Long Term Stay Visa in France - Question about Bank Statement

I'm not sure anyone here is going to be able to help you, at least not with an official answer. Why don't you just call the french consulate in DC and ask them?

I agree that you should speak to someone in the Visa Section of the
French Embassy. Even if someone here offers advice or info, it would be safer to get it from the horse's mouth (or la bouche du cheval, so to speak). Give the Embassy a call. The tel. number is on the website.

If I faced with these questions, this would be my understanding. They want to know if you have the assets to support yourself during that time. They are not setting a min but looking for an over all assessment. From you bank statements they want to see cash flow. Maybe you are getting a regular monthly payment from your trust fund and they would see that. Second, other assets - stock accounts, pension funds, etc. In other words, total assets available. If the monthly flow is interrupted, do you have assets to fall back on? Someone else posted earlier that you might need as much as $50,000 in reserve for an Italian visa.

I assume the sponsor would have to be someone, something that has the assets to support you. Probably an organization like a university, etc., that on the face of it, can support you. Don't think a friend would qualify unless they were willing submit similar documentation. Who knows?

I think the problem with the internet income/job is how dependable is it? If you are self-employed, it could be a big hurdled. As others are saying you need to asking these questions of the French. I have read elsewhere that it is possible that they might view your internet income as actually working in France. I don't think the key is working or not working for a French company. I might be cautions about entering that into the discussion as it could raise red flags.

Good luck. Keep us posted as this a good question.

The sponsor is someone who agrees to support you should you have insufficient funds. The bank statement tells them what type of income you have going through your checking account.

Don't assume that you aren't subject to French income tax. I get paid from the US, but pay Austrian income taxes. You might want to check with a tax advisor.

Hello all and thanks for your replies.
I agree - I should call the Consulate in DC. Thanks for trying to help all the same.

I had seen before an estimate to get a visa for Italy and it was quite high, and I was hoping France would not have such a high minimum requirement. I understand the government not wanting people to be vagrants, or be tempted to work "under the table" without paying taxes because of lack of funds, but a person can live for FAR less than, say, $50,000, so to have such a high minimum doesn't make sense to me...

And a huge WOW to what has been mentioned about paying taxes! I assumed that working for an American-based company via Internet wouldn't merit paying French taxes because it would be like getting taxed twice (once by IRS and then again by the French government). This is certainly something I need to look further into. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

"Due to high call volume, the staff at the Embassy cannot answer your call..." :)

But at least they provide an email to send inquires.

Monique,
Income Tax is by definition a tax on your income. It is charged on all your income no matter where it comes from. It is paid where you live.
A Payroll Tax is a tax charged to an employer and levied where the employment takes place.

If you become a French resident, you pay income tax in France. You are applying for a visa to become a legal French resident, you are (by implication) signing up for all the legal responsibilities that implies, including French Income Tax.

Most pairs of countries have "double taxation" treaties to decide who gets the taxes, and avoid double taxation, but it can get very complicated. Normally if you stay in a country for more than half the tax year you are liable for Income Tax in that country.

The USA is unique, in that it demands filling in tax forms for all citizens, even if they no longer live in the country. Even if you left as a child: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/boris-Johnson-renounces-us-citizenship-tax-bill-mayor-london/385554/
The US government has placed requirements on banks to disclose assets of US citizens, that cause so much problems that many Swiss banks are faced with a choice to close their US branches (so they are outside the reach of US courts), or refuse accounts from US citizens, even those living in Switzerland.

Thanks Chris! That was very informative and does make sense - not happy about it, but it makes sense. So basically, if I am working, be it for a US-based or France-based company, I should be paying taxes, which means I need a working visa. That adds a whole other element into the picture. I thought I had the work-visa issue solved by getting a telecommute job, but I guess not...

