Need help filling in my Itinerary for April (continuation of previous post)

I also plan itineraries using train as much as possible but on previous trips thru France I've rented a car and driven and also flew. Great highways and easy to drive in France (except Paris). There are a few places that a 4+ hour train trip is too much so look at booking short flights. I try to be geographic. Example: Calais to Paris to Nantes- all trains this time. I loved Strasbourg but check into Colmar as well. Might work out better for you. Have fun!

I went to northern France a couple of times back in the 1970s/1980s and didn't return until 2017. Retired at that point, I was able to spend just under 90 days in the country. The more I read guidebooks and posts on this forum, the more I realized there was no way I could cover what I wanted to see in 90 days. Tipped off by my hairdresser that it is difficult to zip back and forth across France from east to west without repeatedly ending up in Paris (and probably having to change train stations), I divided the country vertically. I traveled through eastern France (as far west as Rennes in the north and Toulouse in the south) in summer 2017 and through western France (including the Dordogne and Brittany) for 6 weeks in summer 2019. And I still haven't made it back to Paris for lack of time; I try to schedule enough time at each stop to cover everything I'm interested in, not just the top 2 or 3 things. Being retired makes that possible.

Accept that you'll need another trip (more likely multiple additional trips) to France to see all you want. That will take a lot of pressure off the planning process this time around.

The focus of what you've sketched out so far--outside Paris--is the south. I'd stick with that theme rather than trying to graft on a trip to Normandy, etc.

I think you're expecting a lot of yourself by hoping to fly overnight from Canada, get yourself on a train to Avignon and then see Pont du Gard the same day. I believe you could use another day in Lyon, which has a lot of varied and scattered sights. In addition, there are ancient ruins in Vienne, not far from Lyon. Here's one link (which I cannot vouch for, not having been to Vienne myself): sights in Vienne. Be sure to include "France" in the search string if you Google for info on Vienne; Google will otherwise assume you're interested in Vienna.

I enjoyed Dijon. On a map Dijon looks like it's on the way from Lyon to Paris, but that is not really the case if you're traveling by train. Inserting Dijon between Lyon and Paris changes an under-2-hour trip (Lyon-Paris by TGV) into a 6-hour trip (2 hours Lyon-Dijon and 4 hours Dijon-Paris). I'm not saying you shouldn't do it; just be aware of how much time it will cost you.

Hey again acraven - As much as I would love to do everything I want I know its impossible. Was just giving ideas that I have to see what would most likely work seeing as im definitely going to provence. I also found that it was hard to go east and west in France. I wonder why its like this. Maybe just where the main cities are. A LOT seems to head straight to Paris ( all roads lead to paris?) So I also figured going north southish was the best way.

As for the first day? I need to stay awake as long as possible to fight off jetlag. Keeping myself busy is the only way. The second i stop at my hotel im done lol. In Germany this past trip i was up for 36 hours, and walked about 20km my first day in Frankfurt. Hard on me but not as bad as sleeping until 5pm and staying up all night would be. If I get to avignon and can be checked in by 6, i might have enough time to get to Pont du Gard. If not I plan on going after Arles, and head back to avignon that way. At the very least id like to explore avignon a bit. It will be the only day to do so, even though im only staying there as a base to get to Nimes/arles and because its easy to catch trains to everywhere else.

Ive looked at vienne, however there are too many little stops/places to go and I dont want to stretch myself to far (im sure you can see that im pretty bad at that as it is).

I ended up chosing Dijon as the last city. I know its a bit further than on the direct way to Paris, but in regards to places to stop at on the way for a day or 2 its the only logical option. I wanted to go to strasbourg, but thats 4 hours from Lyon, then 2 to Paris. The hotel prices there were also ridiculous for some reason. I know its popular but theres no reason why theyre more than Lyon or Marseille. In that context its the best way up. 2 hours from lyon, and then from dijon to Paris its roughly another 2 hours. Longer than direct, but the best use of time since I knew I wanted to stop somewhere. And as you pointed out, anywhere else in the North or even some west cities would require transiting through Paris anyways, and I do my best to avoid back tracking. The city looks cool, and it will be a nice chill stop before I get sensory overload from Paris lol. It enables me to get a decent sleep and still get to paris around noon so I think its the best option.

The only odd thing? There were only 10 hotels available. There are no events that I can find that "should" cause this. Everything was booked or unavailable. But I found a decent one for a decent price. Usually these cities end up being the places I enjoy the most so Im not worried.

Per your other post, this is your first trip to France. It is a 12 day trip. You already have some great sights that fit your interests of ancient history.

I say that less is more, so

11 - Lyon or Paris
12 - Paris

Your trip your choice, but you are giving yourself just one full day in Lyon and just 2 full days in Paris. You can dine more in Lyon and see more of Paris’ smaller museums, neighborhoods, cafes, markets, bookshops etc etc.., or you can take in more of Paris’ bigger sights, at a leisurely pace.

