Paris

Starting a couple of years ago, I did notice a lot more families with children sitting on the sidewalks seeking assistance. I believe many of them were Syrian. The disturbing part to me was how cruel life can be for some , I'm not sure what they meant about disturbing appearance of picturesque areas.
Perhaps local residents can comment.

Have I had a similar experience in Paris? No.

Saw nothing like that during
March-April 2018
August-October 2017
April 2017
September-October 2016
May-June 2016 and so on back.

But I’ll keep my eyes open.

I spent 12 days in Paris in April and May 2017 and did not encounter any of These changes to the picturesque areas,all seemed good to me.
Mike

I have been going to France since 1982. I was just in Paris last week. Yes, I have observed that there are more migrants and refugees and apparently homeless people in Paris than there were 20 years ago. But I have not seen what is described in the initial post. From what I can see, the "normally picturesque" parts of the city have not taken on a disturbing appearance. But, I am not sure that I even know what a "disturbing appearance" is for a city because I do not know what the writer finds disturbing.

As to the forwarded e-mail, I have a feeling that this is what is called "fake news". I'd be hesitant to base my travel decisions on an e-mail forwarded by a friend that he or she received from "goodness knows where" written by a "goodness knows who" couple. You would be surprised how much made up stuff is circulating in the world these days. Have you seen the artificial intelligence video in which it looks and sounds like President Obama is calling President Trump a "total and complete dipsh*t" and ends the video by saying "Stay woke [expletive deleted]?" As the old saying goes, and even more important to consider these days: believe some of what you see and none of what you hear.

I saw groups of immigrants in an area of Paris where I hadn't observed any before. Instead of being disturbing it brought tears to my eyes. As we were walking to dinner along a canal there is a long berm of earth with stairs going up the berm in 3 locations about 15' apart. At the bottom of each of the stairs there was a person with a large white board and sitting on the stairs and lining the sidewalk above were groups of immigrants. I thought I knew what they were doing and when we met our friend for dinner she confirmed that people had been meeting there for the past year and conducting French classes outdoors for the immigrants. It was such a touching situation, this school out of doors and the people packing the stairs, intent on learning a new language. So immigrants where I hadn't noticed them before, yes. Disturbing, no.

Edit: This was what I observed last week in Paris.

In the message, they included pictures of areas that the refugees/migrants had inhabited to the point that the normally picturesque areas of the city had taken a disturbing appearance.

Disturbing in what way? Are you asking how you can help these people?

Yes god forbid that you should have your holiday ruined, because you had to look at poor people.
Also a chain email, really?

To many Parisians the “disturbing appearance” of these unfortunates has led to clothing drives, feeding stations manned by “church ladies,” open air French lessons (Mona above) street marches in sympathy of the sans papiers, wide spread support for creating a better housing situation for them. Most of these refugees who number about 3,000 in a city of over 2 million are concentrated in areas of the city described by the code words ”edgy” or “gritty” seldom visited by tourists.

How easy it seems for tourists to forget that Paris besides being a magical location for some, is for others a giant growing dynamic metropolis with big city problems.

If you want to see disturbing, walk around the Seattle waterfront which has turned into one big homeless encampment. This issue is not a simple one or limited to any city or country. The challenge of meeting the basic needs of all people is one that faces us wherever we live.

I've read that France, and perhaps other countries like Germany and the UK, are concerned about losing their unique historical cultures due to immigration. Is this a genuine concern?

I know aging European countries will need an influx of young workers to support the older retirees as Europeans are not having enough babies to support the retirement system.

And please don't beat me up, but is a desire for preserving one's culture xenophobia?

Did a little digging on this. A simple google search explained that this “report” by a “Czech couple” with insensitive photo captioning has been making the rounds on the interwebs. I found this link, for example, discrediting this wildly xenophobic scare story - http://www.watcherofweasels.org/photos-paris-death-throes/

Craig - please go to Paris and don’t listen to such rubbish. I resettled refugees for years in the DFW area. Trust me, refugees are your neighbors at home too.

Isn't it curious how some "friends" just cannot resist spoiling your travel plans with news of strikes, horrible weather, migrants in picturesque areas, bad food, expensive food, scams and thievery, etc, after darned etc. I think these "friends" do not approve of anyone going off to a "foreign" land. So unpatriotic.