I have friends (American) who lived in Aix en Provence in southern France for quite some time. They didn't have to pay taxes on their income to the US since their income was under the threshold for that. For the first years they lived there (I want to say 7??) they paid a lesser amount in taxes to the French government than French citizens. He was working for an American non-profit in France. After the 7 years or so were up their tax rate to the French government was set to increase dramatically. They were going to be required to fully pay into the French social system which, for them, made it impossible to stay in France. They ended up moving to Morocco to avoid the taxes. They have since moved back to the US.
You'll need to research this...depending on how much you make and which state you are moving from (I'm assuming you're American?), you may own taxes to both the US govt. and the state you are coming from. There are a handful of states where it is very difficult to extricate yourself from taxes unless you can prove you are cutting all ties and permanently leaving.
Have you heard of a magazine called "Living in France"? It's a great look into all of the nitty-gritty aspects of living in France and it's full of things that would never even occur to me to consider! It's geared towards a British audience - being part of the EU it's easier for them to live and work there - but it'll still give you a good sense of what to expect. They sell it at Barnes and Noble...I pick it up just for fun every few months. I think you'll find it helpful!

You lost me at "60 euro per day of planned stay." Does that number come from some calculations you have made? Beyond all the legalities and technicalities, you may want to explore the practicalities of that estimate. Depending on where you live and for how long, you might have to pay for utilities which will add to your costs on longer rentals or pay more for shorter rentals that include the utilities.

Then there is transportation. And of course food, household expendables, etc. At today's exchange rate, that's $67 per day or about $2075 per month. Counting everything, and I mean everything, can you live that cheaply here? If not, I think you will really have a hard time doing it in France.

Of course, that's only today's exchange rate. The euro could be close to parity with the dollar for your whole time there. Or not.

I think it's a great and exciting idea. I also think it's hard to do for a reason. If you are able to sort this out and do what you want to do, you will have accomplished something well worth the doing.

There are people who get extended vacation or retirement type visas and then work on line without disclosing that and thus avoid tax and work visa issues. But if you want to count income from work while living in France, to get your visa then I doubt you can do that without entering into the tax system, and a work visa. When we got an extended visa years ago through Italy, we certainly had to provide a lot more than 60 Euro a day in resources. We didn't share all our finances, but enough so it was clear we had the resources not to become a burden on the Italian state. When we looked at French requirements they also required VERY expensive private health insurance to the equivalent of French coverage. That is what caused us to not move to France, but to remain frequent visitors. To get a long term visa you will need health insurance; at our age is was prohibitively expensive especially since we would have to continue paying for Medicare in the states unless we wanted that cost to skyrocket on our return.

Thanks again everyone! Definitely some things to think about.

The 60 euro/day reference was merely an example, 60 being a random number I typed. I have seen for visas for other countries that the minimum amount required to apply for a non-working visa is averaged out by a certain amount of euros per day of stay. That could be 100 euro/day, 90000000000 euro/day or whatever. I just indicated 60 as an example.

While not claiming to be an expert on cheap living, I have spent the max amount of days allowed in certain Eurppean cities (never Paris though, which is a whole other ballgame) and always lived life as a "local" (cheap, but well) per say, not a tourist, including apartment rentals, paying utilities, bus passes, grocery shopping, second-hand shopping, etc... This is probably a completely different question, but it was mentioned that I could end up doing things that long-term residents avoid. I would like to understand more fully what that means.

As far as medical insurance and housing, those are issues that I fully understand. The website is actually very clear in what is required, and so I am already on the process of tackling those other issues. The only thing that was foggy to me is this whole financial thing.

But you all have provided some very good and insightful comments. Regardless of what I "thought" I understood based on the requirements on the site, there are clearly things I didn't think of!

I recently applied for and received a long-stay visa for visitors and moved to Paris 6 months ago from the U.S.

For medical insurance I just got a 364-day travel plan from Allianz. It cost me $79. It has $50,000 in emergency medical coverage as well as the repatriation coverage required by the French Consulate. You will need to ask Allianz for a Consulate letter, which I received in less than 24 hours.

I was at an event recently and an immigration attorney there said that the minimum amount of money needed to qualify for a long-stay visa was approximately 18,000€.

If you have specific questions for the consulate I would suggest e-mailing them. I did that with the Chicago Consulate and received a quick reply - and had my answer in writing.

