We recently hosted a French Exchange student and plan to meet his parents for dinner when we are in France in a few months. I need a little cultural and French etiquette advice here. It will just be the 4 parents. We are the ones that asked them if they would be available to meet us for dinner. They said they would love to "welcome us and join us for dinner." I would like to ask them to suggest, recommend, and make reservations for dinner because they have "home court advantage." I want to avoid the awkwardness so I'd like to have the expectations about who is paying, etc. figured out before we meet. I understand that the French usually do not split or argue about the bill as we do in the US. We are certainly prepared to pay for the entire bill since we were the ones inviting them to join us for dinner, but I can also see that they might want to treat us as we hosted their son for a few weeks without any stipend or reciprocation. Does anyone have any cultural advice to offer? At this point we have only agreed to meet for dinner...so we've haven't gotten to the point where we have talked about what kind of food, where, how fancy of a restaurant we'd like to dine at, who should make reservations, etc. We would be eating in Lyon :) so I just don't want to make anyone feel weird. Also, if a French person wrote "we would love to welcome and join you for dinner" am I correct to assume they are not offering for us to stay at their house? I don't want anything to be lost in translation.
You are correct to assume you haven't been asked to stay with them. As far as language goes, if everything transpires in English, you have the home court advantage. They may still come back with an invitation to stay with them, or for a before dinner drink, or even dinner at their house/apartment since your trip is a few months away. We once had friends in Beaune invite us for a before meal drink but once there found out that they had invited us for a meal. And we are French and French speaking with no language or culture barrier--so just see what happens.
Second, you probably won't know who pays until the moment the bill comes. Be prepared to reach for it. They may insist on paying--people don't argue, but each party may insist on paying. It's not too different from the States, except that no one knows in advance for sure unless it's a clear invitation for a reason or occasion. In this case you did invite them but it's not clear. People do split bills when they know each other well but that's not the case here. In your case it would be too business-like and put a price on the budding relationship. Here's the typical scenario: each insisting, thanking the winner of the bill tug-of-war, and telling them how nice they are to do this and the one who doesn't pay saying that (s)he'll pay next time.
You are correct that discussing money, how much something costs--anything at all, what a good deal you got on something, or even asking someone directly what they do for a living--because it reveals a pay status-- is impolite. This is one very big difference between the two cultures.
On the other hand, you need to be more specific about type of restaurant. The parents are probably baffled about what to suggest without knowing if you want a simple bistro or a three-star. I'd ask for a few restaurants from which to choose -- but for a simple, little place with typically French food. If you ask for a typically Lyonais restaurant, you should know that Lyon is famous throughout France for organ meat dishes, but also some wonderful dry sausages and pistachio sausage. Some dishes from Lyon are what the French call "special" or we'd say wryly "different". Therefore, you may want to check the menus on the internet first. To sum up, you need to help the parents too, sit back and relax about the check but be sure it's a place you can afford in case you end up paying, and a place where you will like the food.
We were once invited to a French home for cocktails before dinner (we thought) but when we got there, they had invited a dozen other people and it was a buffet dinner. It was lovely. So yeah. Surprises happen.
Thank you everyone for your helpful advice and sharing your story about what you have experienced when dining with French friends. It's all great! I have a few French friends and they have always surprised me with being very gracious. I believe these folks to be the same. The student was pretty laid back, and I think the parents are as well. I just thought I'd toss this out there to see if I was way off base and I think I'm good. I'm sure we will have a great time. To be prepared, I will check out some restaurants and if they ask me what kind of food we'd like to eat, etc., I'll have some places in mind. I am not a big fan of organ meats (ate lots of stuff like that as a kid) so instead of coming off looking picky or "not adventurous", I could come at it from the angle of "We read about this restaurant...we'd love to try it...what do you think?" Again, thanks all!
It is tricky because you initiated the invitation, but as you have hosted their son it is really you who is owed the 'favour'. However you can't make assumptions and a prior discussion may be awkward to initiate.
My gut feeling is they will want to reciprocate your kindness by paying for the dinner, especially too as it's on their home soil. If you want to make a contribution, then offer to pay for the drinks/wine.
If you are inclined for an equal split, then pick up the bill when it arrives, and quickly announce the split. For example, "Shall we just split it? That's 120 euros for each of us."
