Help with France Itinerary

What fun! I am a Francophile so just reading your post makes my mouth water! We missed a 16 day trip to the Dordogne in April-Covid- and are planning it again for May 2021. Hubby and I usually fly into Paris, spend a night or so there and train out to the area we are exploring to a town where we pick up our rental car and explore.....turn it back in, train back to Paris and spend 5 nights there before we fly home. It’s always worked well for us. We did a Giverney, Rouen, Honfleur, Bayeux, Normandy WW2 tour, MSM, Amboise (Loire Valley chateaus) tour and loved it. MSM is so worth staying on the island.......bucket list......get your reservation in NOW! We liked Hotel Churchill in Bayeux and were charmed by the cathedral and WW2 cemeteries in Bayeux. Have not done the Dordogne yet but plan to stay in Beynac and Sarlat for about 6 nights next May. We have always loved having a car.....its made the spontaneous stops so worth it. Another trip for us was Paris, train to Avignon, rent a car and do Provence.......Gordes ( a favorite!!!), St. Remy, all of the charming Provençal town markets and then training back to Paris. Could I say it was my favorite trip????.....I love them all.....you MUST go to the St. Remy market (outstanding) and take a side trip to L’Isle sur la Sorgue for their Sunday antiques market.......SO FUN. We also drove one rainy afternoon through Menerbes, Loumarin and Rousillon......what a day.....each town was just as delightful as the next. There is also an incredible old estate in St. Remy that you need to investigate for a lovely garden lunch or even to stay in......Le Chateau des Alpilles....we happened upon it on a drive one day and fell in love with its beautiful grounds and setting....kinda wished we had stayed there while in St. Remy. There are some neat sights online where you can read about cooking classes......one I follow is THE PROVENCE POST. I think you will find it helpful. I am sure people think I get a cut every time I mention this but there is a resource my Paris friends of 35 years put me on to......its a website called THE MOST BEAUTIFUL VILLAGES OF FRANCE......there is a map of the hundreds of villages that get this distinct honor....and when my hubby and I drive the back roads of France on our trips we try our best to plan our routes through these towns.......cannot begin to tell you the joy we have experienced seeing these lovely little hamlets, so undiscovered, and stopping for a pastry on a sidewalk cafe and meeting some locals. If you drive I think their map is a must......never will forget the apple pastry in Beuvron-en-Auge that afternoon and happening upon Gerberoy and its rose-covered homes late one afternoon. Loumarin is one and its cobblestone streets look like a postcard! Have fun....hope this has helped!!!!

Thank you for your post Jane. It sounds like we may be in France at the same time! I appreciate your input and will definitely incorporate some of your suggestions into our itinerary. I am so looking forward to being able to travel again. Thank you again. Kristine

Be sure to see the Bayeux tapestry. Far more to do and see in Normandy !

I would rent a car from Paris and return in Nice. It will be a lot of time on the road but worth it. You can visit Loire valley en route to Dordogne from Normandy and stop in Toulouse or Saint Tropez (or some smaller town in Provence -there are many places like in Luberon) from Dordogne. Note France is quite BIG so Dordogne to Nice will be a good 10 hours! Trains work really well in France so I would do that unless you are happy to drive (i personally love the freedom of driving).

Museums in Paris:
https://theparisshortlist.com/best-museums-in-paris/

Cooking classes in paris:
https://www.lefoodist.com/

I'm a bit nervous that the way you've listed your dates--with travel days attributed to two places when much (or all) of that time will be spent in transit so not actually in either one--is going to confuse some responders about how much time you'll have.

That is a rough transfer between Bayeux and the Dordogne. Driving the whole way would make for a long day and would have you blasting past some places very much worth seeing with no time to stop. The usual train route would certainly be back to Paris, then TGV to Bordeaux, then local train to Sarlat. That would take about as long as driving. Worse, there's a change of train stations required in Paris. You can create a rail routing that avoids Paris, but the trip will take longer. I don't think flying will ultimately save much time.

I'd try to reconfigure the itinerary to avoid that transfer. How about going straight to Bayeux on your arrival day by train, then to MSM (by car), then back to Paris for your time there? I'm not sure how to work Giverny in there unless you drive back from MSM through Giverny; I don't think that's necessarily a crazy idea. I wouldn't want to try to hit Giverny on my arrival day in Europe; I'd want to head as straight as possible to my first base city. Is Giverny an absolute must?

There's one rental-car agency in Bayeux, and there are quite a few near the train station in Caen, which is just a short train trip from Bayeux. With four people I'd definitely want to do the Bayeux-MSM transfer by either rental car or some sort of private transfer rather than public transportation.