Wow I paid a lot more than that for 3 mos of insurance for my husband a few years ago -- it was closer to $400 and just travel medical insurance. Our annual repatriation/emergency evacuation insurance for the two of us -- without actual medical coverage -- is close to $400. Our US medicare gap insurance covers us for emergency medical care for 60 days but not emergency evacuation -- if we stay beyond that we have to get travel coverage which again is a lot more expensive for us than $79.

Wow I paid a lot more than that for 3 mos of insurance for my husband a few years ago -- it was closer to $400 and just travel medical insurance. Our annual repatriation/emergency evacuation insurance for the two of us -- without actual medical coverage -- is close to $400. Our US medicare gap insurance covers us for emergency medical care for 60 days but not emergency evacuation -- if we stay beyond that we have to get travel coverage which again is a lot more expensive for us than $79.

I emailed the Embassy in DC (which is the one my state is assigned to) the date I posted this question, and so far no reply. I also tried to contact the IRS to confirm this issue regarding paying taxes in France while working online for a US-based company. Not that I don't believe anyone, but for my personal situation, which would be only a 6-month stay, I just can't fathom needing to pay into the French system. There is an agreement with USA and quite a few countries (France included) that prevent double taxation in some cases, but based on what I read, it only refers to social security taxes.

The insurance I found was also a little less $400 for a 6-month period (GeoTravel I think it is called). $0 deductible and the cost is actually less if you already have insurance, and of course less if you choose a higher deductible.

You really are facing two questions here:
(1) What visa do I need to be legal that would allow me to work for my American employer while living for six months in France?
(2) What tax obligation, if any, would I have to France for income earned while living in France?

@Ben you hit the nail on the head! Thanks so much for your reply! Everytime I hear an answer, I am reminded of yet another factor that I did not consider, in this case the whole registering within 3 months requirement with a long-stay visa because yes, I can imagine that further questions would be asked, and I didn't think of what would be needed at that. Thanks for your experience! I will certainly check out the suggested site also.

So basically here, here are my options:
1) Have enough funds (probably in the tens of thousands) to apply for a long-term visa, showing I can provide for myself and not be at risk for working "under the table".
2) Find a sponsor who will assume responsibility for my financial needs (who this person must be is still unknown - was asked in my email to the Embassy).
3) If neither A or B fix the issue, then I will need to work to provide for myself while there, unable to live off savings. I plan to work online. This MAY mean paying taxes to the French government (again, I need to confirm), which would probably necessitate me needing some type of visa that allows me to work/helps the government keep track of my earnings for tax purposes.
4) Marry a millionaire and have "his people" take care of all this nitty-gritty for us.

This may not be quite as complicated as it seems if you look at it from the point of view of someone whose residence is still the United States, is in France temporarily, and whose pay check is coming from the US. This is what university faculty do all the time on sabbatical. The issue of French taxation doesn't come up in these cases, even for French citizens who live in the States but return to France for six to twelve months of research--as long as the check is coming from the States, be it the university or another funding source.

Finally, when I last worked in France for French companies, admittedly decades ago, the US exemption for taxes I had already paid to France was so generous, and my earning so low, that I never had double taxation. In those days, you would have had to have been an executive with a hefty overseas compensation to pay double taxation.

The www.expatforum.com as suggested by Ben is a great resource. I received an answer in less than a couple hours.

Monique what did you find out?
I'm curious to know and I'm sure others are as well!

Here are some snippets:

"...they are looking for evidence that you have sufficient financial resources to maintain yourself while living in France. Period. They do want to know where your money is coming from - a pension, a paycheck, "living off the interest" or whatever. Which is why the ask for the 3 months of bank statements - to show them your source of income coming into your account on a regular basis, and to get a rough feel for your outflows (i.e. are you a big spender or not?).
...There is no fixed minimum balance or income figure you need, but based on your last three months of bank balances, you need to have "enough" to keep you honest ... If you have a "sponsor" that normally means that Mom and Dad are willing (and able) to send you money on a regular basis ...
...On the tax side of things, again it kind of depends on your reason for wanting to live in France. For 6 to 8 months, assuming you have a reason that makes sense to the consulate, there is probably no need to report and pay French taxes (especially if you have indicated to the consulate that your ongoing salary from back home is how you'll support your stay).
Basically, it comes down to the type of visa you want and your stated reason for going to live in France."