How come foreigners from Syria are "migrants" but foreigners from America are "visitors"?

That's obviously a bit tongue in cheek, but I'll tell you in my travels I have been offended far more often by Americans than I ever have by any other nationality.

Darren, good point. When I see a group of Americans I often go the other way. We don't often represent ourselves very well.

As metro Detroiters, we generally see many destitute panhandlers in Greektown (downtown Detroit). Homeless people may or not be "migrants" in Detroit or elsewhere. Over several weeks in Paris we did encounter some unfortunate people, generally a parent or two with their children huddled together under blankets inside doorways late at night. No, these unfortunate people do not "sully" the views for tourists. We stopped to provide water and edibles to as many as we could as we walked across Paris many times. Clearly they were needing assistance and were not "threats". I really dislike seeing poor people painted with such a broad brush.

We are but a moment's sunlight
Fading in the grass

Smile on your brother.....

I've read that France, and perhaps other countries like Germany and
the UK, are concerned about losing their unique historical cultures
due to immigration. Is this a genuine concern?

What is a "unique historical culture"? Most cultures are dynamic, changing over time, and shaped by coming into contact with new people (i.e. immigrants)....the only static cultures you see in the world are those places that are highly geographically isolated or where there is little contact with the outside world (very uncommon). Even those places, like the tribes of the Amazon, are still touched by globalization and encroachment from other people. The EU has borderless entry and many European countries had colonies in the distant past, so there is no "static" culture that hasn't already changed a lot over time.

As for the OP's comment, how can a small number of migrants relative to a large population possibly cause a "disturbing appearance"? All large cities have poverty and homeless people, including many here in the US.

I understand, Agnes. I wonder if there are unique qualities to, say, Irish culture that has endured in some form for centuries, and if that is worth preserving. Can immigration adapt and preserve that culture?

Can immigration adapt and preserve that culture?

Of course, adaptation happens on both sides. Some countries (I'm thinking Scandinavia and Canada here) spend a lot of effort and resources to integrate new immigrants and teach them about their country in an effort to smoothly assimilate them. Culture is preserved over generations by the upkeep of certain traditions and norms. Even poor indigenous people in Mexico and Central America assimilated the religion of the Conquistadores from Spain who conquered them.

You have to keep in mind that immigrant numbers are still small relative to the entire population, so by and large the majority of people keep their culture alive all the time just by practicing their normal customs. Sicily and Malta, for example, have had so many different cultures passing through (Greeks, Romans, Sarecens, Normans, etc) that you will see the influence of all of them when you visit.

Isn't it curious how some "friends" just cannot resist spoiling your travel plans with news of strikes, horrible weather, migrants in picturesque areas, bad food, expensive food, scams and thievery, etc,

Are you talking about my home city now (with the exception of strikes, which don't really exist in the US anymore)?

Craig, please don't let other people spoil your trip! Sending you a scary chain email is a way for other people to vacation shame you. Yes, you will encounter real people and real situations because you are visiting a real place, not a theme park, but it is still Paris.

Before visiting Scandinavia in 2016 I received a lot of negative comments from co-workers about the supposed dangers of visiting Sweden during the refugee crisis. Nothing happened and I had an amazing trip. Before visiting Paris last year people warned me of various things like rats, smog, refugees, etc. Nothing happened and Paris was as picturesque as ever.

Paris is probably the most densely populated big city in Europe. It's also a living and working constantly chainging city that exists for far more reasons than to be a theme park for tourists, no matter what the tourism board web sites and brochures would seem to imply. You'll be in close contact with a whole rainbow full of different types of people while you're there, and if that's a problem for a given person, then the city is not for them.

I would REALLY love someone to identify which areas of Britiah culture have been destroyed my immigration because I can't think of any!

Britain has gone from barely edible fried food slop when I first went 38 years ago, to my favourite place in the world to eat. One reason: immigration.

The post which contained the link to the internet posting was the mail I received. I didn’t want to post it since it was a little politically insensitive.

When I visited Munich two years ago (previous visit was 5 years earlier), there was a definite change in appearance because of the influx of the Syrian refugees that Germany had opened their doors to accept. The congregations were mostly contained in specific areas of the city and yes, it was difficult to traverse these areas while thinking of the plight of some of the people to be alive in Munich.

