re-fuel: they brought crepes or sandwiches along or took turns going off to fetch something to munch on during the wait: an efficient use of time when there's a lot of ground to cover! :O)

First of all, when we waited in the queue for about an hour, it was a straight and totally orderly line. When I've walked by the queue, it's been the same.

As for your question about one person holding a place for others - NO NO NO. Absolutely not. If you want to see the towers, you wait your turn in line like everyone else.

Normally, I would make an exception for disabled people but they probably couldn't climb the stairs.

When I was there the line was long and pretty slow moving (they only let 25 in at a time, every 15 mins or so) but very orderly - no mob scene. I don't see anything wrong with someone holding the place for one or two others, lots of people were doing that when I was there. It was early in the morning so one person stayed in line while another went for breakfast croissants, or mom stood in line while dad took kids for a walk, etc.. That's usually not a problem. However, if one person held a place in line and then 20 more joined them when they got close to front, that would be a problem.

I will add that the visitors who took turns running off for munchies were all nationalities - including the French couple with the young daughter behind us - so it definitely wasn't an American thing.

I have waited in line a couple of times at Notre Dame for the towers and it has always been orderly -- long wait (30 minutes to an hour), but orderly. Also, I saw no problems with letting people join the line who had a travel companion waiting. Agree that it would be rude to wait and then have 20 people who turn up at the front of the line. For our family, we all arrived together and then my husband went to get coffee and brought it back. Then he took our children for a walk and returned 20 minutes later and no one cared and I am sure that to some people it looked like I was holding a spot for them. As with many things in life, this is about how it is done and being mindful of others. Holding a spot for 20 people is one thing and it is quite another for 2 people to wait in line and have 1 or 2 people join them 15 to 20 minutes later.

I don't think so. We got up early and headed over with the specific goal to be in that first group of twenty five. Whether two or six, it's not fair to others in line. This French woman gave these girls a piece of her mind when they did this very thing. If she had not shamed them into going to the back of the line-which they did-we would not have been in the first group. I know it may sound a little petty, but it's still not right, and certainly not polite behavior, imo.

Wow Dave - so glad you got to be in the "first" group to go up. Because, well, it's just so darned important and a totally different experience than being in the "second" group, isn't it?

Hey thanks Tim, so very kind of you to say so. I guess you're just way more European than I. Sheesh.

Thank you all for your comments!

I think the day-of we (just three of us) will play it by ear and by what our conscience dictates! As I suspected, there seem to be varying opinions, and from both American and French perspectives, so that's helpful to know.

I know another alternative is to buy a Skip the Line tour, Fat Tire Tours has one, but these don't start until 11:30AM and we really preferred to just get there first thing at 8:30 anyway. It doesn't seem that the time saved with the skip the line tour would make up for our personal inconvenience in deferring our visit. Besides, the skip the line tour includes Sainte-Chappelle, which we weren't planning on visiting anyway (but I am willing to hear arguments otherwise ;) and is just another ticket to purchase!

It's a matter of courtesy isn't it?

A short absence for food or to walk with children is not the same as a calculated "one person can hold the place for the rest of us." I don't go on vacation for the experience of standing in line and I would consider it rude for a group to suddenly appear in front of me when we're nearing the end of the wait.

I don't think the first group experience is different from the second group experience (or the twelfth from the thirteenth) but the late-appearing group is saying that I should wait a little longer so they don't have to be inconvenienced. I sometimes explore right / wrong questions with children by asking what it would be like if everyone behaved in a certain way. What would lines mean if everyone ahead of you was saving a place for an undetermined group of others who couldn't be bothered to wait?

I should say, too, that I'm enjoying your photos, Dave!

Glad to hear, makayla. My mission that morning was to "duplicate" a photo my Mother took on her post-college trip to Europe in 1950. It's this one. I have her original black and white hanging at home, which she developed and printed herself.

Cheers!

When we have done this in this and various similar lines, we all get there together (in our case it was 4 of us) and stand in line and chat with those around us and THEN having established the beachhead, one or two people go and get coffee and bring it back, or go find a restroom (there are two at Notre Dame one in back and a larger one to the front side of the plaza) etc. The idea is not that one person just stands there and everyone appears at the last minute but that everyone goes and gets in line and then there is some coming and going during the wait. Once you have gotten to know your neighbors in line this becomes an easy thing to do -- and you can also save the place of a single line waiter who needs to take a brief break.