Given your historical interests, the Carnevalet (Paris history; museum is located in the Marais, 4th Arr) and Cluny museums (Medieval history, on the boundary of the 5th and 6th Arr) may be worth visits.

Last year, we loved a half day wandering through about four of Les Passages Couvertes in the 9th and 2nd arrondissements. Bookshops, Art, collectibles, stamps and more. Other smallish gems were Maison Balzac, the museum in the Luxembourg gardens, the museum in the Petit Palais and Rue ———————. No, not Rue Cler. Another neighborhood not so publicized by RS. That was a 4 day visit at the end of 30 days in France.

Back in 2010, our museum list included Louvre, d’Orsay, Jewish, Pompidou Center, Carnevalet, and the Orangerie. We were in Paris for a week, then.

There are also churches with organ recitals, neighborhood shops and other historic places like St. Chapelle, Les Invalides, and the Pantheon. And there’s the Rodin Museum.

Paris really deserves more than 2-1/2 days of your first 12 day trip to France.

Hey fred - there must be a mistake somewhere.... Ill be in paris (half) the 13th and fly out the 17th. Thats 3.5 days. Not a ton of time, but that extra day gives lots of time to see many things in the city. Im still working on the itineary for there but so far it should go something like:

13 Get paris/checkin/drop off bags before noon. Either just walking around and exploring, or going to the arc du triomphe, and d'orsey. It does look like a great museum. I might also go see the roman sites that day (area and the baths you mentioned. Theyre definitely something I want to see).

14 Eiffel (and maybe arc du triomphe) Catacombs later in the day maybe. This would also be a good day to see a few museums

15 Notre dame first thing. Saint Chapelle ( its right there I kind of have too) and was thinking of staying around that general area and checking things out. Luxemburg gardens would be nice to see as well.

16 is going to be an entire day, as long as I can possibly stand it, at the louvre. Its the only day/thing I have set in stone. Its a wednesday so its open 12 hours (yes I can spend that amount of time there believe it or not. But will I? Not sure).

Now that I write it out, I really need to get those days figured out. Theres lots to see and lots to do.

About Lyon: I have a need to do/see as much as I absolutely can in my trips. I travel like Ill never be there again (and for all I know I wont be) so I want to make sure I see all the sites I want to. In lyon thats mainly the roman theater/odeon/baths/insulae and the amphitheater. Everything else there would just be a bonus. And I have to experience the food there. Its also a good spot to stop on the way back up to Paris. The thing is I know you can spend a week in each place im going and barely scratch the surface of what to do there and the surrounding areas, so I do my best to spread my time out while still getting to see as much as I can. Its a fine line between rushing/seeing things and lingering too long ignoring the rest of a place. Too many people go to France and just see Paris and the palace at Versaille.

That being said, I should be in Lyon relatively early. So I can have a day to just explore and look around, and spend the next full day gawking over the roman sites and museums. Every city I plan on getting there relatively early so other than the 13, its a lot closer to 2 full days in those places. And even Paris, in theory I can still be there before 9am, as long as I can store my bags at the hotel before checking in.

Originally I wanted to see Paris, And lyon and see WWII sites. Then I started reading more roman history books/documentaries and remembered about Nimes Arles Marsaille and Nice. So I had to change things when I booked the trip. I cant take more than 2 weeks off from work at a time. So limited time takes some craftiness about itineraries. Id rather spend a shorter amount of time in places than not at all. It also gives me more things to do when/if I get back. Flights out of Nice were just out of the question because of price time and itineraries. Its actually been pretty hard planning this trip. My past trip in Germany, I managed to do 7 cities in this same amount of time, covering about 3/4 of the country so being only in a few cities in France and barely even covering 1/4 of it seems very weird lol.

I appreciate the list of things to do! Ill have to take a better look at them. I do love me a good museum!

Hi,

If you're focusing on WW2 military sites pertaining to Canadian participation, you might be interested in seeing the memorial in Dieppe, that unmitigated disaster in Allied operational planning in 1942. That happened even with the Germans being caught off guard at Dieppe.

Getting to Vimy you have to go through the city of Arras. I would suggest the TGV from Lyon to Paris, then from Gare de Lyon to Paris Nord to take the TGV to Arras, which is ca. 40 mins. If you're not too encumbered by luggage, there is a way to avoid the Metro and all that crowd or the expense of a taxi.

You can take Bus # 91 at Gare de Lyon to Paris Nord....direct shot. Bus # 91 connects with all the Paris train stations except St. Lazare.

RE: rates. There are 2 star hotel rates in smaller towns that start at 70 Euro, good , nice places in good convenient areas. I've checked out several of them, mostly in northern France. No need to pay 120 Euro when it's possible to find a place almost 50% cheaper.