The post by the Czech couple make it look like Paris has acquired the same problem. I’m glad France opened their doors to the Syrian refugees and it sounds like they are trying to help get these people settled into a normal lifestyle.

When the hurricanes that devastated New Orleans and Houston forced a lot of people to relocate to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area (some temporary, some permanent), there was a period where people had similar living conditions in the designated areas set aside for them. As the people were able to get on with their lives, there is now little evidence that people had been living like that.

I was surprised to see that Paris still had people living like that (guess there are people relocating to Europe yet).

Thanks to people who shared their recent experiences and opinions. Since our trip won’t be until late summer, I can expect that Parisians will continue to take care of this change in their city.

Craig,
When I was in Paris from 4/19 - 4/23, I received these emails from 2 friends. I didn't see anything like the pictures in their email. I put the email in the category of scare tactics, to convince you that migrants or refugees are dirty and invasive. I live in Atlanta and there is a fairly large homeless population here. Unless you walk around the downtown area, you won't see them. I'm sure that is the same in Paris whether comprised of migrants or refugees. I just did not see them. I spent my time in various parts of Paris, too.

Kaeleku, Very well said.

"The post which contained the link to the internet posting was the mail I received. I didn’t want to post it since it was a little politically insensitive."
I hate to imagine what a little politically insensitive means in this context.

And, yes very well said Kaeleku.

I've looked at the videos. Time for a little map drill. From the overhead metro photographed one can see that the area being covered repeatedly from different angles is that between metro Barbes Rochechouart to metro Stalingrad along line #2 and up rue de Flandres and Boulevard Barbes for a bit. (Oddly enough these areas have seen recently, the greatest percentage increases in real estate prices.) For some perspective, compare that area to the size of the Paris map you have spread out in front of you. I'm amazed that left out was the fascinating Indian sub-continent focused area to the east of the Gare du Nord. The food is really good over there. Because total veiling as pictured is not allowed in France, the wearers were probably tourists. The problem with creating enough mosque space is too difficult to go into here.

The recently redone Art Deco masterpiece of the Louxor theater, the Brasserie Barbes and so many other renewed buildings didn't make the video cuts. Wonder why? Wonder why one sees so many Muslim graves in French WWI and WWII cemeteries, along with crosses and stars of David?

To answer the question, without opining on whether it's okay to ask, I noticed a heavy immigrant flavor around St. Denis. I didn't feel unsafe or uncomfortable but it was noticeable.

I had an apartment last year close to Jussieu metro, which isn't far from a Mosque and a Muslim cultural center. I didn't pay much attention but my French friend commented on how the Muslim population had really grown in that area. Yes, I suppose there were a noticeable amount of women with heads covered and Middle-Eastern looking men. I didn't see anything that I felt unsafe about.

Which St. Denis? The suburb St. Denis, rue St. Denis, Boulevard St. Denis? The St. Denis suburb has been heavily North African for decades. Rue St. Denis has been a neighborhood where ladies with no other prospect have earned a living at night since the Middle Ages. The Mosque has been in the Jussieu neighborhood since before any of us were born--always a great place for mint tea. Hope more of us get over there and enjoy the pastries and tea.

So what's the photo, 75020? The lack of prayer space on Fridays with men having to pray in the streets? As you're aware, but others probably aren't, that's been discussed for years and the country is helping getting mosques built.

Craig: you've come to the right place. I'm so glad you asked us! I hope you have a better idea of how some propaganda is produced, some done by paid professionals to sway people, some done by a teen in a third-world country just trying to make some money for new sneakers. By the way, one-hundred years ago, this would have been Irish, Italians, Jews, Filipinos featured as the culprits.

And to end, my thanks to Mr. Twain and Joseph Rosendo who ends each show with part of this:
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

Paris is a beautiful and safe city You will enjoy.

Hi, I've made some edits to prevent this from going down a political direction more than it already has. I'll also be closing this thread as I believe the question/concern has been answered and the subject matter seems to be attracting off-topic, political, argumentative, or negative replies. I'm also trying not to be too heavy handed in moderating this discussion so thanks for understanding why some politically tinged posts remain as it is difficult to discuss this topic without some of that.