I have no problem with someone making a quick exit from the line to get coffee or go to the bathroom. It's the just showing up at the last minute that I think is extremely rude. Why should someone who hasn't waited in line get to jump in front of someone who has? Just because he/she has a friend in line? I don't think so.

Makayla, I strongly urge you to consider Sainte-Chapelle. It is my favorite site in Paris -- stunningly beautiful and unlike any other cathedral I have seen.

janettravels, I like the way you do lines. I imagine everyone in line wants or needs to get out of line for something or other but you make it brief and you do it in relation to the (temporary) community around you.

Carroll, I agree with you about Sainte Chapelle. One of the most memorable sights in Paris imo - the upper chapel for the nobility in contrast to the lower chapel, the time-worn staircase, the incredible stained glass windows, etc. Makayla, If you like that sort of thing in general, I'd say you should include it.

janettravels44: You may hold a place in front of me anytime--great philosophy!

There is also the issue of elderly or disabled people (obviously less an issue for the tower where you have to be in good shape to climb, but true of many other lines). 20 years ago in Florence before they had timed entries to the Uffizi, my husband walked over an hour before the museum opened to get in line and the plan was I would bring my 80 year old somewhat mobility impaired mother and join him.

When we arrived he was about 400th in line -- we couldn't believe it! There were about 350 Japanese tourists in front of him and another assorted 50. No way she could stand for the two hours ahead -- so we joined him for a few minutes, met his neighbors who understood the situation, and then I found a place for my mother to sit and got her coffee. In those days we could probably have walked to the head of the line and been admitted -- Italians were very gracious when I was later alone with her in Rome and they would usher elderly people like her in at the front -- but that never occurred to us then and so we waited.

My favorite line story was also on that trip in Florence. My mother and I were in line in the restroom at the Uffizi with maybe 5 people ahead of us. A Japanese tourist ahead of us then ushered 10 friends into the line ahead of the rest of us. The polite queueing Brit behind me and I protested vigorously and we managed to get 8 of them to get in line properly.

I don't think its rude .. as long as its only one or two extra persons at most. At line for Catacomb ( I have been three times now.. not my idea believe me.. the last two times the lines were HOURS long.. and both times we arrived early) everyone in line came and went if they could.
I agree all three should initially line up.. then one or two wander off for 15-20 minutes sort of thing.. not just one person in line and then at very last minute two appear( btw .. who would WANT to be the one stuck in line alone for the others... how would you decide who had to do that!!)

As for Towers, do line up before it opens.

I have done Towers a few times too.. but never seen an unruly mob scene.. its a line on a sidewalk along a fence.. how unruly can it be?

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Personally if they are all adults they need to act like adults and stand in line. I find it very rude for the people waiting in line to have your family suddently jump in front of people because "we were too good to stand in line with the rest of you" LOL!

janettravels44, we did exactly as you had suggested.

I doubt very much it has anything to do with people feeling they are too good to stand in line with their family.
I have an adult child who has a very hard time standing in lines.. for various reasons which I do not need to explain to anyone.
Remember you do not always know what people are living with..

I'd suggest getting in line for the Towers as soon as you arrive, and plan to arrive before it opens. We did this in May 2015. The line was 3/4 the way down the block and it took about an hour. It was an orderly line, not mass confusion. The steps are narrow and steep and once you're going up, it's very difficult to stop. The view was worth the trip. We have some great photos of the gargoyles and the city. Please don't cut in line.

You mention that one of the skip the line tours also includes the Sainte Chapelle, which you are not interested in. May I suggest that you do indeed go to the Sainte Chapelle. It is a small, exquisite chapel with incredible stained glass windows-- especially considering when they were made. It wouldn't take long and is a jewel.

I am fascinated by folks who demand that all stand in line (pay their dues?). While the group should be clear that these folks are 'with them' and not just cutting the line (perhaps staying a bit at first so that those behind them know that they are part of those in front of them), what harm does it do? If a group of 5 stands in front of you for an hour or one stands there and the other 4 come back at some point, there are still, when you get to the door, 5 people in front of you.

