Help planning Provence visit

Hi Bill,

I traveled to Paris and Provence with my kids last summer they were 9, 12, and 14. Some things they enjoyed in Paris were the Eiffel tower (of course), the Napoleon/Army Museum, Luxembourg gardens, the Catacombs (!), and Notre Dame. We also visited d' Orsay, and Saint Chapelle and walked a ton. We were in Paris that time for 3 ½ days. For me 4 days is enough to see all the things I want when Paris is part of a longer stay. We usually stay in airbnb's because its most cost effective for 5 and bc its nearly impossible to find a hotel room that holds 5 ppl.

Figure out if taking the train or driving is faster to Provence (I can't remember). If you train, you can rent a car at the station in Provence. You will need a car in Provence! It is large and spread out. One option is to have 2 bases, 1 for each half of the week you are there. Perhaps one further north and one south (Vaison Romain and St. Remy for example), or one west and one east (Nimes and in the Luberon). But first, you must do some reading and figure out what you want to do and see in Provence. You will find yourself ruling out a lot and narrowing your plans. The Luberon has some great biking if you choose to rent bikes, and there are various areas with swimming, which our kids liked, even if just to play in the stream/river in Vaison after seeing the ruins. Here's what we did (we were in Provence for 4 days in early July):

We came into Provence from the West bc we drove through s.w. France first. We stayed in L' Il sur la Sorgue. The first day, en route there, we stopped at Pont du garde for a few hours. The swimming was the focus, There were a lot of people swimming and cliff jumping, so expect to spend more time than just viewing the aqeuduct. And August will be hot so water/swimming will be an appreciated break for your kids.

Once in L'Il sur-- we made day trips to surrounding places (and Im spelling these all wrong bc Im not looking at book right now ;) such as Roussignon, Vaison de la Romaine, Abbey Senaque, St. Remy and the castle ruins near there (named? ack...) etc etc. There were many places people frequent that we did not choose to visit, thus you need to read. I suggest getting a book just on Provence from the library - you'll get more detailed info that way (than from a book on general France).

Hope that helps,
Jessica

If you are spending that much time in Provence (which I heartily endorse), you will need to rent a car there. With a car you can get out into the countryside, stay anywhere, make your own schedule. Take the TGV from Paris, it's only 3 hours.

I don't think there is any one set list of attractions for kids your age. What do they like?

Thanks to you both for the feedback.
The kids I think will enjoy smaller towns rather than large ones (we are already subjecting them to Paris after all...). So charming towns/smaller cities with good cultural and site seeing opportunities (ruins/castles/old buildings) and good city center vibe.
If we train from Paris, what city does it take me to before renting a car? Are there a couple towns you'd all recommend as base camps/ and other must see towns?
Would you then also suggest i keep a rental car and perhaps turn it in at Chamonix? Seems maybe making it all the way down to the riviera is not realistic in a week's time so focus on Provence hill towns?

Spent a week in Provence area. stayed in Beames de Venise. Stayed about 10 minutes out of town in a house with a swimming pool among the olive trees and vineyards. Took day trips each day to the hill towns(Gordes, Rousillion etc.), Avignon, Pont du Gard, Orange, Ile sur la Sorgue,
None of our day trips were over an hour away.
Orange has a wonderfully preserved amphitheater the kids might like,
The Pont Du Gard is a huge Roman aqueduct over the Gard River. You can visit the aqueduct on land or via the river. You can tube the Gard River and you go right under the aqueduct.
Ile sur La Sorgue has an outstanding Sunday market. Everything from mattresses and pots and pans to local food and produce.
Beames has a small downtown, with bakeries, small grocery stores, restaurants and an olive mill. Many wineries nearby.

I'd take the fast train. Paris to Avignon. Pick up a car in Avignon. It is 2.5 hours via fast train versus 6 hours in the car to Avignon. Then decide if you want to drive to Chamonix after a week in Provence or you want to take the train. Checked a random day in August and tickets for two children and two adults Gare de Lyon in Paris to Avignon 72 euros or about $90. Trip time 2 hours 40 minutes. You could select a 4 seat booth upstairs or downstairs. Sounds like fun for kids. Pack yourself a picnic and ride the train.

Thanks everyone for the great comments. So I'm not hearing anyone suggest that I should be trying to make it down to the Riviera as well. That's fine, just wanted to confirm that that would be too much distance in the time allotted.
I like the idea that some of you suggested that we find perhaps two different towns to act as a Provence base camp for say three days each. Then we do day trips to sites and towns from each of those locations. Given that, what two towns would you all consider as being some of the best base camp options?
Mr. Steve's certainly has his opinions, but I'd like to hear yours as well.

Regarding rental cars, the Avignon TGV station has several rental agencies and LOTS of automatics.

Regarding driving in France, if you end up making that choice: I would recommend you learn and memorize the speed limits for various types of roads and follow the limits. Here is a graphic that summarizes them: https://blogautomobile.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lim.10.jpg. The reason is that, as with many things in France, you're supposed to know the rules. Speed limits often are not marked and, when they are, speed signs tend to be few and far between. That's a "benefit" of having national standards on speeds depending on type of road.

