We will be in Lyon for 4 days or so. Then we have an additional four days and I'm trying to decide where to go. Been thinking of Milan, we don't have a car so would have to take the train or fly but neither is as cheap as I would like. And while I'm sure I will enjoy Milan, it just doesn't seem as robust as Lyon. So looking for other ideas, such as staying in Lyon as a base and taking day trips other places, or going somewhere else in France. I've been to Nice, not Marseilles, but not sure if that is a good tourist city either, and Geneva isn't far but I'm more interested in art and museums and cities and less in places to just relax. Once again, I'm limited because I don't want to get a car. Any ideas are appreciated.
Posted by
Green Bay
22223 posts
Avignon for the Papal Palace.
Arles for Van Gogh and other art museums.
Nimes for the Roman Arena.
Posted by
Long Beach, Ca, usa
1994 posts
I would add Bordeaux....wineries, charming city center, not far from the ocean, nice art museum and cathedral, great food, good tram system for getting around town, Bassins Des Lumieres, Cite du Vin, strolls along the river, day trip to St. Emilion. Check it out! Also, fast TGV to Paris (less than 3 hours) if you need to return there for flight home.
Posted by
OP
Atlanta
105 posts
Thanks Sam, so would it be good to center in any of the three cities, and travel to the others, or center in Montpellier and travel to the rest? And if so, which of those cities would be the best to center in? Appreciate the advice!
Posted by
San Diego, California, USA
1436 posts
Hello IggyStooge, great name BTW, the issue is it sounds like you want a serious city to explore and this region is composed of much smaller towns. The typical Provence visit is nice if you embrace the small town exploration experience - but there aren't city experiences that will blow you away. As other have said Avignon, Arles and Nimes will certainly fill a few days if you have any interest in old city centers, markets and the occasional museum. Catching a local market day in a Provencal town is a peak experience, but if that doesn't interest you then Provence is probably not for you.
If you want a bigger city experience here are my thoughts on the cities - but only some of these are first hand experiences.
- Milan is a big, busy city but unless you are interested in fashion I think it is underwhelming for an Italian city in terms of size versus attractions versus Florence, Rome etc.
- Geneva is easy to reach but I know people who have lived there and they describe it as "pleasant" and it is on a lake but say that tourists are often unimpressed. Switzerland can also be very expensive.
- Marseilles is a large port city being directly across from Africa and is considered "not very French" the same way Livorno is considered "not very Italian". Some people love Marseilles and complain that Rick doesn't cover it and he really should etc. If you're willing to dive in I think there's a lot there. The French also feel that it is less safe than most French cities and there is probably some mix of truth and prejudice in that view and many neighborhoods - often poorer ones - are very ethnic. I know someone from Marseilles and he accused the French of just be racist but also acknowledged there were neighborhoods to avoid. This was also several years ago and I think the city has generally been on the up in the last decade.
If you want an off-piste suggestion I'll throw out Turin/Turino. Turin is a big, serious city with important buildings, museums and a deep history. Like some other cities people who love it can't figure out why no one goes there, but it might be more what you're looking for than Milan.
My $.02, hope that helps,
=Tod
Posted by
Green Bay
22223 posts
I'd say stay in Avignon, as there are frequent regional trains to/from Nimes and Arles. 35 minutes to Nimes and 17 minutes to Arles.
Posted by
OP
Atlanta
105 posts
How kind of all of you to take the time to write. All great advice. Tod, Marseilles sounds a bit like Naples, and I liked that, and you are correct, with the little time I have I enjoy cities more. Btw, have been to Torino and loved it. Judy, like your suggestion for Bordeaux but it seems a little far unless I'm looking at the wrong Bordeaux, which is entirely possible. And Sam, thanks for your Avignon advice. Appreciate you all!
Posted by
Long Beach, Ca, usa
1994 posts
IggyStrooge,
I concur, Bordeaux is a bit too far...7-9 hours drive. Best of luck on choosing your "place."
Re Marseille, hubby spent a few years there as a boy in the very early fifties, so he has fond memories. We have been back often and he still has family there. It is definitely a "port" city, with all that implies, but nonetheless it has a colorful charm about it. It's history goes back to when it was a large Greek outpost called Massilia, and a crossroads of trade between the bronze age peoples to the north and the Mediterranean civilizations.
Things to see: Notre Dame de la Garde basilica, with bullet holes still in the walls from the war, and model ships hanging within for the fishermen and sailors who didn't return home; the Museum of European and Mediterranean Civilization with some terrific Greek and Roman artifacts; Chateau d'If, where the fictional Count of Monte Cristo was "imprisoned"; nearby calanques; Palais Longchamps, with museums (fine arts and natural history); the Vieux Port, especially early morning when the fishermen come in with their catch; the old neighborhood of Le Panier or the cozy Vallon Des Auffes; Les Beaux or Ste. Baume as day trips (best to have your own car, IMO). These are the highlights, in case you choose Marseille. And to eat...bouilabaisse, pissaladiere, any fish dish, fougasse bread, and excellent fresh produce. Pastis for an aperitif, excellent rose wines from nearby Bandol, and reds of the Bouche de Rhone.
Posted by
SoCal
1680 posts
I wouldn't personally ever stay in Avignon again. Access to the old town is difficult, there's not really much in the way of art or cultural interest there aside from the Palais des Papes, and restaurants are IME dominated by tourist traps. Obviously not my favorite place in France.
Lyon is much better as a transportation hub, and it's a city in which one easily can fill a week. And the restaurants obviously are unsurpassed for quality.
Posted by
San Diego, California, USA
1436 posts
I'm glad I got the correct read on your interests right and I'm glad to hear that you liked Torino. It always feels like a responsibility to give people advice on where they should go and I would hate for someone to go somewhere on my advice and have a bad time.
All that together, I think if you enjoyed Naples then I think Marseilles is probably your best bet. Like Naples it's a recommendation that comes with a certain number of caveats but if you do your research I bet you will find it interesting and hopefully exciting.
Rick won't help much with that research: https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/france/marseille but it's a place to start.
Lonely Planet: https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/things-to-know-before-traveling-to-marseille
Also Anthony Bourdain did a segment there: https://explorepartsunknown.com/marseille/episode-intel-from-marseille/
Whatever you end up doing, have a great trip! Even if you are the world's forgotten boy. ;)
=Tod