I went to 'free day at the Uffizi' (foolish, I know, but as an Art Institute of Chicago volunteer I got a kick out of the idea of 'free day at the Uffizi'). There was a long line. I fell into conversation with a young Italian woman behind me who spoke excellent English. She was with another young woman and their mothers. At one point they offered to hold my place in line so that I could look around a bit. Although i declined for various reasons, I enjoyed the encounter. Note that various pairs of those 4 went off at times to walk around - no one objected.

If you are wanting to hold a place in line, everyone should queue up and stay a little while before wandering off. That way the people close to you in line have seen all of you and won't be surprised by new faces. It may be courteous to communicate to those close in line that some are leaving for a bit and coming back. If you are going for coffee or such and the person behind you looks like they might throw a fit when you return ask if they want you to get coffee for them. Can't hurt.

I recently attended a first come first get in event in US and was not happy that people held places in line for those arriving later. In this case there was only one "show". If people kept letting one or two in who were in front of me I might not have gotten in after I was there 1 1/2 hours before. Fortunately I did.

Drivey and Carroll...I recently learned that Sainte Chappelle has evening concerts. I think that's how we plan to visit. It fits a bit better with our schedule and what I've read says that it is a beautiful and relaxing experience. So our itinerary that day will be:
Notre Dame Tour at its open
Tower Tour at open
Walk through deportation memorial, Île Saint Louis and Berthillon (!)
Wandering through Latin Quarter, stopping at Square René-Viviani to see oldest tree in Paris (!)
Buy marché snacks at Marché Maubert
Picnic Lunch in Luxembourg gardens
3:00 I have Latin Quarter cooking class, who knows what husband and dad will do
Later afternoon tea at Grande Mosquee?
Dinner and Saint Chappele concert or order reversed.
A full June day in Latin Quarter Paris...can't wait!

By all means, meet your neighbours in line, then take turns wandering off for coffee/restrooms. Holding a place in line for others? Maybe one or two, no more than that. I also recommend Sainte Chapelle. We went there during the day, and returned at night for the concert with the sun streaming through the stained glass windows. It was a magical moment. One of our best memories of Paris.

As a psychologist, I'm fascinated by our preference for being treated fairly over getting a good deal when others get a better deal than we get. (Research shows repeatedly that people would rather wait longer than get in earlier while others wait less time or get in even earlier than they do for waiting the same amount of time.) This applies to all sorts of situations. The question being asked is a great one, really checking the definition of fairness in this culture.

One additional point (at least I don't think anyone else has stated it explicitly): Although I don't mind some coming and going, when I (solo traveler) arrive at the back of an entry line, I observe the speed of movement and the number of people in front of me to estimate roughly how long I will be waiting. If it looks like it will be too long or I will be too hungry to enjoy the experience by the time I get to the door, I may go elsewhere and try to return at a more opportune time. Massive place-holding would annoy me because it would totally throw off my oh-so-scientific calculation. I did postpone my visit to one of the major Berlin museums last summer in this situation. The lines there were very, very mixed nationality-wise but seemed quite orderly.

That said, I really appreciated the offer from a Croatian family to hold my place in the Plitvice Lakes entry line so I could run off to the sales booth and buy a trail map.

Mikayla, your idea to go to a concert at Ste. Chapelle is excellent. It is sublime. Just make absolutely sure there will still be daylight during the concert so you can see the stained glass in all its glory. (This should not be a problem in June.) You will not get to see the lower chapel (which I loved), but the upper chapel is far more beautiful. I hope you have a wonderful trip!

We have never been to the tower of Notre Dame but Sainte Chapelle is easily one of the most spectacular sights we ever saw in all of our travels. By all means, don't skip it!

My first reaction is no, no, and no. Maybe for one or two people if they need to go to the rest room. But never a group or never after everyone has stood in line for a very long time and then others show up just as they reach the front of the line. Once at Versailles an individual (turned out to be a teacher) held a spot in line for over an hour and a half for over two hundred students and several other teachers. This made for a very unhappy crowd standing in line.

If there are 3 of you in total, then having 1 person wander off for a comfort break is fine, but having 2 people wander off, and then turn up at the last minute is a no-no. And as for Sainte Chapelle - it's exquisite - but it become more of a must-see if the sun is shining: that stained glass is far far better in sunlight than when the weather is overcast. And of course, when it's dark, it's pretty pointless.