You are allowing yourselves only three nights (two days) in the Dordogne, and you may be pretty tired your first day there after spending an entire day in transit. That's short given the number of things to do and the large number of charming villages and towns (car very handy here) in the Dordogne. If you're interested in markets you'll want to be sure you allow time on Wednesday or Saturday to take in the huge Sarlat market; you've scheduled yourself to be there on Wednesday, May 27. I was in Sarlat on a Wednesday (the smaller market) when it was pouring rain, and I still spent many hours wandering around. Personally, I'd want close to half a day in Sarlat even on a non-market day; I like to walk through the entirety of historic districts, and Sarlat's is large. So having just two days for the entire area seems painfully short to me. This is the part of your plan I'm worried about. It's the destination it will be most difficult to return to on a future trip.

Sarlat to St-Remy is another rough transfer--essentially all day even in your own car.

I'm not sure you're aware that St-Remy has no train station. It has decent bus service to Arles and Avignon, but for your plans I think you'll need a car during your stay there. You have a lot of targets for just three days, and not having to try to get 4 people to the bus station/stop for the trips to Arles and Avignon argues strongly, I think, for having a car the entire time.

Almost everyone seems to have Monaco on their list, but it seems that not very many people who've been there actually recommend it on this forum. I haven't been there myself and am sure I'd enjoy the gardens, but I don't think you have enough time in Nice for your entire wish list, so I'd suggest making Monaco your last priority while in that area.

May 24 is a national holiday, Whit Monday. I wouldn't think that would be much of an issue if that's your Sarlat-to-St-Remy transfer day.

You absolutely need a car in both the Dordogne and Provence, so I would just rent one in Bergerac or whatever station is near your base in the Dordogne, and return it to Avignon at the other end. This will also avoid you having to hire a driver to take you around the Luberon. Europcar is cheap, reliable and allows free one-way rentals.

Say in St-Remy or Vaison la Romaine if you like, but if you haven't had a look at L'Isle sur le Sorgue yet, do. Magical place, near to Avignon, Pont-du-Gard and the Luberon. Lots of nice villas to rent in the hills around the town.

4 nights in Paris is not much, but you may have been there before. You didn't include the Lourve or Versailles?

Definitely see the Bayeux Tapestry. Also, recommend reading the short book about the Tapestry that explains each panel (Book is 1066). The D-day beaches are a must as well as American Cemetery.

I like the suggestion from another poster to rent a car and stop in the Loire Valley on your way to Provence. We did the Loire Valley and stayed in Blois. You can see two chateaux per day. Suggest two days minimum.

Haven't been to Dordogne, but would have picked going to Bordeaux or the Carcassonne regions. There is always more to see on another trip.
You don't include Lyon, which is OK, but don't miss Vienne, Viviers, Avignon, Pont du Gard (intact 2000 year old Roman aqueduct). Arles and Les Baux. St. Paul de Vence is a must do. Monaco is worth a stop. Cannes is interesting for a stop.

Some random thoughts. . . Too much in your last 4 nights (3 days). Nice warrants at least a day. With the time to get there and back, St. Paul will take up another day. There are much more worthwhile places than Grasse and Monaco, e.g., Eze, or Cap Ferrat (Villa Ephrussi).
On our more recent trip to the Dordogne, we stayed at a wonderful b & b; super friendly hosts, fabulous breakfasts, optional gourmet dinners, beautiful setting, easy access to many sites in the area. I’ll see if I can dig up the name. If I do, I’ll pm you. Having a car in the Dordogne is a really good idea.

IMHO a car makes sense for four of you. You may want to price out a lease as insurance and second, third, and fourth drivers are included in the price. But they have a 21-day minimum.

Your itinerary is off because you aren't counting how many full days you have each place, along with the nights. For example, after driving on the 21st and 24th, you really have only two days to see the Dordogne. That's not worth the time you are spending to get there and then over to Provence. Paris you have the 15, 16, 17th, 3 full days.
May 24-30 gives you 5.5 days total in Provence before the short drive to the coast.

Itinerary: I'd start in Paris to get over jetlag. Not knowing how much any of you have traveled, or how any of you handle jetlag, I stick with this suggestion.
You should start the circle first in Bayeux, then Mont St. Michele. From MSM you can drive all day to the Dordogne or break it up with a night anywhere between Loches and Limoges. For this a car makes sense.

If you drop the Dordogne, which deserves much more time than 2 days, you could go straight to MSM where you pick up a car at Rennes station, which is large and has a good choice, and drop at Caen. This gives you your MSM night, followed by Bayeux and then back to Paris by Intercity train. You have to change train stations to get the TGV straight to the Avignon TGV station, where you rent another car to kep until after you've visited St. Paul de Vence.

In Provence, why not stay more central in Isle sur la Sorgue rather than moving from St. Remy to Vaison. Vaison, though very much worth visiting, is not along the Rhône but an hour away near Mt. Ventoux. It's 20 kilometers to any of the wine appellations. Hopefully you'll get a good tour to take you tasting.

I know of two cooking schools in English on the other side of the Rhône in Uzes, Not far from Pont du Gard: Le Pistou and Cook’n With Class.
Bon voyage.
Below someone mentioned renting at an airport: Orly which is due south is more convenient than backtracking to CDG which is east of the city, when you're going west.