A few points of explanation:

The first row with the red "A" is for new drivers "jeune conducteur" in their first three years of driving. They're supposed to put a letter "A" sticker on the back of their car and drive at a slower speed on some roads. This won't apply to you. The other lines do.

The second row is for dry weather

The third row is for rainy or snowy weather

The small print at the bottom indicates that the maximum speed is 50 kilometers per hour when visibility (fog, heavy mist or snow) limits visibility to 50 meters or less.

The first column is the speed in towns (unless specifically marked otherwise -- you'll sometimes see 70 or 30). Although there may be no sign, the moment you pass the familiar sign indicating the town name in black letters on a white sign with a red rectangle around it, that's the speed limit until you exit the town (also marked with the same sign as entering except with a slash through it).

The second column is for any road outside a town where there is no physical separation between lanes traveling in opposite directions. These typically are "D" (departmental) or "N" (national) roads, which are, respectively, comparable to county highways (D) and either state or U.S. highways (N) in the U.S. As of July 1 of this year, these speeds will be reduced by 10 kilometers per hour according to a new law aimed at reducing fatalities on these kinds of roads. So, top to bottom, the values will be 70, 80, and 70 as of July 1, 2018.

The third column is for roadways where there's a physical separation between opposing lanes (usually either a median or a permanent concrete barrier. These most commonly are "N" roads.

The last column is for Autoroutes, which are similar to Interstate highways in the U.S., and commonly (but not always) have tolls. Because they're usually tollways, exits are rare (it costs a lot to build an exit and a pay station). So -- pay attention to your exits, or you may have a long way to drive until you reach the next one.

All of the above are the standard speeds. In areas where there's a history of accidents, the authorities may post lower speeds than those contained in the standard. You have to pay attention.

Lastly 3 points of advice:

1. Don't speed. Although human patrols are rare (compared to the U.S.), radar installations with cameras are not. Getting tickets is a common thing to those who speed.

2. If you follow my advice in point (1), you will be tailgated. Hell, you'll probably be tailgated anyway -- it's the French pastime. But even if you are tailgated while going the legal maximum, don't speed. The other drivers are locals and know where the radar cameras are. You aren't, you won't, and consequently you would be far more likely to get a ticket than they are because of that.

3. As an artifact of the standard speed approach, especially on small "D" roads in the countryside, the marked 90 kph speed (soon to be 80) may be too fast for conditions (narrow road, sharp curves, blind curves, and so on). So, just because you hypothetically can legally go that fast, you shouldn't. Even if the locals are doing it. They would know, for example, that there's a long straightaway beyond that blind curve and so they take it fast. You, on the other hand, wouldn't know that there's a much tighter curve beyond your blind curve with a 200-meter drop off and no guard rail.

My family and I did a similar trip in 2015. As part of it I put together a drive time matrix of Provence to help plan and decide on a home base. I can send it to you via email, but cannot attach files to the forum. If you are interested, send me a private message with your email address.

In the 3.5 week trip, my kids enjoyed Chamonix the most. It is a great place to be. Enjoy!

Hi again,
I've been spending some more time on our Provonce itinerary. I'm thinking if we did two base camps, the first could be in Arles after training down to and getting car in avignon. but then where for the second three or so days? Somewhere east, maybe luberon area?
And would it be possible to day trip to the riviera from our second base camp or is that too far for a day?
Thanks!
Bill

Bill, I suspect you'd need to select your Provencal base pretty carefully to make a day-trip to the Riviera practical, and even then I'm not sure. Nice and Antibes would both be about a 3-hour drive from Menerbes (selected randomly, and probably farther east than you'll end up staying).

If you're looking for a coastal experience, you might consider Cassis. It has been well and truly discovered, but then again, so has the Riviera.

Another possibility (not on the coast at all) would be to drive through the hills to Moustiers-Sainte-Marie and the Gorges du Verdon. I haven't made it there (it's quite difficult by public transportation), but it sounds lovely. I'm a great believer in taking full advantage of a rental car by seeing some of the tough-to-get-to spots. This would still be a substantial drive from Provence, just probably about half an hour closer than the Riviera.

All of your travel times may be affected by traffic, of course. I looked at ViaMichelin's estimates, which folks seem to think are optimistic, though generally more accurate than Google's. There have been recent comments about inaccurate routing information on ViaMichelin, incidentally.

Yes, the Riviera may look close to the Luberon, but there are lots of hills in the way and it's slow going.

You may not need 2 bases at all. If you would like to spend a lot of time in the Luberon as well as the Rhone Valley, though, two bases makes sense.

"subjecting them to Paris"

Sorry - couldn't let this go. Your kids are incredibly lucky to be going to Paris and then Provence and Chamonix. My parents took me to Quebec when I was around 8 and it gave me both lifelong memories and a desire to learn French. I think Arles would make a great base and then a smaller town in the Luberon.

Have a great trip and have fun planning it!

Dorothy,
Fair comment, that didn't come out right.
What I'm meant was paris is a huge city and my kids likely won't want to spend time in another after being exhausted (in a good way) by Paris.
We will all be ready for some small hill towns after that!