If you want to take care of the entire bill then by all means do it discreetly after the dessert/coffee order has been taken. If they insist later on a contribution then let them take care of the wine, which they will probably have chosen for you.
I have only spoken with them over email and we both use English. It seems like they write straight up and don't use any translation help. What are your thoughts related to that? Thanks...
I generally believe whoever invites the other to dinner is the host and pays the check.
If you invited them to dinner, you should pay.
To eliminate the awkwardness. I'd email them saying, "we're really looking forward to taking you to dinner" and ask them if they could make a reservation at a place they like. Hopefully the additional language will make it clear and asking them to make a reservation at a place they like will result in a good meal. Unless they're wealthy, "a place they like" should also be reasonably priced. They'll know how far ahead they need to book for the particular restaurant.
I agree with Brad: the person doing the inviting should pay the tab. Furthermore, I suggest that the credit card be given to the restaurant early on, even before meeting the guests, so that the bill is never presented to the diners so there is no drama about who pays what.
On the other hand, since you hosted their child, the parents should be allowed to show their appreciation for hosting their child. Some people are very uncomfortable feeling "too beholden" to others. At least I would. I would still plan on paying but would allow them the opportunity if they insist.
Totally agree with Brad and Geor. The person who invited should pay. Asking how they want to split it, after inviting them, is not done imo. I like Geor's suggestion to give your card early on and avoid all the awkwardness. All my French friends would insist, without question, on paying. But if I invite people, I feel strongly that I should pay.
Thank you Brad...I like your suggestion of your wording and asking them make the reservation on our behalf. Certainly clear and simple language. I totally agree that whoever does the inviting usually pays, but I just wasn't sure if that holds true in France. From all the responses here there doesn't seem to be one set rule..sometimes they split (but seems very rare), sometimes they take turns, sometimes they would assume the "inviter" will pay, and sometimes you think you are just having drinks and voila! you are having an entire meal! I also gather that the couple we're dining with could actually do some of the same suggestions that were offered here, meaning we could get there and the bill issue never comes up because they took care of it before we got there. I feel better prepared now knowing all that could possibly happen. I should add that when their child was here, I didn't feel comfortable having him pay for things that they probably were expecting to pay for. I didn't feel right about asking for a few bucks here or there for ice cream or sodas, etc. When I paid, the student politely said thank you and there was no issue. Splitting the bill is not an option and I wouldn't let that even happen. If they suggest to split the bill, I would say "No" and say that we want to take care of all of it. If they offer to pay for the whole bill, we will not deny them that opportunity because as Just Travel says, they might feel "beholden". I wouldn't be comfortable splitting the bill as I couldn't even handle splitting the bill at the ice cream counter. :)
Anne-Frances,
How lovely of you to reach out to the student's parents. I'm sure they are looking forward to meeting you. I think you have been given excellent advice, so I won't add to that. And, I think your approach (especially with the last few posts) will be excellent.
But, so often we see posts on this Forum of how to best get to meet/mingle/whatever with locals. What a truly wonderful evening you will have with locals! That's almost priceless!
And, how very kind you were to host their son. You'll have plenty of things to catch up on.
My sister and her husband hosted an exchange student from Sweden years ago, and they are still very much in touch with the family, even traveling for the (years later) wedding of the student. Life-long friendships can develop, even if slowly.
I'll add one thing, in France slow service is good service. It's the antithesis of an American restaurant, the waiter won't force the next course on you before you've finished your last one and isn't likely to interrupt to ask, "How is everything?". A good server brings the bill at the end of an expected long, relaxed meal and conversation. If the bill doesn't show up earlier, don't interpret that to mean it's been taken care of - the waiter just hasn't been rude, by French standards, by rushing you with the tab.
That's mainly why I'd try to make it clear you're hosting them ahead of time so you don't spend dinner thinking about it.
Brad, that's a great point you made for anyone dining in France. Thanks!
Two things that I will add and it really does not matter whether it is this specific situation or another: if you suggest a restaurant as one that you want to try, you should be ready for a person to interpret that to mean that you are paying. Because, we never really know another's financial situation, one must be very mindful about the prices of any restaurant suggested.