What a fun trip to plan together!

For Paris, purchase the combo ticket for the Orangerie & D’Orsay. I’ve taken the croissant pastry class with La Cuisine Paris a few years ago and make croissants several times a year now.

We flew from Seattle to Paris and immediately took the train to Caen. I would recommend taking the train to Normandy immediately instead of beginning in Paris. Then you would have the chance to travel by train going south, or if you wanted to take it into the chateau area of the Loire valley and then take a car from there the next morning after seeing some of the chateau highlights.

Check when the evening light shows on cathedrals begin if traveling in May. I was there in late August & September and caught some during their last week.

In Nice, I think you would love the food tour I took last year. I’ll just add the link to my last trip, so I’m not rewriting the same info. There’s more info about Nice and the area in it.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/our-combined-solo-couple-vacation-in-france-2019

Hope we’re back to traveling in 2021!

When in Nice- skip Monaco and replace with Cap Ferrat/ Villa Ephrussi. St- Paul de Venice is high end art galleries and shops, not a quaint little town anymore. We loved Antibes! We spent two weeks in Nice and loved exploring this historic city.

If you start looking into the details of renting a car, you may find that the smaller towns don't have what you want (big enough for your whole group & luggage, and automatic transmission). Also, the rental agencies in smaller towns are not always open on the day & time when your itinerary puts you there, needing to pick up a car.

For those reasons you may end up having to rent from Paris -- and if you do that, I highly recommend picking up the car a the airport. We didn't do that, and we wasted more than an hour (plus a lot of stress) driving stop & go through the streets of Paris and near-in suburbs before we got to the Autoroute. Since your first destination is to the north, you'd want to pick up your car at CDG.

So after that last post comes the standard advice NOT to drive after an overnight flight when you'll probably be sleep-deprived and certainly unfamiliar with the roads. Hence the advice of others to either spend the first few days in Paris or take a train straight to Normandy via Paris (taxi to Gare St-Lazare, train to Caen or Bayeux, car from there).

Via Michelin shows about eight hours' driving time from Bayeux to Sarlat, with no time for Loire chateaux or other sights along the way. As acraven said, that's a tough day however you do it. I guess I'd rather keep the car and just drive than take a train back to Paris, change stations, and another train to Sarlat or nearby. I agree with others that the Dordogne deserves more time than you're giving it (no caves on your list?), and maybe you should save it for another trip. If so, you could train from Normandy back to Paris, then another train to the south where you'll be spending much time.

Three weeks seems like a long time, but basically you're trying to get from one corner of this Texas-sized country to the opposite corner and see a lot of places on the way. You must be experienced enough with European travel, and with each other, to decide how well you can pull that off.

FYI- Keep an eye on impending French labor/transportation strikes. We were caught in the big strike last December. [Almost all trains stopped running.] I was ignorant of the French labor situations, so never knew to check in advance .
Have a wonderful trip!

Two thoughts.

1) If you can go three or four days beyond 21 days, lease a car (21 day min.) for a number of reasons, starting with it comes insured to the hilt, they won't zing you $10 per day for every extra driver, it has a first rate GPS, and if you reserve an automatic, you will not have to fight the guy at the counter to get it. It will be what you reserved prepaid and there will be no surprises when you show up at the counter. What we do is fly into Paris, spend 3 nights to get acclimated and then take the RER back out to CDG. Get of at the First CDG stop and call the lease agent and tell them which hotel you will be sanding in front of and they will come get you. Do not go all the way to Terminal 2 and try to figure out a pick up point there ... been there, done that, it sucks. Remember the closest you want to drive in Paris is around the perimeter beltway.

2) A lot of good places to see have already been mentioned, I will only mention one. If you do get to Beynac, the nearby Chateau des Milandes is well worth a visit. It is a beautifully restored old chateau that was once owned by Josephine Baker and the story that goes with it is really unique ... made us feel good about being Americans.

Hope you are able to go in May 2021 as that means we should be able to go in Sept.2021. Have fun whenever.

My input on the Dordogne area....

Don't limit your lodging research to Sarlat. There are LOTS of B&Bs and airB&Bs in all sorts of nooks and crannies in the region. The last one I stayed at was a converted farmhouse run by two Belgian ex-pat chefs. OMG the food they prepared for breakfast and dinner. And with a car everything is a short, beautiful drive away. There's nothing wrong with Sarlat, but there are gems all over the place!

The car leasing & car logistics from Irv of Beverly Hills, MI is priceless. I will remember this in case we ever get to go again!

epltd: FYI depending on your destination, you can also pick up leased cars at Orly and the Port de St. Cloud in Paris, which has a périphérique entrance right there. It’s all one company no matter which middleman is used or which model ordered: TT car transit.

In the current emergency, some Paris institutions are strictly limiting capacity and requiring advance reservations. If that continues, you will be forced to commit to a rigid schedule for the city.